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Stahlseele
OK how does this work exactly?
The BLIND Flaw has it explicitly written, that Cyber-Eyes do NOT help with that.
The COLOR-BLIND flaw mentions no such Problem.
And if i understood Biology correctly, colour-blindness is a purely physical flaw in the eyes, right?
So replacing them should allow for Colour-Vision.
And if that does not work, then there's allways Technicolor, where a software would either color images or simply label images with "green";"blue";"red";ugly" and so on . .
With the Technology of Shadowrun, that does not sound too far feteched i think O.o
Yerameyahu
Color-Blind is a flaw? It shouldn't be.

And only the 'strong' version of Blind [Reduced Sense (Sight)] isn't cured by cyber-eyes. The 'weak' version is perfectly fixable.
Stahlseele
Well, at least in SR3, there is a Flaw named Color Blind for -1 Point and a possible Choice for the Flaw an Albino has to take in generation.
And there are only two kinds of the same BLIND flaw. One for NON MAGICAL for -6 Points and one for MAGICAL -2 Points, as they can use Astral Perception instead . .
None of which are cureable by cyber-eyes, at least under SR3.
Mooncrow
Yera means the Reduced (Sense) from RC. (at least, I assume so)
Yerameyahu
Oh, SR3. smile.gif I didn't realize. Add the SR3 tag, dude!
Doc Chase
Colorblindness should be fixable by cyberware since it's a rod/cone deficiency in the eyes, IIRC. Replace them and it's just training the brain to know that color is color.
Mooncrow
Actually, at least the 3rd printing of the Revised Companion has the same wording as Blind for Color Blind, ie. not fixable with cyber.

QUOTE ( Shadowrun Companion @ Revised, 3rd Printing, page 19)
Note that Color Blind results from a neural dysfunction and cannot be cured with cyber-replacement eyes. Characters cannot take both Blind and Color Blind.
Malbur
If the condition is limited to the eyes (as I believe you were correct in saying) then by replacing the eyes, the character would no longer be color blind. The only stipulation I would see with that however is if the character had lived their entire lives being color blind and then suddenly have this change to see colors as they should be, they might have to go under therapy in order to transition to it. Much like those ear implants that let deaf people hear require years of therapy before they can understand the sounds they are hearing... That make sense?
sabs
I thought that disabilities that gave you bonus points could not be fixed with cyber/bioware.. unless you paid them back.
Otherwise, you got points for free.
Yerameyahu
I think Mooncrow pretty much nailed it down. smile.gif
Stahlseele
QUOTE (sabs @ Sep 29 2010, 10:26 PM) *
I thought that disabilities that gave you bonus points could not be fixed with cyber/bioware.. unless you paid them back.
Otherwise, you got points for free.

'tis true, but in the case of the albino for example, you're not getting points for it . .
It's an mandatory flaw you can chose for being an albino. the least intrusive one too.

As it's just -1 point, it's basically a flavour flaw that can be gotten rid of after the first or second run usually . .
even if you have to pay points x 10 in karma, after 2 or maximum 3 runs, you can have that karma in there.
for the time to get a gene.therapy for example. or getting your eyes surgically fixed with cloned eyes without defects.
or for getting a fitting pair of cyber.eyes. and of course, you would still have the monetary cost too . .
color blind gives -1 points in generation, and in SR3, money did not scale linearly to point cost, so it's kinda hard to figure out points/money.
but with 0 points in ressources, your character has 5000 nuyen to spend on stuff in generation allready . .

But if in the last printing it's really described like the normal blind flaw, than i guess this point is now moot.
jakephillips
QUOTE (sabs @ Sep 29 2010, 03:26 PM) *
I thought that disabilities that gave you bonus points could not be fixed with cyber/bioware.. unless you paid them back.
Otherwise, you got points for free.

right then you can pay the karma to pay it off. Spirit and letter of the rules.
sabs
Sure
Nothing wrong with that.
Semerkhet
QUOTE (Mooncrow @ Sep 29 2010, 03:18 PM) *
Actually, at least the 3rd printing of the Revised Companion has the same wording as Blind for Color Blind, ie. not fixable with cyber.

Except that wording completely contradicts how most types of color-blindness work. Inherited color-blindness results from a lack of certain types of photoreceptors in the retina and not a neural dysfunction in the brain. Which, to me, means that replacing the eyes solves the problem. Of course, I'd require the bonus points to be bought off by the player in question.

The neural dysfunction they're talking about sounds like the much more rare condition of Visual Agnosia or other perceptual problems resulting from brain injury.
Mooncrow
QUOTE (Semerkhet @ Sep 30 2010, 11:39 AM) *
Except that wording completely contradicts how most types of color-blindness work. Inherited color-blindness results from a lack of certain types of photoreceptors in the retina and not a neural dysfunction in the brain. Which, to me, means that replacing the eyes solves the problem. Of course, I'd require the bonus points to be bought off by the player in question.

The neural dysfunction they're talking about sounds like the much more rare condition of Visual Agnosia or other perceptual problems resulting from brain injury.


Well, I guess you could say that the common type of color blindness isn't worth any extra points - only the rare form is.
Dahrken
If you were born with the defect, you probably lack the neural connexions to process that new information if you get color-sensitive cybereys as an adult. Experiments on cats raised in an environment without horizontal lines have shown that beyond a young age - IIRC one or two month - it was too late for the animal to develop a normal visual perception even if put back in a normal environment.

While this can probably be adressed by SR4 medical technology, this is likely to take time, drugs and money beyond what would be required for a user with normal color perception to begin with.
Semerkhet
QUOTE (Dahrken @ Sep 30 2010, 12:07 PM) *
If you were born with the defect, you probably lack the neural connexions to process that new information if you get color-sensitive cybereys as an adult. Experiments on cats raised in an environment without horizontal lines have shown that beyond a young age - IIRC one or two month - it was too late for the animal to develop a normal visual perception even if put in a normal environment.

While this can probably be adressed by SR4 medical technology, this is likely to take time, drugs and money beyond what would be required for a user with normal color perception to begin with.

Sounds reasonable.

I think that the normal procedure for those in the SR world that have access to high quality medicare care would be a 'retinal modification' in which stem cells (hand-waving here) are implanted in the retina and then instructed to grow into the missing types of cone cells. Another handwaving solution: since most color blindness results from a genetic disorder, gene therapy could be used to modify the patient's genome so that they start producing the missing cone cells on their own.

Anyway, back to rule considerations, if a player takes points for color-blindness at chargen and then later has it corrected by any means you should make them buy off the negative trait with karma.
CanRay
You know, with the "Reality Noir" patch, cybereyes would allow a person to see in just black and white.

Possibly red in overly vivid detail. nyahnyah.gif
Semerkhet
QUOTE (CanRay @ Sep 30 2010, 02:26 PM) *
You know, with the "Reality Noir" patch, cybereyes would allow a person to see in just black and white.

Possibly red in overly vivid detail. nyahnyah.gif

I'm 100% sure there is a CARE overlay for that. No cybereyes needed.
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