okay, this might be a no brainer, but that is kinda where i am at this morning(the no brain part).
So, say a rigger is hopped in VR in a doberman, simple action to pull the trigger on the lmg it has mounted?
Or is it a complex action?
I noticed in the combat chapter it mentions drivers and passengers needing a complex action to
fire a vehicle mounted weapon,
sadly, i am not sure if that applies to riggers shooting mounted weapons through VR.

thanks ahead of time, i tried to coherently type this out,
if there are issues reading the jumbled mess, i apologize, and now go back to drinking coffee.

it's a complex action for a Drone to fire it's weapons
It doesn't matter wether it's doing it by itself or with a Rigger"inside"

HougH!
Medicineman

thank you much for the response Medicineman
I thought as much, but i wanted to make sure before
i jumped to a conclusion.

Yeah, which is why many riggers go ahead and mostly do actions that are complex to begin with, like long bursts.




-k

Yeah. Almost no point in not firing full-auto as a rigger. Which makes you wonder why some of the vehicle mounted weapons are SA.

Well now that's answered is the complex action per weapon or for all? I've always been hazzy on that.

One Weapon = one complex action

with one Dance
Medicineman

Couldn't you send one command to multiple drones at the same time? If that's the case how exactly would that work out in combat? One fires then the other(s) fire right after?

That's a diffrent type of action.

You always send 1 command to all your drones at the same time unless you do some interesting things with slaving commlinks and multiple subscriptions. Each drone fires their weapon, and it's resolved on the drones individual initiative pass.

...while the Gunnery section (4A p. 171) says the kind of action depends on the weapon used. I prefer the latter version, because neither ingame logic nor metagaming balance provide a good reason why drones should only fire half as fast as the average samurai.


@WyldKnight: You send one command to the drones on your action, when the drones' time to act has come they execute it.

Ah thanks, I want to run a rigger some day but the rules confuse me every once and a while.

That blurb on p171 also says that, "in almost all cases vehicle weapons require a Complex Action to fire." I have no idea when they don't, but 'almost all' doesn't sound like you should ever *assume* otherwise.

Not strictly RAW of course, but I'd rule that a semi-auto weapon fired by remote with no sensor lock-on could be considered a simple action if the target was zeroed-in beforehand. For instance a grenade turret fired from a parked van into a window to provide smoke cover, or a Pilot-equipped sniper rifle pointed at a door while the rigger waits for the target to come out. When you've lined up a shot and are basically just pulling the trigger, why should it be Complex, for the drone or the character?

No idea, but there's no logic to any of it in the first place. Drones get automatic extra IPs, so it's not really a hardship. Things are apparently balanced for Complex Actions, so I'd want to know exactly what the writers meant by 'almost all cases'. :/

Depends on how you define "vehicle weapons", as any weapon mounted on a vehicle, or just the big guns specifically designed for vehicles.

I'd say that a jumped-in rigger should be able to fire with the same actions as a regular character (SA and BF as simple, FA and SF as complex.) He's supposed to "be the drone" so that would make some sense. Also it would give one reason (there are no others) to actually jump in with a control rig rather than just RC the slag.

I would agree with that. If it's a pre-programmed route / action it should be simple. The drone is aiming at a stationary thing.

The rifle at a door thing is a little trickier since the target is moving once the door is opened. I'd probably give the blind fire rules for that since you are basically relying on luck to hit the target.

Additionally, autonomous drones don't actually use Gunnery to fire.
Autosofts replicate -weapon- skills, such as automatics, heavy weapons, etc.
Kinda silly, huh?

Pistol DRONES! mwahahahahaha

And AI's/cyborges get to use gunnary for any weapon they picked up while rigged from rock-to-tac nuke as long as its a weapon being used they get it melee to.

Only for mounted weapons. If they have normal arms and using normal weapons in their hands, they need the real skills.

No they don't. Unless an errata sliped by me. If they have real arms they can use real skills for no real purpose bar RP.

Edit:

Hm? Wha... the... wha?

I just looked into my book for that. You are right... there it is... Well... it is one of those "BULLSHIT" rules. (Those rules where i as a gm say: Yeah, maybe... but it is bullshit)

This totally makes no sense. Even the "Gunnery for all mounted weapons" is stretching it. No Cyborg in my game runs around with using Gunnery for all, as are AI and jumped-in-riggers. If they use nor hardmounted weapons they have to know how to. Point-and-click only goes so far.

It says AI can/do use the Cyborg rules. Gunnery becoem the most uber skill ever the only issue is that agility is maxed at 6(7)+ handling. Also you can start a borge char with 5ips plus they have vechcal armour. They make the most insane gunbunnys. Even if every attack is a complex action (maybe as RAW say they don't have to be). Basicly you get 5 meat ips a low skill need and rating 5 skill wires plus the ability in the right body to just eat anythign in a fight. What with immunity to mana spells. Only direct spells can hit you had they need to be at least force 5 to pass your OR and DV 10 to do any damage. Think the worse troll tank then remove the stun track. They might not be immortal but they are powerful. On a side not its mechanicaly dum to lower your adtributes and than not take a negative quality as with adtributes cost new rating x5 and the min they can go being 1 you playign 10 karma to remove a negative quality or 10+ karma to raise that attribute.

Annd... Gunnery is not a Combat Skill. It's a Vehicle Skill.

So in the places where Combat Skills are restricted or cost more X for whatever, Gunnery isn't affected.




-k

But all uses of it are Complex Actions. Now it seems fairer? What a mess.

Inderect combat spell work wonders on them, what with not having to worry about OR.
Something like Melt drones is pretty nasty against cyborgs.

They by RAW still have to deal with OR and vehical amour. You can dispute this say it's not RAI I may or may not agree but all the book says is (paraphrasing) all spells effecting inaimimate/noneorgainic tragets have to beat it's OR. Also inderect spells' damage is resisted by armour.

There's a thread about it running right now. So melatonin drones isn't too good. In fact with the armour you can get. Indirect spells will need to me high force as well. The reall down side is for cyborges they are insta killed my blackhammer. But I guess high matrix deffence os a high prority for them any way.

Cyborgs tend to be elite level hackers on top of everything else.




-k

Yeah but they have NO physical track its instant overflow. Even as good hackers they need to soak/dodge all black hammer attacks. They such at threar its worth crash spaming the program.

Just to point out. When it stated Complex used for most mounted weapons...it was referring to vehicle weapons not LMG or smaller. According to the way its stated, you use normal actions for what the gun can do for shooting.

Normal rules for Pilot controlled drones.

Complex for "Command" drones

Normal rules combat for "jump-in" (simple to complex)

For BIG guns or missile launchers you use Complex

I don't think it's obvious that that's the case, Night Jackal. For one thing, there *are* no 'vehicle weapons' in SR4A, only Arsenal. Heavy Weapons (including missile launchers) are just Simple Action personal firearms in SR4A.

What? Yes they do. They specifically have damage compensators -for- soaking rigging biofeedback damage.

In fact, the brains have Stun(8+half WP) AND physical (8+half body).

And then their cyborg vehicle body has Physical(8+half body) but no stun.

The point i'm unsure of is whether they get to count their cyborg body as their own body for purposes of the brains track or not.