So,
I am working on a new character for a street game, where we will be running a gang.
I was thinking of having my guy have skills in chemistry (spec drugs), and he'll be cooking drugs for use and sale

So, considering that a dose of Cram cost 10 , how much do the materials to make it cost?

Since this is an amphetamine, I am assuming you cook it much like you would meth... so, it can't be all that spendy...

Ideas?

Figure three 100% mark-ups before it gets to the end customer, plus margin for manufacturer. Eyeball it at 1/10 of the street price in LARGE batches with a steady production schedule, so 1 nuyen/dose. Sell for 1.25 nuyen/dose out of the beaker. Or pursue whatever vertical integration you are willing to incurr the costs, risks, and hassle for.

EDIT: If you (your fellow players) envision a more compacted, cutthroat market, say only a tier or two of resellers being typical with cram being REALLY easy to make and sell from small batches, then you are probably looking at a much higher percentage for raw materials vs street price. Basically think 25% return for the cooker if they don't have to worry much about procuring the materials or moving the product.

What kind of income is the GM interested in you rolling for? How much play time and focus are they and the rest of the players interested in investing in this scheme?

According to Arsenal (p78 onward) you need to

A. have a Formula (Data Search + Browse Extended, threshold of Compounds availability) with the same legality rating as the drug
B. Ingredients have same availability as the compound, and are usually 1/10th price
C. You need either a chemistry Kit (500nuyen), Shop(5k), or Facility(100k) to produce it in, otherwise you get eh Inadequate modifier if you're just say, using kitchen tools.

Compound runs Chem+Logic extended (1 hr) With a threshold of either 4, 8, 12, or 16+ depending on the drug is then required. Cram is probably 8 or 12. A kit will produce 1 dose per test, shop will produce 10 and the highest level will produce 50.

Depending the tools required, you may be unable to make something at all (that is, more than just taking the Inadequate penalty).

You shouldn't really be able to make any significant income. It's a plot element at best.

I'd allow it in a MacGuyver, 'I've got a piece of string and some rock candy and I need to make a distraction' sitation.

I mean, 'small time drug pushers' could be a fun plot. There are many tasks for runners: fight off competitors, deal with bosses, negotiate with suppliers, recruit dealers, etc. It just shouldn't be an easy way to get money. If you want some income with the hassles the taken out, get Day Job: Drugger.

Didn't we just have this discussion in another thread...a lot like this one?

Of course we did. This is Dumpshock.

Madness is about three miles down the road. Sparta's on the other side of the block.

And the GM has LoneStar/Knight Errant raid your cram producing lab within the first 5 sessions

Psh, that's only if you survive the criminal elements attacking you first.

Anyway: Cram is definitely Intricate (it's an example), so it requires a Shop and has Threshold 12.

With street drugs, there's no certainty that the ingredients are cheaper than the final product. Try making your own heroine from scratch some time- finding enough opium (in the USA) to do it will be hard. Same for cocaine vs coca leaves.

That said, amphetamines can be synthesized, and (especially with the law enforcment balkinization resulting from extra-territoriality) chances are good that feed stocks could be acquired through gray and black market sources. Hell, the corps probably hand out various "smart drug" amphetamines like candy to corp employees and their student children. Start with those, work some molecular magic....
So yah, for amphetamine derived drugs, maybe 1/10 the cost makes sense. ou'll need some good contacts, or to con / rob a lot of drugstore / mail order / hospital pharmacies, etc. A good hacker would be a HUGE asset there.

Honestly though, this is the sort of thing "Negative Quality: Day Job (underground cram chemist)" exists for.

Thanks for all the help, guys... I'll be checking it out in Arsenal, etc.

Well, considering we are a street gang, this seemed a good way to go (and a cheap way to source our combat drugs!)

I'll have to check out that negative quality... not 100% sure it would make sense in our context, but if the GM allows it....

I am fully planning on buying a shop (since we are capped at 115K , it will be really tough to get a facility. That can be a goal for the future. I am expecting to have the proper contacts (such as my source for supplies).


So, with my Logic 4, Chemistry 4 (+2 Drugs), it will likely take me 4 hours to make 10 doses of Cram. I am a little surprised that Cram is the highest difficulty, when it seems to be less effective in many ways as Jazz or Kamikaze, but perhaps the long duration is the cause?


Also, I didn't see a place in SE4A where it described how long it took for drugs to take effect... I am probably just missing it, or is it somewhere else?

It's not the *highest*, because there's Exotics above that. Basically all street drugs are in the same boat as Cram, although some could be lower or higher. If you're (mostly) just supplying your group, that's a perfectly good use of this. Don't forget that a facility is a *facility*; how many street gangs have this:

And facilities are expensive.

As a GM
I would let someone make cram for the same cost per dose as in the book.
I just would give him a break on the availability.

Well, sabs, they did buy the shop. I'd give them a break (possibly less than the suggested 1/10), as long as they followed the other rules. After all, they still need to get those Restricted supplies, and keep anyone from noticing. And they'll all get addicted and die soon anyway.

Yerameyahu - I was only planning on starting with a shop... those aren't so spendy.

As this is likely going to be one of the main ways our little street gang is making money, we may need to upgrade as we have the chance... that being said... 100K is pretty steep... especially if the shop will be only netting a few thousand per month...

I am planning on taking some pretty hefty contacts, including a pharmaceutical rep, and probably someone in the mafia, for sources of supplies. Thinking about it, we are probably going to produce less Cram, and more of the stuff that cannot be used against us (like eX, and other party drugs). We figure that the profit margin is pretty good, and there should be a pretty good demand for it all.

Of course, that means we'll need to keep our fellow gang members from using up all of our stock

I am assuming that it requires a shop per person - so if we want multiple people producing stuff, we'll need more than one shop. That's fine, just thinking out loud, so to speak.

Even if we have to get the supplies at 25% of sale cost, or even 50%, I am going this route... should make for some interesting RP stuff, and is definitely a way to go. Now, if we were talking about a "normal" shadowrunning game, I would probably not bother... but we are doing more of a street level game. This is a good way, as I see it, for us to make a constant income. Plus, we'll have to defend our shop from rivals trying to rob it, or put it out of business.