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BRodda
Just a little breakdown of mans best friend. The rules for running wild are a bit to “one size fits all”. If people find this usefull I might stat up a large group of these dogs. I'm working on the more "Street" dogs next (pitbull, mastiff and bulldog).

Chihuahua
Chihuahuas are small dogs from the Chihuahua area of Mexico. They are small, but aggressive dogs able to scare off much larger animals with there aggressive displays. Chihuahuas were used in the sacred rituals as they were considered holy in pre-Columbian Indian nations and with the resurgence of magic they are considered highly prized pets in Atzalaner society. This has lead to the breed falling slightly out of favor with some groups of socity. However their small size still makes them popular for people who want pets, but have limited space.


Chihuahua
Cost: 500-2000 nuyen.gif
Availability: 9
Attributes:
Body: 1
Agility: 2
Reaction: 3
Strength: 1
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 1
Willpower: 4
Magic: 0
Edge: 0
Init: 6
IP:1

Movement: 10/45
Skills: Perception 2, Intimidation 2, Unarmed Combat 1
Powers: Enhanced Senses (Smell)
Weaknesses: Fragile 1
Note: Reach –1. Stats can also can be used for Pomeranian.



Newfoundland
The Newfoundland is a large breed of dog. Newfoundlands can be black, brown, grey, or black and white (Landseer). They were originally bred and used as a working dog for fishermen in Newfoundland, Canada. They are famously known for their giant size and tremendous strength, sweet dispositions, and loyalty. Newfoundland dogs excel at water rescue, due to their great muscles and their webbed feet and acute swimming abilities. Newfoundland dogs require daily (possibly every 2 days) brushing with a hard brush.

Newfoundland
Cost: 200-500 nuyen.gif
Availability: 12
Attributes:
Body: 2
Agility: 2
Reaction: 2
Strength: 3
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 1
Willpower: 3
Magic: 0
Edge: 0
Init: 6
IP:1

Movement: 10/45
Skills: Perception 2, Swimming 3, Unarmed Combat 1
Powers: Enhanced Senses (Smell), Climate Adaptation (Arctic), Water Sprite
Weaknesses: Unusual Hair (Requires daily brushing)


Greyhound
The Greyhound is a breed of sighthound that has been primarily bred for coursing game and racing. With the fragmenting of society after the Awakening greyhound racing is again a popular sport, especially in the Barrens or other areas where there gambling is common. The dogs have a combination of long, powerful legs, deep chest, flexible spine and slim build allow it to reach average race speeds of in excess of 65 KPH.

Greyhound
Cost: 100-400 nuyen.gif
Availability: 6
Attributes:
Body: 1
Agility: 3
Reaction: 4
Strength: 1
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 1
Willpower: 3
Magic: 0
Edge: 0
Init: 6
IP:1

Movement: 15/60
Skills: Perception 2, Running 3, Unarmed Combat 1
Powers: Enhanced Senses (Smell), Celerity
Weaknesses: Fragile 1
Note: Reach –1.


Sixgun_Sage
Looks good but it might be a good idea to take a look at the mental attributes, maybe raising intuition in th case of the newfoundlands for example.
BRodda
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Oct 11 2010, 02:24 PM) *
Looks good but it might be a good idea to take a look at the mental attributes, maybe raising intuition in th case of the newfoundlands for example.


I'm saving that for some of the "smarter" dogs I guess. Beagles and so forth. I tried to take the outside cases first. Newfies have such HUGE advantages already it is nearly sick. But I guess that is why I thought to stat them out, as there is a much bigger variation then Running Wild's single entry. And lets face it dogs are some of the animals that runners run into the most.
sabs
Shouldn't the Chihuahua have an Intuition of 1 or 2? and a Charisma of 1?

BRodda
QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 11 2010, 02:32 PM) *
Shouldn't the Chihuahua have an Intuition of 1 or 2? and a Charisma of 1?


I hate to say it, but they are pretty sharp. The slightest things tend to set them off (from what I have seen). Also they tend to be uber-cute and cuddly to people they like. And Intimidation is charisma based. grinbig.gif

Didn't want to stray to much from the RAW for dogs.
sabs
Every Chihuahua I've ever dealt with was mean, stupid, and about as lovable as a rat.

But you know
your mileage may vary

BRodda
QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 11 2010, 01:43 PM) *
Every Ork I've ever dealt with was mean, stupid, and about as lovable as a rat.

But you know
your mileage may vary


Heee.. Sorry, but that is what my brain translated it into... rotfl.gif
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (BRodda @ Oct 11 2010, 02:29 PM) *
I'm saving that for some of the "smarter" dogs I guess. Beagles and so forth. I tried to take the outside cases first. Newfies have such HUGE advantages already it is nearly sick. But I guess that is why I thought to stat them out, as there is a much bigger variation then Running Wild's single entry. And lets face it dogs are some of the animals that runners run into the most.



Newfies are a fairly smart breed, very energetic but clever as all get out, I'm saying this as someone who has worked with a lot of differant dogs. While they are very playful and that gives the impression of "dumb, loveable" dog it isn't accurate.
Mongoose
Mind if I take a crack at the Pitbull? I own one, and would rather not see negative myths perpetuated. I'll try to keep them in line with your stat- if they seem a bit high, well, I'm biased. But you do see a lot of crazy agile pitbulls. They maybe should have reach -1 like other dogs, but seem just on the edge size wise, and given how well they can jump...

BTW, shouldn't dogs in general all have "Enhanced Senses (Hearing)"?

Pit Bull
The term "Pit Bull" applies to several similar breeds of dog, all derived from the English Bulldog in an effort to produce a lighter breed that would be easier to handle in cramped "sporting" fight pits. The breed was also popular as a family dog, until roughly 100 years ago. They retain the heavy body of the bulldog (much slimmed in many cases) but have longer legs, resulting in an athletic build that runs from wirey to bulky. Most breeds have a relatively broad head, with naturally floppy ears and long tail.
Pure breeds rarely exceed 35 Kg in weight. The stats below reflect a pure breed raised as a house pet. Sadly, pit bulls are popular as templates for canine warforms, in which case they often reach 70 Kg due to growth hormones, steroids, implants, and breed mixing / gene splicing.

Pit Bull
Cost: 100-1000 ¥ (typically vet bills and adoption fees if not bought from breeder; special licenses may be required in some areas, driving up cost.)
Availability: 2 (go to the pound, or look in the freeway median)

Attributes:
Body: 1
Agility: 3 (*)
Reaction: 4
Strength: 2 (*)
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 2
Logic: 1
Willpower: 4
Magic: 0
Edge: 0
Init: 6
IP:1

Movement: 10/45
Skills: Athletics 1, Unarmed Combat 1, Intimidation 3, Gymnastics 1
Powers: Enhanced Senses (Smell), Pain Tolerance (1)

* Depending on breeding, add EITHER +1 Strength OR +1 Agility
Manunancy
QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 11 2010, 08:43 PM) *
Every Chihuahua I've ever dealt with was mean, stupid, and about as lovable as a rat.

But you know
your mileage may vary


I've seen one who wasn't - in a restaurant, the next table had an elderly couple and their chichuahua. It was perfectly well behaved during the whole time, without a single ylep or display of agitation.

I think that the breed's repute stems from most owners doting on the little buggers and turning them into the doggy equivalent of an ignorant spoiled brat.
BRodda
QUOTE (Mongoose @ Oct 11 2010, 10:19 PM) *
Mind if I take a crack at the Pitbull? I own one, and would rather not see negative myths perpetuated. I'll try to keep them in line with your stat- if they seem a bit high, well, I'm biased. But you do see a lot of crazy agile pitbulls. They maybe should have reach -1 like other dogs, but seem just on the edge size wise, and given how well they can jump...

BTW, shouldn't dogs in general all have "Enhanced Senses (Hearing)"?

Pit Bull
The term "Pit Bull" applies to several similar breeds of dog, all derived from the English Bulldog in an effort to produce a lighter breed that would be easier to handle in cramped "sporting" fight pits. The breed was also popular as a family dog, until roughly 100 years ago. They retain the heavy body of the bulldog (much slimmed in many cases) but have longer legs, resulting in an athletic build that runs from wirey to bulky. Most breeds have a relatively broad head, with naturally floppy ears and long tail.
Pure breeds rarely exceed 35 Kg in weight. The stats below reflect a pure breed raised as a house pet. Sadly, pit bulls are popular as templates for canine warforms, in which case they often reach 70 Kg due to growth hormones, steroids, implants, and breed mixing / gene splicing.

Pit Bull
Cost: 100-1000 ¥ (typically vet bills and adoption fees if not bought from breeder; special licenses may be required in some areas, driving up cost.)
Availability: 2 (go to the pound, or look in the freeway median)

Attributes:
Body: 1
Agility: 3 (*)
Reaction: 4
Strength: 2 (*)
Charisma: 2
Intuition: 2
Logic: 1
Willpower: 4
Magic: 0
Edge: 0
Init: 6
IP:1

Movement: 10/45
Skills: Athletics 1, Unarmed Combat 1, Intimidation 3, Gymnastics 1
Powers: Enhanced Senses (Smell), Pain Tolerance (1)

* Depending on breeding, add EITHER +1 Strength OR +1 Agility


Dogs have an extended hearing range, don't know why they only get smell. Maybe its not good enough for the bonuses?

As for your build. I few notes/changes:

Body:2 (They are at least durable and damage resistance as an average human)
Reaction: 3 (More baseline)
Willpower: 3 (They are trainable and I don't see them as stubborn)
Unarmed Combat :2 (It should at least be baseline if not better).
Remove gymnastics: (I don't see them as being able to do cartwheels or backflips without training. You can bump Athletics up to 2 and I'd be fine with that.)



pbangarth
It really is tough to modify the dog guidelines to fit real life experience. Working breeds that have been bred for a century or two to do a demanding job break the system. Their stats would make an average NPC jealous. I've had border collies for years, and two currently. In their working world, the ones that aren't tough, physically enduring, more willful than the sheep and as smart as the shepherd tend at best not to be bred. At worst they get shot to save on food. It's very serious (un)natural selection. Any attempt here by me to stat them out would appear over the top.
sabs
But a 1 body for a pit bull seems like someone who doesn't understand the breed at all smile.gif

serious Shepard Dogs, Newfies, Hunting Dogs.. all have stats that would seriously surprise your average person.

A Labrador for example, would have an intuition of 3/4 and a perception skill of 3/4.
Pitbulls should have a str 3, body 3, will 3. Pitt bulls are viciously deadly dogs, when they fight. Remember they're from a breed of dog used by the romans in Gladiator fights.


BRodda
QUOTE (pbangarth @ Oct 12 2010, 09:22 AM) *
It really is tough to modify the dog guidelines to fit real life experience. Working breeds that have been bred for a century or two to do a demanding job break the system. Their stats would make an average NPC jealous. I've had border collies for years, and two currently. In their working world, the ones that aren't tough, physically enduring, more willful than the sheep and as smart as the shepherd tend at best not to be bred. At worst they get shot to save on food. It's very serious (un)natural selection. Any attempt here by me to stat them out would appear over the top.


I guess the question is are they stated down to not be game breaking? Or does anyone really have a problems with a dog that is a weapon and could see that as a serious boost to the "Beastmaster" style archetype?
WyldKnight
The beast master archetype could use a boost considering all the risk and investment you need when dealing with a lot of animals. Also don't forget that in the book the mental stats are different for animals. Even a dog with logic 6 is about as smart as a human with 2 or 3. So having a dog with high intuition and logic isn't that big of a deal.
Mongoose
QUOTE (sabs @ Oct 12 2010, 03:28 PM) *
But a 1 body for a pit bull seems like someone who doesn't understand the breed at all smile.gif

serious Shepard Dogs, Newfies, Hunting Dogs.. all have stats that would seriously surprise your average person.

A Labrador for example, would have an intuition of 3/4 and a perception skill of 3/4.
Pitbulls should have a str 3, body 3, will 3. Pitt bulls are viciously deadly dogs, when they fight. Remember they're from a breed of dog used by the romans in Gladiator fights.


Body 1 reflects the fact that they are average sized dogs. A 65 lb pitbull is much more fragile than a 150 lb human. If a normal big dog (say a lab) gets body 2, then that would do for them; from the above posts, I figured it was Bod 1. I figure you need to get up into the breeds that typically hit 100 lbs before you see Bod 2.
For a pit bull, something like "will to live" or "pain resistance" covers their will to keep going in a fight much better than a 3 body. When you hear about dogs keeping on going despite grevious wounds, that is a LEARNED ability- dog fighters train for it, with visciously cruel methods, so fighting dogs would have it at higher levels.
The fact that they CAN learn this ability is the reason I gave them a high willpower; they need it to survive the mistreatment. I wasn't trying to indicate they were hard to train, but it seems right to make them slightly more able to resist stunbolts, etc.
And remember, I said that I was specifically talking about pit bulls raised as family pets. Taking a trained fighting dog as the baseline is like using a MMA trained body builder who abuses steroids as the human baseline.

The mastiffs used by the Romans weigh 3 times as much as a pit bull, and have a MUCH nastier bite; bite strength is directly proportional to head size, regardless of breed, and mastiffs are both huge and have large heads for thier size. The stuff about pit bull jaw strength (and especially the "locking mechanism") is bullshit- they do have big heads for the (rather average) size, but so do some other breeds.

QUOTE
As for your build. I few notes/changes:

Body:2 (They are at least durable and damage resistance as an average human)
Reaction: 3 (More baseline)
Willpower: 3 (They are trainable and I don't see them as stubborn)
Unarmed Combat :2 (It should at least be baseline if not better).
Remove gymnastics: (I don't see them as being able to do cartwheels or backflips without training. You can bump Athletics up to 2 and I'd be fine with that.)


Reaction I could certainly see as being baseline, though who knows?
Unarmed combat- if two is the baseline, that's good. An extra point of Agility over the baseline makes them better there without the need for extra skill.
Gymnastics covers jumping, balancing, and dodging, so 1 skill point seemed fitting from what I've seen of them compared to other breeds. Since its part of the Athletics group, it seems nearly all dogs have it anyhow- there was no reason to mention it separately. Obviously that doesn't imply any special ability in dancing, although that is covered by Gymnastics / Athletics....
The mental stats might also be off, though I think Will 4 can be justified. Pitbulls are actually one of the smarter breeds. Not as much so as top working breeds, but much more so than ornamental breeds. They shouldn't be below baseline. They actually are stubborn (famously so as fighters) but are also eager to please, which makes training pretty quick. Training should not use willpower as a "resisting attribute" - a strong willpower applied to aid learning is helpful, not harmful!
pbangarth
The Collected Paracritters Project points back to this thread, and reminds me. This is a Border Collie I am using as the partner for an adept shepherd in the "The Sun Never Sets" campaign here on DS. The GM and I discussed this build at length and settled on the following. Our discussion agreed with the above conclusion that some breeds don't fit the general stats given in the rules. We put his cost at 20,000 nuyen to cover heritage, training and stats as per Running Wild. Adept powers through Empowerment add to the following:

Jake – Border Collie – Training level: Against Instinct

BOD 2
AGI 4
REA 4
STR 1
CHA 3
INT 4
LOG 2
WIL 3
EDG 3
ESS 6
Init 8 (1 IP)
Movement 10/45
Skills: Intimidation(mental? “border collie stare”) 2(4), Perception 2, Tracking 2, Unarmed Combat 1, Dodge 1
Powers: Enhanced Sense(smell), Natural Weapon (claw/bite: DV 2P, AP 0)
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