Alright, there is this section in sensors that talks about how there is varuables for the different illision based spells, for negatives.
Then they give the page for the start of the magic session.
Now me being the diligent person that I am I've skimmed it a few times and haven't found it.
And knowing that I will have some questions about this problem anyways. I'm wondering if you can help me out.
Full Version: Sensors
Wha?
Any chance you could rephrase that? That made no sense to me, but then again I'm mostly asleep...
~J
Any chance you could rephrase that? That made no sense to me, but then again I'm mostly asleep...
~J
Basicly how does the illusion spells effect detecting something with sensors.
It is my understanding that sensors aren't just visual sensors, they are noise, vibration. As well as other things.
The book lists the beginning of the magic chapter for a reference page. I'm not sure as too how this will help me.
(Wondering if I'm so sleepy that I'm not making any sense to him still, either.)
(Well, that is supposed to be asleep, but whatever.)
It is my understanding that sensors aren't just visual sensors, they are noise, vibration. As well as other things.
The book lists the beginning of the magic chapter for a reference page. I'm not sure as too how this will help me.
(Wondering if I'm so sleepy that I'm not making any sense to him still, either.)
(Well, that is supposed to be asleep, but whatever.)
If you're referring to general sensors, Ultrasound and thermal sensors that are not thermographic vision will see the character just fine. If you're talking Drone/Vehicle Sensors, the character is screwed because Level 0 sensors include basic Ultrasound and it just goes up from there.
Vehicle Sensors 0wnz0r invisibility.
~J
Vehicle Sensors 0wnz0r invisibility.
~J
So there is no rolling, that seems a little harsh to the characters.
I know I can just make stuff up. But I tend to like to stay to the book, so that I can call things up when I need too.
I know I can just make stuff up. But I tend to like to stay to the book, so that I can call things up when I need too.
Invisiblity adds +4 to sensor tests. The same as using Ultrasound.
In R3 under the sensors (in one of the sections) theres a breakdown of what is specifically included in each sensor level. By level 2 or 3 everythings there, ultrasound, thermal, sound, etc.
If something like a drone is trying to detect someone covered by Improved Invisibility, the spell works because the drone isnt allowed a resistance test because its a non-living object.
If something like humans are just using sensors to try and find the person, youll have to make a ruling.
I believe the FAQ has some guideline on this, such as using half the sensors rating to make the test to reflect the illusion; or simply applying a logical modifier such as the one mentioned above.
If something like a drone is trying to detect someone covered by Improved Invisibility, the spell works because the drone isnt allowed a resistance test because its a non-living object.
If something like humans are just using sensors to try and find the person, youll have to make a ruling.
I believe the FAQ has some guideline on this, such as using half the sensors rating to make the test to reflect the illusion; or simply applying a logical modifier such as the one mentioned above.
There is a different spell to be used if you wanted to fool electronic sensors. I don't have my copy of Mits on hand right now, oh the looks my Gunny would give me. But I know for sure that there is one. Or is it all in my head?
Silence acts as invisibility to ultrasound sensors, so stack invis and silence and you beat drone sensors generally.
Improved invis. Lets not get into that arguement again. But Silence and Imp. Invs.
Honestly I wish there was a more comprehensive break down. If I have my rating 2 sensor package and I wanna add low light and thermo to it, I STILL dont know how to do that.
Honestly I wish there was a more comprehensive break down. If I have my rating 2 sensor package and I wanna add low light and thermo to it, I STILL dont know how to do that.
Easy, buy the cyber mod, half price.
The rules for adding sensor abilities without upgrading the sensor rating are in R3 somewhere. I'll check the page, but they exist.
~J
~J
Page 30, the upgrade costs (0.1*(old rating))*(new rating) for each component.
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| Silence acts as invisibility to ultrasound sensors, so stack invis and silence and you beat drone sensors generally. |
Lower-rating ones at least. Radar is still a problem.
Sweet.
silence shouldn't make you invisible to ultrasound... in fact it should make you bloody obvious as the Giant Black Hole where no sound is reflected at all...
I don't know if this is canon, but it is my interpretation.
-Mike R.
I don't know if this is canon, but it is my interpretation.
-Mike R.
I think the spell was discussed int he unltrasound section, but I could be wrong.
It's either SR3 or Rigger3, but somewhere it says that silence makes you invisible to ultrasound...but i see your point...they might not be able to ID you, but they would know something is up as a blob of nothing went on past...kinda like a drow from D&D using his darkness on himself to walk past the guards...doable, but it might not be the best choice...
Physical Mask and Trid Phantasm would work against vehicle sensors right? It might not make you invisible, but depending on what illusions you wove you could get by...
Physical Mask and Trid Phantasm would work against vehicle sensors right? It might not make you invisible, but depending on what illusions you wove you could get by...
I think of Silence vs Ultrasound as similar to ECM vs Radar -- hard to tell exactly what it is, but it's pretty bloody obvious it's something.
The eratta specifically stated that silence works to unltrasound as invisibility is to hearing.
i guess I'll just have to houserule it for me, cause that don't make no sense.
-mike R.
edit: wait, invis is to HEARING?
-mike R.
edit: wait, invis is to HEARING?
| QUOTE (Fahr) |
| that don't make no sense |
Words out of my mouth, and all that.
[Edit]Checked all the relevant Erratas on the Shadowrunrpg.Com site, and couldn't find anything dealing with the spell Silence. Nor in FAQ.[/Edit]
Bitbasher your post made my head hurt
(segfault:illogical logic does not compute. 0x642h)
I shall assume that bitbasher meant invis is to Sight
by Canon, laws of sound does not work properly, houserules are needed if you want it to work by laws of physics, where silence would create dead space in the ultrasound image, unless you made the sound waves pass through you effortlessly instead of deaden them completely.
(segfault:illogical logic does not compute. 0x642h)
I shall assume that bitbasher meant invis is to Sight
by Canon, laws of sound does not work properly, houserules are needed if you want it to work by laws of physics, where silence would create dead space in the ultrasound image, unless you made the sound waves pass through you effortlessly instead of deaden them completely.
| QUOTE |
| If you're talking Drone/Vehicle Sensors, the character is screwed because Level 0 sensors include basic Ultrasound and it just goes up from there. |
Just to be speficic, Level 0 includes ultrasound proximity sensors, which is not equivalent to ultrasound vision or mapping. The object could be a box, a table leg, or a friggin' elephant, and the drone won't know the difference.
true, you'd need mapping to be able to detail out the gap in the "vision" due to silence. couldn't find anything in Errata on Silence either in MITS/SR3/R3, so I'm assuming that it may not prevent detection by Ultrasound, it would probably produce a area of darkened space. Also keep in mind what it says in SR3 on Silence
| QUOTE |
| SR3 pg 196 Silence creates an area that dampens sound. |
It also goes on to say that it reduces sonic attacks by the force of the spell. Since ultrasound is a real high frequency, and the silence only dampens it. I imagine that the ultrasound image may be skewed but otherwise intact. What I mean by this is that the image of the silenced character may appear further away from the sensor due to the diminished return wave. but the wave would still bounce, it would just be slower than it normally would be. so the Runner then appears something like 10 feet further away than he really is.
This is of course, unless anyone can qoute the errata that says that Silence works on Ultrasonic sight.
Silence however does work on Sonar, probably because Sonar is a lower energy wave, and is absorbed by the silence spell.
Any thoughts on these ideas on silence?
Powerful active sonar can be loud enough to kill nearby animals. Ultrasound isn't made to be even a significant fraction of that power. There's no way ultrasound would just be reduced while sonar is deadened.
~J
~J
okay, just proven I'm no scientist 
oh well. just a thought anyway, but I believe it only says it affects Sonar, so maybe Sonar would also be affected the same way ultrasound is affected, by making the image of the character appear further away?
oh well. just a thought anyway, but I believe it only says it affects Sonar, so maybe Sonar would also be affected the same way ultrasound is affected, by making the image of the character appear further away?
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