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hobgoblin
http://ryugyonghotel.com/

Didn't know this place existed until today.

I find myself wondering how well such a design can stand up to say earthquakes...
Reg06
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 18 2010, 04:26 PM) *
I find myself wondering how well such a design can stand up to say earthquakes...


Well? It's been there for quite some time, and has a good shape for earthquake resistance.
CanRay
Yeah, but does it have a bunch of nuclear reactors in the basement, and an AI running the whole deal? nyahnyah.gif
TheScrivener
Wow. $750 million on a 3,000 room luxury hotel in a country that can't feed its people... every time I learn something new about North Korea I get more confused.
Karoline
I prefer the Japanese design, it is at least set up to be self sufficient.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 18 2010, 07:28 PM) *
I prefer the Japanese design, it is at least set up to be self sufficient.

Yep, this would be more of a re-purposing. It was just that the first thought when seeing the photos was the renraku arc, if in skeleton only.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (TheScrivener @ Oct 18 2010, 06:16 PM) *
Wow. $750 million on a 3,000 room luxury hotel in a country that can't feed its people... every time I learn something new about North Korea I get more confused.

And soviet russia built a subway station that looks like the dance hall of a palace. Never underestimate the prestige angle on something...
Karoline
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 18 2010, 02:03 PM) *
And soviet russia built a subway station that looks like the dance hall of a palace. Never underestimate the prestige angle on something...

And remember that 'prestige' means 'frivolous expenditures'

Still, on the hotel, I'd expect them to make their money back, so it isn't that bad.

I mean, say $1000 a night on a room (And that isn't even the expensive ones) with 3k rooms. That's 3 mil a night, which means that it would pay for itself in under a year. Now, that isn't counting electricity, staff pay, and so on, but even if you figure that eats 75% of the income, you're looking at the hotel paying for itself in 3 years.

Economically it makes sense.
hobgoblin
Makes me think that whatever is turning Dubai into a city of hotels is thinking basically the same thing...
capt.pantsless
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 18 2010, 01:48 PM) *
And remember that 'prestige' means 'frivolous expenditures'

Still, on the hotel, I'd expect them to make their money back, so it isn't that bad.

I mean, say $1000 a night on a room (And that isn't even the expensive ones) with 3k rooms. That's 3 mil a night, which means that it would pay for itself in under a year. Now, that isn't counting electricity, staff pay, and so on, but even if you figure that eats 75% of the income, you're looking at the hotel paying for itself in 3 years.

Economically it makes sense.



If you want to pay $1000 a night to stay in a hotel that may or may not have electricity. And this is a country that isn't exactly welcoming to foreigners.
Mongoose
QUOTE (Karoline @ Oct 18 2010, 07:48 PM) *
And remember that 'prestige' means 'frivolous expenditures'

Still, on the hotel, I'd expect them to make their money back, so it isn't that bad.

I mean, say $1000 a night on a room (And that isn't even the expensive ones) with 3k rooms. That's 3 mil a night, which means that it would pay for itself in under a year. Now, that isn't counting electricity, staff pay, and so on, but even if you figure that eats 75% of the income, you're looking at the hotel paying for itself in 3 years.

Economically it makes sense.


It makes sense in a country with a strong tourism industry. North Korea is ... not a tourist destination.
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Oct 18 2010, 02:57 PM) *
Makes me think that whatever is turning Dubai into a city of hotels is thinking basically the same thing...


Dubai was attempting to build a financial industry and a tourist infrastructure in order to switch away from being an oil-dependent economy. Their leadership recognized that the oil wasn't going to last forever, and they needed to find other sources of revenue for the future.

The problem is, they went bankrupt before they could get anywhere near those goals.

North Korea has no such excuse. It's just a prestige project, much the same way they built a special radio tower on the border JUST so it would be taller than the one that was on the South Korean side.



-k
CanRay
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 18 2010, 04:51 PM) *
North Korea has no such excuse. It's just a prestige project, much the same way they built a special radio tower on the border JUST so it would be taller than the one that was on the South Korean side.
-k

In other words, Kimmy has an issue with compensating for something.
Reg06
QUOTE (TheScrivener @ Oct 18 2010, 05:16 PM) *
Wow. $750 million on a 3,000 room luxury hotel in a country that can't feed its people... every time I learn something new about North Korea I get more confused.


These won't help with that.
Marcus
Keep in mind who your dealing with. NK's leadership is completely obsessed with the appearance of strength. Their propaganda and cult of personality makes Mao's look like fan club. The Hotel is just another of their models, just like 12 lane high ways with no one to use them, 4 captured invasion tunnels. All of it just shows that NK strategy is focused upon appearance over substance. Lets face it if the only reason your nation exists is b/c China likes having a radical puppet state to play stalking horse for it. If you were part of that leadership you must have some serious trouble sleep at night. (Never mind killing 10% of your population through starvation and creating a a whole generation of stunted children.)
MJBurrage
The Renraku Arcology—according to Shutdown—has a base 780 × 650 meters, and a height of 969 meters. Its design is a truncated pyramid, and based on the preponderance of the illustrations of the building, I would estimate that the roof dimensions are about half the base (and thus the roof area is 1/4 the base). All of that gives us a building with a volume of ~286.6 million m3.

The Ryugyong Hotel has a roof height of 330 m, and 105 floors for an average floor height of ~3 m. It also has a total floor area of ~360,000 m2, for a volume of ~1.1 million m3.

To compare, the Sears Tower has a volume of ~1.5 million m3. This means that the Renraku Arcology has a volume equal to ~190 Sears Towers, or ~260 Ryugyong Hotels.
MJBurrage
Quadruple post 2/4
MJBurrage
Quadruple post 3/4 (apparently logging in after a bad disconnect can also trigger this, too bad the admins can't/don't delete them.)
MJBurrage
Quadruple post 4/4
CanRay
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Oct 19 2010, 01:38 AM) *
The Renraku Arcology—according to Shutdown—has a base 780 × 650 meters, and a height of 969 meters. Its design is a truncated pyramid, and based on the preponderance of the illustrations of the building, I would estimate that the roof dimensions are about half the base (and thus the roof area is 1/4 the base). All of that gives us a building with a volume of ~286.6 million m3.

This means that the Renraku Arcology has a volume equal to ~190 Sears Towers, or ~260 Ryugyong Hotels.

Or two Wal-Marts. nyahnyah.gif
Neraph
QUOTE (CanRay @ Oct 18 2010, 09:50 PM) *
In other words, Kimmy has an issue with compensating for something.

Whatever gave you that idea?
Draco18s
QUOTE (Neraph @ Oct 19 2010, 11:20 AM) *


I like #1. Although 10, 8, 7, and 6 are good too.
Daddy's Little Ninja
The North Koreans work on the Stalinist ideal that if they make something big enough and impressive enough everyone will say 'ooo' and be impressed and not notice the starving masses, the brain washed intelligensia or the police state. Like how they delude themselves that if they tell the people Kim Jung-Un is "brilliant" the people will say it is so and not question the "brilliance" of a 27 year old who clearly is not suffering from the food shortages of the masses.

When the Party congress occurred the BBC news showed youths ball room dancing before the hall. the commentator declared "They express the wish for better times ahead, that won't be too hard."
KarmaInferno
Eh, calling them Stalinist, Communist, or even Socialist is an insult to those types of governments.

North Korea is a straight up dictatorship.




-k
Snow_Fox
Stalinist level of control but most media's in the area, except China, are starting to call it a monarchy.

For Korea watchers that place is infamous. It actually gets put prominantly in some pictures and in some official pictures it is clearly...removed or angled out depending on whether the project is in favor at the time. Typical of Kim Jung mentally-ill they seem to think if they tell people it's not there, they will forget the last official pic that did in fact show it. I'm not kidding! try reading for of their official sites. The self delusional horn blowing would be laughable if it wasn't for the suffering going on under it.

It was started as a testament to the workers paradise and it has become just that, the gigantic example of all that is North Korea. Big dreams but cold and unfinished and a white elephant of unparralleld proprotions designed to make the beloved leader look powerful instead of using the same resources to help the people.

Marcus
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Oct 20 2010, 08:04 PM) *
Eh, calling them Stalinist, Communist, or even Socialist is an insult to those types of governments.

North Korea is a straight up dictatorship.




-k

Stalinist Qualifies. There is nothing to insulting enough to say about Stalinist practices.
My money says Il will try for unity on his death bed. I don't see NK being Anything other then an Embarrassment for China going forward.
KarmaInferno
I suppose you're right about Stalinism. Though I consider that more or less dictatorship by another name too.

For China, NK is both a blessing and a curse.

It's a curse for the obvious reasons.

It's a blessing because NK is another bargaining chip in China's relations with the rest of the world.

As long as China is seen as the only external nation that has any real influence over North Korea, that gives China some measure of leverage.



-k
Daddy's Little Ninja
The Chinese fear a collapse of North Korea because it will result in a flood of refugees into their space. Kim Jung Il between meglo-mania and stupidity has wrecked the country he inherited from his father. I think the Chinese are waiting for him to die in the hopes that his son and the regents appointed around him will do a better job than the delusional dwarf has done.

The Chinese do not care about it as a 'communist state.' They are happy to have non-communist satalites, look at their actions in Africa. But they want North Korea to survive as a buffer against South Korea. They fear the fall of North Korea will be like the collapse of the Warsaw pact for the soviets, suddenly the Americans are on their border instead of being on the other side of a buffer zone.
Snow_Fox
I suspect that if it wasn't clear Kim was in failing health, the chinese in desperation would arrange an accident on his next treatment visit. I find the ideas of where this could all go with the awakening if facinating. I mean Kim Jung mentally-Ill's already a dwarf. He thinks he's hansome and sexy a James bond of the far east and clueless about the fact we know he wears lifts and has coke bottle glasses- seriously they formally protested the James Bond film "Die Another Day" because the villain was uspposed to be korean.
KarmaInferno
That's assuming that the "crazy" act isn't just in fact that, an act.

It'd certainly keep your enemies on their toes and guessing if they think you're insane.



-k
Snow_Fox
nah, I know what you mean. Reagan did that when he got into office-acted like the war crazed wacK job and got the Soviets back to the negoiating table out of fear for what he'd do. Stalin did much the same thing in negoiating with Truman in them id 40's but Kim Jung mentally-Il is too far gone. He's isolated his nation and they've been cut off. His people are starving and the self serving bs they spout from official mouth pieces is just pathetic.

For example when the N Korean team made it to the World Cup for the first time in decades they proudly declared it wa because the dear leader had personally crafted their plays and over seen their training , nice that he had that time while his nation starved, but when they were so badly torunced they dropped all those claims.
PBTHHHHT
QUOTE (Marcus @ Oct 19 2010, 01:53 AM) *
Keep in mind who your dealing with. NK's leadership is completely obsessed with the appearance of strength. Their propaganda and cult of personality makes Mao's look like fan club. The Hotel is just another of their models, just like 12 lane high ways with no one to use them, 4 captured invasion tunnels. All of it just shows that NK strategy is focused upon appearance over substance. Lets face it if the only reason your nation exists is b/c China likes having a radical puppet state to play stalking horse for it. If you were part of that leadership you must have some serious trouble sleep at night. (Never mind killing 10% of your population through starvation and creating a a whole generation of stunted children.)


I advise anyone who likes to read up on North Korea to read the graphic novel, Pyongyang, by Guy Delisle. He's a cartoonist that spent a month or so there while working on an animation project and he made this book from his thoughts and observations of the crazy place in the early 2000's.
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