Granted these kinda guys are for monty haul campaigns or for prime runner use only. I can't find anything to dictate the mechanics of these things, that and Cybermancy.

They're only for GM use as opposition, really. REALLY.

But, they're fully described in Augmentation (SR4). I think SR3 was Man & Machine?

If you can scrounge up a copy of SR2's Cybertechnology book, that really plays up the HSQ (the bad kind) of cybermancy and cyberzombies.

SR3 was indeed Man & Machine.

CZ's are people you can stuff as much 'ware as you want into them as long as you have that spirit Macguffin stuffed into the frame to keep the thing going. Man & Machine added a few 'must-haves' like the memory stimulator to keep reminding the thing that it used to be metahuman.

The Dragonheart Saga revolved around Dunkelzhan's will being executed by Ryan Mercury's team. The primary antagonist was a former mage that had been made into a Cyber-Zombie. Parts of the book are told through his point of view so its a great way to get a taste of Cyber-Zombie flavor.
The first book on Amazon. Even has a cyber-zombie on the cover

My roommate made me dig out Robocop 2, and that movie is pure Shadowrun. It kind of applies here:

The hero is a former cop, nearly killed in the line of duty, whose contract specifies that the corporation who runs the police has the authority to perform experimental upgrades. They give him a full-body cyberreplacement that gives him a targeting computer, interior holster, recoil compensation, and as much armor as an APC. In the second film, it is revealed that they have been trying to develop a "Robocop 2", each model of which self-terminates in a horrible way. One kills everyone in the room, and another rips its cyberskull off.

Worth watching the thing (it's on Netflix streaming) for some ideas about how cutting edge war machines might fail due to the human element.

The original Robocop was far better, I mean heck he's got the whole smart gun link going. Like Murphy the CZ loses part of themselves in the name of all the tech.

as for CZ's yeah they're kind of munchkinish but definately not for PC's. You need a few million and a delta grade clinic. The books said you could get hte treatment if you did something major, like save a AAA corp from destruction.

I think they were supposed to be the serious bad ass to counter munchkin powered characters, sort of 'I don't care how bad you trhink you're troll sami is, I'm turning this guy loose on you."

You also wouldn't *want* it. Not only do you basically slide away from sentience, but you're totally dependent. Money's no longer worth anything, because where can you go (even if you weren't suicidal, cancer-ridden, and going mindless)?

Feel free to throw in CZs for flavor, but keep in mind that corps are all about the bottom line, and Cyberzombies are very expensive per unit of badassery.

Augmentation doesn't give nuyen signs for any but the most insignificant parts of the process, but I would put it in the 10 million nuyen range. That's assuming you already have the facility to do it in!

A high-end team of operatives will be much cheaper, and more effective. And easier to replace when one dies!

I would only send CZs after powerful mages, and situations where you can only send one operative. Everything else, hire prime runners.

My impression is that the people who do cybermancy get something out of it other than a financial reward. Corps get research data, mages get a rush of power, and quite likely the "powerful spirits" involved get to advance their ends as well.

If the advantages of playing a CZ appeals to you, you could maybe try playing a ghoul with the astral hazing quality. You won't get all the cool implants, but then again, you won't need a lot of augmentations given the stat boosts a ghoul gets. Socially its a toss up as to who would be less popular...

Was looking at more of a prime runner option for my Zombie Apocalypse run, (well it will be a few runs and not a total apoc), but thanks all of you for your input, you're all amazing!

Totally random question that occured reading this..

Would a space marine dreadnaught be a cyborg or a CZ?

Hmmmm, maybe cyborg, CZ is made with all kinds of magic, Dreads are just brought back to consciousness using tech, though I think Psykers are involved. Up to debate.

Its basically a very large walker drone with Cyborg Adaption.

In fact, the original published descriptions had a rigger cocoon.

Why would any Prime Runner ever willingly WANT to totally give up any and all freedom he might have had, and be reduced to nothing more than a walking tool under the complete control of a megacorp?



-k

Because Prime Runner just means 'NPC Grade 1'?

PC or NPC, going Cyberzombie means you're effectively a slave.

Worse, actually. A slave can still have aspirations for freedom. A Cyberzombie becomes totally dependent on the Corp that is running him.



-k

Because it beats dying? I mean, that's how Hatchetman chose it, at any rate. Good enough for him, good enough for plenty of others, I imagine.

A "get away from Grim Reaper free" card is probably awful tempting to guys already in a Shadowrunner-ish line of work, particularly to guys who are already low Essence combat types that might be having enough cyberpsychosis issues to not mind having a full time job as a company murder machine. Knowing that the card comes with strings attached might not mind some folks.

Unfortunately most cyberzombie subjects tend not to realize the true cost of the deal til it's too late. Assuming they have a choice.

I recall Hatchetman not ending up in a good way, at least by implication.

Also, the Cyberzombie process tends to kill you soon enough anyhow. Whether by cancer or your will to live giving out.



-k

Not recently. Check out Augmentation for the more up-to-date rules for 'em. It's not as bad as it used to be. Quite.

It's still a short-term solution to a long-term problem (being dead), but it's a pretty sweet gig, for as long as you've got the facilities you need and have lots of Will + Int dice to sling. Bulletproof, magic resistant, and packing up to double the normal Essence worth of goodies? It's still a deal with the Devil, for sure, but if you're able to get the hook-up...well...it might beat the alternative.

Even in the Augmentation chapter, in a message being sent from an attack-of-conscience researcher that doesn't want to work in cybermancy any more, it mentions that most of their "subjects" are terminal cases or trauma victims.

Even in real life, how many folks do you think die wishing for just a little longer? In The Sixth World, there are about a dozen clinics around the world that can give you that little longer, and make sure that the time you get from them will be full of amazing prowess and combat ability...all you've got to do is be worth their investment. How many folks would turn that down, given the opportunity?

Has anyone attempted to make the ultimate CZ with all the technical doo-dads and widgits jammed in one package?

Thats not really hard, just list every single piece of compatible ware in the charsheet and your done.

True, but I'm wondering if it has already been done so I can see what the outcome would be without me having to be active, haha.

I've been wondering what the game would be like if you were to simply remove essence loss as a rule, with only money and karma costs left to balance things out...

Probably you would have to up the prices of everything to at least alpha-ware standard, but still, could that work? Also, you would probably have to make everyone an awakened, too, to balance things out.

The end result, IMHO wouldn't be too much different, except you would have more trans-humanism and less cyberpunk. Like cyber-superheroes.

I've always thought that the idea of essence itself is total bull, and one of the main reasons SR suspends less disbelief than it could.

Actually, there is a line in Aug that says that nobody has ever survived having lower than -6 Ess. Sure it's not a game mechanic, per se, but most of the CZ rules are made of handwavium anyway.



~R~

I think you can actually pack it all in without going under -6, if you use delta grade and that nanite treatment. The cost is outrageous, though. There's lots of high essence stuff you simply can't buy if you get other stuff (muscle systems / skin armor / bone lacing vs cyberlimbs, for example).




I had a prime-runner level character back in SR3 who I was actually hoping could become a cyberzombie. He was dying from being a masterless vampiric pawn (they get essence loss, immunity to normal weapons, immunity to age, immunity to toxins, and "required diet- essence from master vampire") and had zero essence (and hence just one month to live) already. One potential cure migh have been to make him a cyberzombie, preferably with a relativley high essence. Could have gone with essence 0, in fact, assuming they used an essence hole for the IMS. Under the rules at the time, an essence 0 cyberzombie had almost no drawbacks (assuming you consider dual nature not a drawback) because the drawbacks were all based on essence (even the background count and the cost of the drugs would have been 0).

Potentially very cheesy (not that being a vampirc pawn wasn't cheesy, while it lasted) and it never happened- the party supposedly had him stashed away in suspended animation waiting for a cure (the reason they had to kill his master- they needed samples to cook up the cure), but I never played him again. Probably the GM's way of removing the character in epic fashion...

How on earth is that a problem, there really isn't enought ware to get when you have 12 essence to spend.
Hell, there's barely enought to fill up 6 points of essence if you have all the possible cost reductions.

*Shrug*

I just assume that most characters won't have biocompatibility, or the geneware, or any number of the other Ess reducers.

I don't think it would be too hard to have all of the useful ones, especially since you already have access to a delta-grade clinic, but I think having literally every compatible piece of 'ware is stretching it a bit.

Given, I haven't tried, and am open to being proved wrong by someone with more time and motivation than me.





~R~