Ok, so in our most recent run, we came up against a troll with 2 full obvious cyber arms, and from what I could tell wired reflexes 2.

We've grabbed his corpse on the way out and now I'm wondering how to go about turning this cyber into money.

How would you go about it? I've got a pretty good street doc contact, should I just give him a call?

You'll usually need to go through organleggers or something like that. Your average street doc isn't going to be too excited about extracting used cyber from a corpse.

Don't expect to make much though. Second hand is already half price. Then you only get 30% of that. Then you take another price hit because it was obviously involved with a crime and so on. You'll get around 5% of the value of the cyber if you're lucky.

I'd say the obvious cyberarms would be a pretty straightforward Negotioation + Charisma (10, 6 hours) check as per the fencing rules. The wired reflexes might need a street doc contact or a cybertechnology skill check to remove. the street doc of course would want a cut.

It's largely up to your GM as to how complex he wants to make it.

The least amount of headache possible for him is to have you roll contacts or etiquette to see how fast and well you can unload it, with failure resulting in no buyers and critical failure resulting in trouble. Roll a few times and collect some cash.

A cunning GM will make you roleplay it, because there are all kinds of ways this can go South on you. If you don't find a reliable fence, the cops could come after you for selling Cyber without permits, passing controlled technology, or just good old murder. If you find a fence who is a little too well connected, you could wind up dealing with Tantamous (sp?), the Ghoul-run organlegging cartel (putting the "chop" back in chop-shop!). You could also wind up tipping off the Troll's friends when you sell that very-recognizable arm, and get his gang on your ass for payback.

A very kind GM will help you develop a creepy but reliable fence for secondhand cyber, who might come through with exciting bits now and then.

The simple answer is, 'no, you can't sell it'.

It really depends on the type of game you play. Personally I actively discourage that type of looting in my game by making it difficult to sell and usually not worth the trouble. Mostly because I truly hate the "kill-loot-repeat" paradigm of other games. YMMV.

It's possible. If your GM allows it. Judging by the quotes I'd say some street docs wouldn't mind fencing it, though for better profits you'd probably need an organlegger contact (as someone mentioned before, Tamanous). Though the entire practice is somewhat repugnant and of questionable moral or ethical practices. If that matters to your SR team.

This.

Also this:

My current team is Robin Hooding it and needs all the income streams we can get. It's gotten to the point where we carry self-sealing body bags to stuff the cybered-up criminal scum into for easy transport. Once we get them back to our temporary hide, the team's tech guy slots in a Medicine skillsoft to carefully remove the cyber and then we sterilize the items with chemicals and magic. Bag them up and the face goes about fencing the cyberware for ~15% of sticker price. The front end is a little messy, but the back end of the deal is not really much different than fencing the guns taken from the same dead goons. Either way, you're moving less-than-legal merchandise acquired through less-than-charming means to less-than-savory characters for less-than-ethical profit. But business is business, chummer.

If your team lacks the resources to extract the cyber yourselves, then you can certainly hire a street doc to do it. Some may find the notion of hacking up bodies for cash makes them queasy, but some street docs will figure they're already making a living by aiding and abetting professional murderers, so why not? Just have your face keep looking till they find the latter.

I'm now curious as to what KE and others do with the cyber from dead employees.

Tir Ghosts and Sioux Wildcats I could see being buried intact, corp guys I'm not sure sure about.

Eh. In most games, it just means the GM has to downgrade your cash pay.

Or that he has to upgrade it. Looting often means the player feels that his character has need for more money.

In what universe does the player *not* feel that? Greedy bastards. It also means the GM can't send augmented enemies, so that's more magic foes or just higher skills and attributes. Bleh.

If the company paid for the cyber and legally owns it, I'm sure they'd recycle it for the replacements. It's just fiscally and environmentally responsible.

Yes you can, although it's pretty rare in my experience. Since most runs are a break in followed by a break out, carrying a bunch of heavy bodies slows you down to much and hurts a lot of important rolls you may need. If that's not a problem with this mission, there's still the low profits, shifty characters, and some fairly heavy social stigma. For most teams, it's just not worth it.

Not that ghouls/Tamanous aren't valuable contacts for a regular team, it's just less "profit" and more "body disposal and beer money".

Of course, in a ganger campaign, where resources are more limited and there's less high-level break ins, it can be very valuable.

... but that's not the same as knowing that he does need more money. Some players are just greedy.

In some game systems, looting does not affect the character's wealth. So while the player may feel that his character needs more money, he is not going to loot.

In some games, the money the character gets (or would get for the job) more than satisfies what the player feels is necessary to grow the character, thus the player does not *feel* that.


Hence "often".

I don't believe you. The nature of money is 'more'.

Once past a certain threshold, money is just a way of keeping score.

And score is how you win

Actually, I've had plenty of games where I was happy with the amount of money I got.

But if the pay the GM provides for the runs isn't even enought to cover my live style expences, then i really do know that i need more money.

We are playing a low level game (around 275 bp) set in 2050. We live in the barrens and worry about the local street gangs. Its grubby. Water is difficult to get. Food less so as long as you are not fussy.

We have just found a dead runner with some pretty decent tech in him and have now established a contact with the local street doc who works out of a charitable clinic in the Barrens. I doubt if we will get much money out of it, but every nuyen is useful, and we scavenge for every last bit we can get.

The most amusing part is that the charitable clinic is of course the Universal Brotherhood clinic. Nothing bad could happen now that we all have a low level contact with a dodgy doc working for such a nice kind organisation.

That is pretty much the point. Usually players won't got to the trouble of cutting up every enemy for his cyber unless they really think they need the cash - which happens when they start making maybe just a couple of K after lifestyles every month. At that rate they won't be able to pay for improvements - neither tech nor tuition. I don't know of any groups who have had "enough" cash lying around who still scavenged corpses.



That's just bull. The GM needs to think about what to stuff in his enemies, that's true, but adapting your game world in that manner will just make it skewy. Plus, lots of cyber is dirt cheap, and selling it will make a couple of hundred per downed enemy, hardly more. That's nothing to worry about. It won't "unbalance" your campaign in the least, not until they decide to cut up a BBEG, at which point they've worked for it, and earned it.

My *point* is that would make the game skewy. Some cyber is cheap, but almost no bioware is, and the book examples given earlier in this thread quoted 5% return on cyber, but *40%* return on bio.

So. Looting is not earning, and looting augmentations triply so. If this is a normal part of the game, it simply means that you're taking part of your total reward in loot instead of cash.

If your lifestyle is too expensive, your lifestyle is *too expensive*. If the GM is actually paying everyone too little, then looting won't fix the problem; you need to say, 'hey, GM, pay for these runs should be higher'.

There are campaigns in which looting is appropriate (and, rarer, in which augmentation-scavenging is appropriate). The OP may be in one of them. The vast majority are not these kind, though, and you can't 'beat' the GM with IC actions.

How the hell do you get that number? Cyber and bio will both have exactly the same modifiers. Half price for used (And remember, some bio can't be used, so it can't be resold), 30% of that for fencing, minus a bit for evidence in a crime. You're looking at the same 5% return on bio that you are on cyber.

Is there some magic "Bioware is always in high demand, so increase fence value by 700%" that I'm missing somewhere?

"the book examples given earlier in this thread"

Yes, obviously I'm not talking about anything that can't be reused, but the same goes for cyber.

Am I the only one who sees in this a great oportunity?

Let the players earn extra bucks for turning their hiding hole into a charnel house.
Their reputation will start to go from "novahot shadowrunner team" to "organleggers". It means the most reputable and professional runners in the city (the old-schoolers, those who know how to negotiate, prefer silent runs where no one knows what or who did them and who stick to each team member like super glue. Even if they rcognize they are street rats) will /not/ want to run with them, shady fixers adn Johnsons hearing of tehir reputation will call them for gruesome jobs and the Tamanous want to hire them and give thema slightly chewed upon, almost-new boy scout medal.

See where the game goes from there, how much gore and snuff the players are willing to take (and you too), show them the really darker side of the Shadows.

And no, I am not saying to punish them. But rather to follow the natural consequences for their actions. If they play like real professionals, treat them like so, if they become gangers, treat them like gangers... if they decide to open up a chop shop, well its an idea that may be used:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avuovbgoyxU&NR=1

All cyber can be reused by the rules. (Weird, I know, but true. Well, unless you count beta/delta ware)

And a jackpoint comment by a random person isn't a rule or anything. Maybe he can manage 40%, but he isn't using a fence, he's managed to find an exceptionally good contact that (for some reason) accepts used bioware and doesn't think anything of it. He also gets the bioware out himself, or pays someone to do it out of that 40%, because a group like that certainly won't take it out of a bullet ridden body for him.

What, bone lacing? That's just silly.

That's true, Karoline, but I didn't say it was a rule or anything. I said, 'the book examples given earlier in this thread'.

Inncubi, I agree. My point was that this totally changes the campaign.

Here is my question: If they feel they need to harvest `ware in order to make ends meet, is it because they aren`t negotiating for a better price on jobs? And even if that is failing, why don`t they actively seek out more job opportunities? I`m pretty sure it could be really interesting if skilled legworking turned up a few less-then-savory types that had skeletons ready to be played with. Set up a threat, a fake assassination attempt, maybe hi-jack a shipment of something. Just make sure they are people who might hire you for an under the table investigation. If not, send the face in to make contact after a couple days claiming to hear about trouble brewing.

It`s high risk, but at least you can try to claim moral high ground. Don`t do it too often, or it will get boring, and those same unsavory types will catch on.

You seem to have the idea that there is a sort "appropriate maximum" level of rewards that runners should get in SR. That isn't correct - they need to get what gets their bills paid. I don't think 5-10K per month for lifestyle and maybe a bit of high-life is too much, and running should enable you to pay for that. Plus, there are actually teams WITHOUT a face. Their negotiations will most likely not prove too successful. Someone will double as face, but those will be rolling something like 7-9 dice, and not 20 like a dedicated face. Even when throwing edge into it, enough GMs won't make do with one roll, and you can't edge all of them.

While I agree that people should talk to their GMs about their level of payment, I disagree that the GM should discourage actively seeking additional sources of income. There isn't any Wealth by Level to adhere to, here, there is simply what players want. You can make things not worth-while by either making prices ridiculously low, or by giving them more cash for runs. If you give them enough cash, then they won't want to sell used cyber. However, if they suddenly knock off a semi-cyberzombie and want to turn in some cash from this guy, then that's no way you can avoid that, because you've most likely previously arranged payment of the run. Adjusting pay back down at that point seems ridiculous to me. There IS a way to completely remove that option, of course: give them only "zero trace" runs. However, I find that kind of game rather boring. I know a good runner SHOULD be like that, but as a player, I want things to go wrong, so I can shoot people. YES, even in a non-pink-mohawk world. Contradiction? Maybe. Nothing is perfect.

I see it like this:

Buying new gear is only an investment to make more money in the future.
Every runner should - if he's smart - start saving up for retirement at some point. For me that means that most of my characters pay less than 50% of their actual income towards new gear or advancement, the rest is saved up, at least as soon as some higher paying jobs come in.

On low-paying runs it's IMHO entirely appropriate to take what you can get - after all, even if you want that gritty game where PCs are perpetually short on cash, then that's what you're getting: A gritty game where people carve up corpses. You can reward or punish this with street cred/notoriety if you like. But be it as it may - the bodies need to be cleared away anyway. It's just stuff that happens to people.

(I'm now thinking of that ep of Black Lagoon where Rock is shown shaving in front of his window, while chainsaw girl is cutting up a corpse in the alley below - and he doesn't even pay attention.)

I think a bigger thing that selling used cyber is actually re-using it. If I knock off a well-cybered corp bodyguard I might decide I actually want some of his stuff for myself. And that's just the thing that makes running make sense - you use the opportunities that present themselves to make more cash, or gain new opportunities. Too much cash doesn't exist. It's the same as when you capture a stash of BTLs from the go-gang, download some accidental pay-data, make money on the stock-exchange when you know you're going to fuck up Corp A, and Corp B will profit from that. It's what PCs should do. Everything else would be stupid.

Retirement for a shadowrunner is the cost of the bullet that left them dead in an alleyway, and most of the runners know it. They work for the big score, party until the heat cools down, then pull another job about the time they start getting low, at least on the street.

If my players really want to scavenge cyber, they'll find it's more trouble than its worth. They don't have the time to haul bodies back to the lair, or have the medical expertise to slice off an obvious part with the body laying there - and the returns aren't spectacular. They're better off selling whole bodies to the local Ghoulina franchise to make chow. Guns they police end up being used as throwaways on future runs after they've been cleaned up a bit - or the guns are left, period.

Brainpiercing7.62, I'm not talking about an appropriate maximum at all. I'm talking about the level of reward that the GM intends. If you try to 'steal' from the GM, he'll just give you less cash, because there's a number that he's working with. Even if you have a super-face, that Negotiation isn't increasing the GM's number by more than a token amount. Unless the GM is just hella impressed by your creativity, the reward is the reward. That's why the issue has to be resolved at the GM level, not the game level.

But that's exactly the point, they are not moving anywhere off the scale.

Also, you seem to see this as a vs thing. It's not going against the GM, it's not stealing from him, it's simply adding to the make-belief. If at any point the players feel they are constantly being sold short, then they should really talk to their GM.

However, until they reach that point using in-game options like making cash on the side OR turning down runs that pay too low are the easiest short-term solutions, and can considerably add to the fun of things.



That's certainly an opinion, but I fail to see why that logic 6, willpower 5 (or better) runner should act like a street bum gambler. He's certainly got a plan.

Fact is, if ALL your players suddenly start wanting to scavenge corpses, then it's your fucking JOB as a GM to accomodate them, or get the hell out. Because at that point YOUR view of the game is worthless, as apparently your players have decided they want a different game. Powertrips really get you nowhere fast in roleplaying. It's not YOUR game.

Organlegging is very distinct from moving used cyberware. The former is about acquiring and selling the naturally occurring pieces of people. The latter is about recycling mass produced pieces of technology. There is something very different about trying to sell a living heart and a dead cyber arm. I'm pretty sure in canon that the term 'organlegging' never refers to moving used cyberware and the stigmas are quite different between the two activities. For instance, as far as I can tell, Tamanous doesn't even deal in used cyber, or if they do, it's unrelated to and utterly dwarfed by their reputation for organlegging. A team that deals in used cyber might develop a rep as cold-hearted SOBs, but nobody on the streets will confuse them with the ghoulish harvesters of Tamanous.


Shadowrunners are not uniform in their motivation or approach. Some will want to save 10 million nuyen and move to Fiji. (A few will even pull it off.) Others won't.

If all your players want to scavenge corpses, it's also your job to make the reward match the effort. You're the GM, your job is game balance. Which will almost certainly entail, as I said, shifting the extra reward from the cash they would otherwise get, unless the scavenging process involves tons of effort.

I'd be very leery of this, saying that if the players find extra ways to make or save money the GM should adjust their pay rates accordingly. There's lots of things characters can do at character creation or during gameplay which can make them extra money and it seems pretty unfair for the GM to penalize them for this, especially if they spent points during character creation.

For example, if some took Black Market Pipeline, there's a good chance they'll save more money buying gear and make more money selling whatever they find. Should the GM have Johnsons pay them less to keep game balance? What if they're moving gear for the whole team, everyone is buying at a discount (with one Black Market guy taking a small cut from his fellow PCs)?

I think the situation here is pretty analogous. It's very hard to sell used cyberware (to the best of my knowledge), unless you either have the appropriate contacts or skills (you need to know the doc or have decent medical skills, good negotiation skills, and you need to know or find a very specialized fence). Players had to pay for those abilities or contacts. I don't think you mean this but it sounds kinda rail-roady. For example, why would I ever take Negotiation if we're gonna get paid what the GM thinks we should get paid to maintain game balance?

Also, I don't see the game balance issue. Quite frankly, $100,000 of cyberware from a dead body is worth $50,000 (it's now used), which sold to a fence at 25% of street value (pretty good I think) is about $12,500, or about $3,000 per person in a 4 man team. That just doesn't seem unbalancing to me, especially given they had to kill someone with $100,000 worth of cyber in him, then drag him out of the facility and secret him across town.

Right: if they put in the effort and the reward is reasonable, that's fine. And you take Negotiation so you can negotiate, a fun RP action that isn't just the equivalent of a video game's trade mechanic. If you have a superface who 'negotiates' 150% extra pay for everything, while buying everything at big discounts via contacts and more Negotiate, I think we can all agree that it *could* quickly become a balance concern. Everything is a balance concern, and it's not okay to just let things go nuts.

Our team had a medic as part of the team, as well as an alliance with a group of ghouls. Our standard procedure was to take any bodies of folks we killed (to reduce evidence left behind), strip them of cyberware (the medic handled it, she had her own clinic), leave the bodies for the ghouls, implant any cyber eyes we didn't need into the ghouls (as a gesture of good faith, and to keep them happy), and then clean and sell the cyberware later. Frankly, it made plenty of sense and it worked pretty well. With multiple solid faces in the party they got about 25% of the base cost of the items back (-50% for second hand gear, -50% in for profit margins for the sellers). There's no reason for them to get a reputation as organ leggers or anything like that, they just covered their tracks (and sometimes installed the gear in themselves). No one needs to know where the gear came from, after all.

JaronK

I find the responses indicating that the GM should tightly control the amount of income the players can access to be a little off putting.
Having said that, I tend to spend a lot of time playing more sandboxy systems where DM's create worlds and then it's up to the players to drive story.
In such systems paying attention to what's going on and making plans to increase wealth is a good thing and appropriately rewarded.


I just remember that when I was trying to kit myself out a troll with cyberarms, to get them at the level of reaction, body, strength and armor that came close to matching my trolls natural stats would have cost about 40k a piece.
This guy had two arms. Even at 20% return that's going to be a big bump to the 8k per participant we were making from the run.

I figured that if the GM was going to throw crazy well kitted out guys at us on a run that paid so lightly then we sort of earned the reward of the cyber by taking down the troll.



Interesting to read the differing opinions on whether the stigma is that of an organ-legger or something a lot less serious.

Do Cyber Doc's typically trade ware? or are they usually engaged for installation by a client who has already sourced the ware through other channels?

Ok, seriously, game balance is a lie, it's always been a lie. There is no such thing in a roleplaying game. GROUP balance is important, which is why varying degrees of optimization within the group sometimes create problems. But as the GM, you can do ANYTHING anyway. The world balance could be skewed, if your PCs get "too powerful", but honestly, how likely is that to happen when they are earning maybe 10% of a run's payment in addition? Now if they suddenly get double or triple from selling scavenged stuff, well, then obviously the run was WAY underpaid, because the OpFor had so much expensive stuff. IF at some point you find a player you can't deal with anymore, talk to him. Or shift the scale of the campaign. I've even had players come to me and say "hey, I know our characters are strong, but right now we've got too much machineguns and too little knives and knobkerries. Can we change the focus a bit? Tone things down?" And THEN you accomodate them. Make them spend more in expenses. Make them "lose" some of their powerful gear.

And if you're just scared they will make too much cash elsewhere and then turn down your runs, then that's also your fault, because obviously you're not making your runs interesting - or well paid - enough.

Game balance is, and has always been, an excuse for railroaders, because their campaigns suddenly stop working when PCs leave their direct grasp.

Yes your deffinitions are right, and I agree.

BUT:

Rep on the streets is by word of mouth. What this means is that exaggerations, speculation and sheer gossip make an important part of it. So yes, they may not be full-fledged organleggers, but the rumor has it that they eat metahuman meat after they cut up the cyber, or that, since sevond hand 'ware is not so hot, they also sell the occasional liver to pay up the bills, or that -gasp- (spoken in whispers) their mage uses the corpses to animate them, use them for Sheddim possession or to summon Blood Spirits.
Sure, some may know the truth, but many will go for the juicier parts and believe them: cue Tamanous contacting them for a juicy deal, creepy Johnsons with a snuff simsense habit and medcorp fixers looking for testing new drugs for the good of humanity...
The reputation may be confirmed depending on whether they follow these jobs or not, but it will affect their careers for ever.

And yes, they still get the rep for being cold SOB's.

I thought I made it clear that there's a difference between "maybe 10% of a run's payment in addition" and … lots more.

If game balance is 'a lie', then just give your players anything they want, for free. Oh, they like having a smooth challenge curve and the sense of progress without things being too easy? That's game balance.

You certainly do have a wonderful time telling me what I can and can't do in my own games. You must be a riot in your own.

That being said, kindly stop telling me how to do my fucking job. That's the players' concern, not yours.

Now that I've got that out of the way, scavenging cyber is a possibility for some side bucks. My players have done it once or twice with some pieces where they can, but they aren't about to haul bodies home to carve them open to get all the good bits out. The time it takes, however, is time they could be spending on other pursuits that could provide a better return, or net favors from their contacts, or even get paying gigs from said contacts. The court of 'public' opinion could also work against them if they're all about tearing bodies apart, as has been mentioned. NPC's I think up have opinions and motivations as well, and if the team street doc starts garnering a reputation for having bodies come in and nothing go out - well, they're going to lose business as people will start to wonder if they're going to 'disappear' if they have survivable wounds.

There's a balance between nuyen gained and reputation maintained.

Oh, I'll always argue against people who get that god-complex as soon as they start GMing. I can't say what you're really like as a GM, obviously, but a few things you said really tick me off. Powertrip GMs just have to die out. The GM is just one more player, period. So, if you act all high and mighty about YOUR game, you're just just a horrible GM, that's all.

BUT that being said, if your players put up with you, that's their predicament.



Actually... you don't NEED any rules to tell you what you get and what you don't. It's just a social convention to use stuff like that - and to maintain group balance. However, obviously dramatic progression is worth something. If you have that good grasp of things that you can judge just what your players need so that they fit into your slice of the game world... phew, that's no small feat. Especially since the game really doesn't help you much to "balance" itself via money.

I just take the approach that since I'm playing the WORLD, it's up to the world to adapt to the more powerful players.

While true, that's not always good or fun. It's like skipping to the last level of a game; you miss the middle. *If* that's what the players want, it *can* be done. That's not the same as saying that there's no such thing as a middle, or that the nice progression can't be ruined.

I didn't say that it's impossible to play SR with scavenging cyber. I said that it has to fit into the proper, fun system of challenge, reward, pacing, advancement.

I'm not sure that SR actually progresses too smoothly, I must say. The weird cost scaling of things, for example. If you're saving up for one big piece of (high grade) cyber or bioware, then you're likely to not advance at all for a while. Or the high cost of raising higher level skill groups. These things happen in rare steps, rather than as a continuous progression. Which means that all that while, while you are ramping up the challenge, the PC isn't actually changing. And I've seen enough campaigns where people who were saving up like that then got left out in the cold, because the campaign finished, or they got shipped off into the final battle without their desired piece of gear. OR the GM had to suddenly hand out gifts, or else his runners wouldn't stand a chance in the final encounters.

Which just leads me to believe that paying too close attention to all of this isn't worth it on the long run. At least, you have to work with the players closely to make things work out like that.

YMMV, as always.

I suspect it's like being a police officer: some people do it to protect and serve their community, others do it because you get to bully people.

Hmm. As sweeping generalizations go, this one rings true and false.

When I'm the GM, I want my players to be making decisions that matter. A huge part of their decision space is resource allocation, so I want them to know much ¥ they'll have and a ballpark estimate of how much they can expect in the future. Same deal with Karma: what you want to buy with it depends greatly on how much of it you expect to get. IMHO it's my job to set reasonable expectations, and then let the players play the game by those rules to the best of their ability.

It is a game, and the rules do matter in so far as the player's decisions make good or poor use of those rules.

Cheers, -- N

Oh, there is obvious merit to that. It's just not ABSOLUTELY necessary for a roleplaying game. That being said, it's an established part of SR, however you see it. I just disagree with a kind of WBL, like in D&D.

[edit]I meant resource management is important and established. RULES, however, are ESSENTIAL to decision-making. Even in freeform you are using implicit rules. If ya, don't, it all falls apart. (Been there.)

I see PC looting (of any kind) as a symptom that the GM isn't giving out enough rewards or that the GM has over-equipped the opposition for the mission. Hence when I GM and if my players loot, I will increase the mission rewards or reduce what I have equipped the enemy with.

Most of the time I see the response to player looting as one that punishes the players that do so. I think that addresses the symptoms but does not get to the root of the matter.

You sound like a psychologist or a medical person.

I doubt it is as simple as 'players loot because GM isn't giving enough loot' or 'players loot because they are greedy'. I think the first and best reaction to looting for a GM is simply asking the players "Why are you doing this?" Perhaps also "Is you're character really cool with this?". First possibly gets at what the problem really is. Maybe the guy was just crazy cybered and they thought they could get good money on it as opposed to thinking they need to scrape out every last nuyen. Maybe they've not been able to buy any kind of upgrade in the last 4 runs because they can't afford anything due to not enough income. And yeah, maybe they're just being greedy. Adjust your response from there based on the responses.