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Seth
This is a newbie question about drones: how are they affected by recoil?

I have a vague memory of a one liner somewhere in the rule book that "they are not affected by recoil", but I cannot track this down. I can kind-of see why they might be more resilient to recoil than humans with land based drones, but I struggle to see how that could apply to (for example) a hover drone.

I'd appreciate it if anyone could point me to a place in the source books where it discusses this matter

Thanks
Makki
RC=Body
Seth
Thanks!

Can I add more recoil compensation, for example for gas vent on the gun?
Medicineman
QUOTE (Makki @ Nov 16 2010, 04:49 AM) *
RC=Body

I thought it was BOD x2 ? And
only for Drones (IIRC) Vehicles are Immune to Recoil ?!?

And yes you can add recoil comp to the Weapon itself(Gas Vent,Electronic Firing f.e.)

HokaHey
Medicineman

Saint Sithney
Drones do not have to worry about recoil by the base rules. RC = body is an optional rule. A popular optional rule.
Any gun can take modifications before being installed onto a drone. The drone body = RC recoil bonus isn't listed in the RC compatibility section, so there's nothing to work with from there. A gas-vent shouldn't be any kind of problem though, not like a personalized grip, sling or fore-grip on a drone mount...
Seth
My reason for asking was that I am not very familiar with drones, so I sat down to see how much damage they could do

With a full burst from an smg on a drone, assuming 1 get the minimum 1 success, I am doing 5 + 9 + 1 = 15points of damage. This is a lot of damage! Even a lot of armour is unlikely to knock more than say 8 damage off this. The normal problem of full burst (its hard to get 9 points of recoil compensation, so it is often inaccurate) doesn't seem to apply if you don't apply the optional rules. There are still ammunition problems, but its much easier to get chain fed ammo on a drone I feel
Yerameyahu
Yup, they're really strong. It's insanity not to use the RC=Body rule, but they're strong anyway, and that's typically a *lot* of RC. I definitely agree that weapon mods that don't make sense shouldn't be allowed.
Dreadlord
In my game, the rigger was definitely WAY out of balance with the rest of the party until I enacted the RC=BOD rule from Arsenal. Of course, he just started using BIGGER drones... ohplease.gif

He is defintely addicted to "More Dakka!"
Draco18s
The solution to that, Dreadlord, is to drop a high-force lightning ball on the drones.

That will ruin a rigger's day.

(My last rigger started with 5 drones, the lightning ball outright blew up one of them and took the rest out of the fight from the "stun" and I was only ever able to field two of them at the same time in future runs, due to repair costs and time)
Raiki
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Nov 16 2010, 02:02 PM) *
The solution to that, Dreadlord, is to drop a high-force lightning ball on the drones.

That will ruin a rigger's day.

(My last rigger started with 5 drones, the lightning ball outright blew up one of them and took the rest out of the fight from the "stun" and I was only ever able to field two of them at the same time in future runs, due to repair costs and time)


I may have to do that to the rigger that's going to be playing in my upcoming game. His drones are just fine: 2 LEBD-1s with Ares White Knights, that one blimp drone with the retrans unit and the microdrone deployment rack, and about a dozen Dragonfly drones (I'm AFB and don't remember the exact name).

It's his van I'm truly worried about: A highly modified Ares Citymaster, with 2 deploy/retrieve drone racks for the LEBD-1s, chameleon coating, spoof chip, reprogrammable license plate, extra armor, extra cargo space, and...oh yeah...a main gun (I think it's called the Ares Vindicator Heavy Assault Cannon, but again, AFB) mounted on a turret that pops out of the roof.


And to be even remotely on topic, our group uses the Recoil=Bodyx2 rule, and it works out pretty well. Negates the problem of the rigger trying to mount an SMG on his dragonfly drones.



~R~
Aku
mm, you cant really put weapons on anything smaller than a medium drone (weapon mounts = body/3 rounded down, p. 341 SR4)
Raiki
Yeah, I know...that last line was really just for comedic effect. Not a bad reference to toss into this thread though, I suppose.

Would it have come out better as "Keeps the rigger from trying to mount HV-modded Thunderstruck Gauss Cannons on his Doberman"?





~R~
Aku
nah, i would just point out that thats larger than an SMG, and so can't fit in a weapon mount biggrin.gif
sabs
I couldn't find the extra cargo mod.

But without it.. he's sitting at 18 modifications points

city/road masters only have 16 body.

So his citymaster is currently illegal smile.gif

takeoff/landing drone racks 3 each for 6
Armor 1
chameleon coating 2
reinforced weapon mount 2
concealed visibility 3
heavy turret flex 4

for 18
Raiki
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 16 2010, 02:32 PM) *
I couldn't find the extra cargo mod.

But without it.. he's sitting at 18 modifications points

city/road masters only have 16 body.

So his citymaster is currently illegal smile.gif

takeoff/landing drone racks 3 each for 6
Armor 1
chameleon coating 2
reinforced weapon mount 2
concealed visibility 3
heavy turret flex 4

for 18



I could just be misremembering something, but as I recall it was legal as built. I'll post the actual stats when I get back to my books. It's entirely possible that I'm just remembering the high armor as a modification when it comes standard, and the coating might just be a reprogrammable paint job and not ruthenium. We'll find out when I get home I suppose.


~R~
Yerameyahu
Body*2 is almost certainly way too much RC; at least make them buy some GV. biggrin.gif
Raiki
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 16 2010, 05:29 PM) *
Body*2 is almost certainly way too much RC; at least make them buy some GV. biggrin.gif



It is quite a bit for the larger drones, but thems the rules. It does help out a little for the smaller drones, but for the Steel Lynx et all, well...yeah.





~R~
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Draco18s @ Nov 16 2010, 12:02 PM) *
The solution to that, Dreadlord, is to drop a high-force lightning ball on the drones.

Unfortunately the "electrical shielding" armor mod is pretty cheap.

As for recoil, if you use Body=RC, that just encourages everyone to only use Ingram White Knight LMGs. Integral RC 5 on top of whatever else should take care of even full auto recoil.



-k
Yerameyahu
Sure, but they were using that anyway.
sabs
The Ingram White Knight is the prettiest LMG.
All the cool drones are mounting it.
Whipstitch
Agreed. The WK and Ares Alpha are sorta why I never really bought too heavily into the "ZOMG, DICEPOOL INFLATION" stance on Arsenal, aside maybe from FFBA. We've always had a couple stupidly good guns.
Neraph
QUOTE (Raiki @ Nov 16 2010, 02:48 PM) *
It is quite a bit for the larger drones, but thems the rules. It does help out a little for the smaller drones, but for the Steel Lynx et all, well...yeah.

No, actually, them's not the Rules (as in, printed material). That's a house rule from an optional rule.

1) Actual Rule: Vehicles/Drones ignore recoil.
2) Optional Rule: Vehicles/Drones have RC = Body.
3) Your House Rule: Vehicles/Drones have RC = Bodyx2.
Raiki
Well, that came off as a bit passive aggressive. We've always used what we assumed was the standard variant rule (yes, I understand the inherent contradiction of standard variant, but in this case it's applicable). Having looked up the (highly elusive) variant again, it does appear that you are correct.

Now, on to the write-up that I said I'd post when I got home.

Ares Citymaster (or Roadmaster...depending on who you ask):
Comes standard with: Life Support 1, Personal Armor 6, 2 gun ports.


16 Modification slots:

1 Small Landing drone rack: 3 slots (Turns out he nix'd the 2nd one, that's where part of the confusion came from)
Ruthenium Coating: 2 slots
Reinforced, Concealed, Flexible Heavy Turret: 9 slots
Metahuman Adaptation: 1 slot (The rigger is a troll)
Road Strip Ejector: 1 Slot
Spoof Chip: 0 slots
Morphing License Plate: 0 slots
Total: 16 slots

Weapon mounted on turret: GE Vanquisher Heavy Autocannon. 11P damage, -6 AP, Fires in FA mode only-using minigun rules. Total damage code from full burst: 25P -6AP, no uncompensated recoil.



Well, there you have it. A vehicle worthy of any running team, and with enough firepower and resilience to take on most non-military forces. Going to make things interesting if the runners ever get in a car chase, that's for sure.


~R~
sabs
The roadmaster and city master have slightly different armor ratings.
Draco18s
Keep in mind that burst damage doesn't apply when comparing DV to armor to determine stun or physical damage.
Raiki
@ Sabs: I was under the impression that the "Citymaster" was just a typo/leftover in Arsenal. The picture for the Roadmaster is labeled as Citymaster, but there are no stats or any writeup for a "Citymaster".

@Draco: That's true, but 11P is fairly high already, and with the rigger's gunnery pool it will be enough to punch most things. He might not take out another roadmaster or a tank, but...y'know.






~R~
sabs
P351 SR4A
QUOTE
Ares Citymaster (Riot Control Vehicle) 1 5/30 120 3 16 20 3 20R 51,200 nuyen.gif

P110 Arsenal
QUOTE
Ares Roadmaster -1 10/30 120 2 16 16 2 4 48,000 nuyen.gif


They are slightly different pieces of hardware.
Whipstitch
Yeah, the Roadmaster appears to basically be the more-or-less "street legal" trim of the Citymaster. It has restricted gear like gun ports instead of a wonderfully illegal external remote control turret. In my games it's very nearly the same chassis but sees more use by 2nd tier security firms and transport companies that want a "prestige" vehicle but can't really legally justify rolling around with heavy vehicle weapons.
Raiki
QUOTE (sabs @ Nov 17 2010, 05:23 PM) *
P351 SR4A

P110 Arsenal


They are slightly different pieces of hardware.



Fair enough, I stand dually corrected. Thanks for the information. Honestly, the gun ports on the roadmaster would suit my party better than the extra turret anyway. This way the gunbunny has something to do during car chases. Still a sweet ride either way, though.




~R~
Neraph
QUOTE (Raiki @ Nov 17 2010, 02:15 PM) *
@ Sabs: I was under the impression that the "Citymaster" was just a typo/leftover in Arsenal. The picture for the Roadmaster is labeled as Citymaster, but there are no stats or any writeup for a "Citymaster".

Also check the errata to see that they named the picture wrong.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Nov 16 2010, 12:29 PM) *
Body*2 is almost certainly way too much RC; at least make them buy some GV. biggrin.gif


A tripod or a gyrostabilization harness both provide 6 points of RC.
I don't really see a gun hard-bolted to the chassis of a Steel lynx as being less stable than a gyro arm or a three-legged kick stand...
cybertier
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 19 2010, 10:15 AM) *
A tripod or a gyrostabilization harness both provide 6 points of RC.
I don't really see a gun hard-bolted to the chassis of a Steel lynx as being less stable than a gyro arm or a three-legged kick stand...


In comparison i think you are right (altough with body 4 a steel lynx is probably more a Carbon fiber-reinforced polymer* lynx and thus probably not very heavy)
But you can still add more RC to the weapons and with Body*2 this is nearly unnecessary except vor gatlings or HV weapons.

I guess the rule is there for balancing instead to reflect the reality.

And with your Body*2 rule i hope your team never fights someone rigging a cyborg-body like: otomo bod 6, thing out of on official run which i wont spoil bod 7 or tomino bod 10 + Body Stabilizer 2
I soooo want to rig a thing with 2 Gatlings mounted with 0 recoil smokin.gif Better yet the Ares Variant which is called Madcat and in our world looks excatly like that (the mecha not the animal wobble.gif )


*thats the name for the stuff wiki came up with wink.gif i am no native speaker
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