I'm curious when the paper dollar/nuyen fell out of total use in the UCAS, like when would the last bank to carry and use paper money have closed it's doors.

It isn't. They mention in Seattle 2072 that Seattle makes extensive use of it, and that it's still in use in the rest of the UCAS.

$ are still in Use but more in Low Life Styles and "Backwater Areas"


He who still dances the Quadriga
Medicineman

This is always a sticking point with me and my players.
How the hell do you bribe someone or get paid on the sly with a credstick or worse...just an account.

Hey door guy, if you go check your private account, to which I shouldn't have access, I just gave you 100 nuyen...just go check...I promise...

That and datasteals with no such thing as a hard drive bug me.
It takes a lot of possibility out of a story when there is no such thing as a physical computer terminal.
Why would a hacker ever leave their squat?

Grumble grumble.

Well with a credstick you would just give them the whole thing since they are not registered to any one person or just transfer the amount to another creadstick of the person you're bribing has one . But yeah transferring to a account would leave a digital trail that may not lead back to you if use a fact throw away SIN/account but would show up on the other guys records which could be bad for them an d less likely to take a bribe.

Also corporations do still issue scrip and other forms of currency.

It's all handwaving. Try to figure out how to do electronic banking without effectively unbreakable encryption. In SR4 you can see and decode all the traffic between the bank and "certified credstick", so you can just duplicate the transaction. Forever, and for an infinite number of transactions.

Oh, except that the mysterious power of developer fiat says that you can't.

So don't try to figure out how banking works, it "just does".

I've actually kept cash, and even credsticks in the game. Cash is cash, plain and simple. Even the megas would appreciate its uses, especially when it comes to the shadows. As for the credsticks it's still just that. I mean, I can pay for shit online, true, but I also carry around my wallet with my bank card and crap, too (woefully, it is generally empty of cash. Alas).

The other thing is, and granted it's not something I've ever seen written about in any of the fluff, but the homeless dude on the corner isn't going to have a comm with which to access and account, into which you are going to give him the "loose change". Despite the dark, dystopic, corporate greed driven world of Shadowrun, there are still going to be some people who would do that sort of thing.

I'm still not crazy about carrying around pockets full of small balance credsticks for my various sleaze needs.

I always go with.. there's corp and local script/paper money everywhere. Banks will even exchange it, at outrageously rediculous exchange rates, into

If you have UCAS Dollar, you can spend that anywhere in UCAS.
But not say, in a Renraku Arcology.

You mean, like Credit Cards?

Credit Cards aren't electronic Banking.

The banks giving out credit cards have to transfer ACTUAL money from 1 Institution to the other.

I'm not sure what you mean here, there is still data storage. Aside from interface options, like connecting to it magically, the matrix isn't much different than todays interwebs. A company that wants more privacy keeps thier important records on an independent network, which brings us to:



Some hackers never do go anywhere. Its up to the GM one whether thats ok or if he want to create conditions to get them on thier feet.

That's done in bulk.

Try stealing / destroying the hardware of a cloud network. - Good luck finding the right server somewhere on the globe.

Yeah, a lot like that, but different. Credit cards are not stored value tokens, they are just ways to move money into and out of bank accounts on the bank back end computers. But there is mandatory encryption required everywhere. Poke around the www.pcisecuritystandards.org web site a while.

For example:

Initial Roadmap: Point-to-Point Encryption Technology and PCI DSS Compliance

4 Components of P2PE Technology
When critically examining any P2PE solution, it is important for the merchant to consider all P2PE components. These include the technologies and mechanisms enabling how the cardholder data is accepted, and how the transaction progresses through the merchant environment – including transmission to the processor/acquirer. The P2PE solution must address potential attack vectors against each component and provide the merchant with the ability to confirm with confidence that associated risks have been addressed.

4.1 P2PE Domains
P2PE domains are the areas where specific controls need to be applied and validated. These domains may be managed and controlled by separate entities.
The forthcoming Validation Requirements for Point-to-Point Encryption will specify requirements and validation procedures for at least the following key domains:
• Encryption device
• Payment Application if applicable
• Merchant encryption environment, which includes all elements still subject to PCI DSS validation
• Encryption and decryption operations and key management
• Decryption environment
• Enhanced key management practices for the decryption environment
These domains are introduced below; further details will appear in the forthcoming Validation Requirements for Point-to-Point Encryption.

4.2 Encryption Device
In general, the data that must be encrypted includes the full primary account number (PAN) and sensitive authentication data (SAD).
Implementing an encryption function within the POI device requires security against both physical and logical compromise – including properly managing, storing, and protecting cryptographic keys. The considerations applicable to any device performing encryption of CHD or sensitive authentication data with the goal of simplifying PCI DSS validation scope include but are not limited to the following:
• Appropriateness of algorithm choice, key size, key lifetime, etc.
• How the confidentiality of secret and private keys is ensured
• How integrity and authenticity of public keys are maintained
• Physical security and tamper resistance of the device
• How integrity of software components and services is maintained (including integrity of any updates)
• Generation of audit events
• Physical penetration testing
• How side channel analysis is prevented
• Verification that plaintext data is not output from the device
• How access to plaintext account data prior to encryption is prevented by the POI device
• Device administration, including administration of cryptographic keys
• Thorough documentation by the developer to assure appropriate installation

Doesn't Seattle 2072 make mention of an upcoming "Paper Bill" in congress, meant to revive paper currency as a way to defeat the issues with electronic banking crime?

And in the end, they are just an issuer, a name, a number (with an additional "secret" printed on the back) and two dates. That's all that's needed to go shop with them.

and credit card fraud happens all the time
you're liable for any fraud
corporations spend millions a year dealing with credit card fraud.

Who wants to do that with 'hard currency'

credit cards are basically an IOU to a company that thinks it can collect on said IOU

So would Ares Corp script be called Damien Dollars.. I think Loftwyr would pay in gold peices. Woot, Aztechnolgy bringing pack Pesos. Horizon script would have a coupon on the back for a dollor off admission to Six Flags theme parks. Happy Thanksgiving Ya'll

Whaat?

You can dispute and remove any charge on your card within the first 30 days of purchase - including fraudulent charges. Being able to void those charges is what has car dealerships clamming up when someone slaps down a MasterCard for a down payment.

Depends on the credit card..

I work for a Credit Card company
Let me tell you we take our own sweet time voiding fraudulent charges, and we require all requests to be in writing, etc.. everything to make you not do it.

There's a large difference between making the process interminable and outright banning it.

By the way, could you drop the APR on my...

sure I'll drop it to our introductory rate of 29.99

It's horrible that this usury is still five points better than what I have currently.

Horrible.

TAKE NOTE SHADOWRUNNERS. If you want the big bucks, go into finance.

As for 'cashing' a certified credstick when your player character doesn't have a bank account....I would think there would still be a demand for check-cashing stores or similar booths in larger stores (like Walmart does with their check-cashing services). This is why most certified credsticks are tagged "Pay BEARER: CASH (amount)" much like a paper check is made out to cash for the bearer.
Just a thought.

Wait, what, really? Gezz, my card has an APR of like 6.75% or something.

Until relatively recently, 'Pay Cash or Do Without' was my mantra. This means I generally don't have much in the way of a credit score.

As a result, any card I'm offered caps at $500 and typically runs 32-35% in interest rates with little to no possibility of a raise in the limit - such as my current, $500 card at 34%. The one thing it has going for it is that I don't have to pay a 'membership fee' or like-minded garbage to keep it.

Gee that sucks. I pay no membership fees or anything like that either. On the other hand I don't get any miles or anything like that. I do get 1% back on everything I buy, but that's about it.

I'll say. It was the big reason why I didn't pick up Vice and Feral Cities with my SR4A 20th at GenCon.

Papa had to eat, after all.

That and a network connection to clearing house computer system. They are not stored value cards like credsticks, especially certified credsticks. Because of the fact that it explicitly says that you can't trace a certified credstick, if you duplicate one you have created untraceable funds.

Indeed, there are even rules for that.

That's extremely high, the sort of rates I'd rather associate with burly guys demanding payment with a baseball bat in had than a bank - I'll have to check but I think in France that's above the maximum legal rate. Can it work as an isntant debit card or are you stuck with monthly payment and interests on it ?

At such high rate, you're probably better off taking a regular loan and paying cash.



About certified sticks : basically all they register is how much cash is on it and which bank is backing it. There's about no way to tell who is currently holding it as the information isn't recorded anywhere. The issuing bank may keep records of where the initial money came from, but there's no guaantee of even that.
If that info is kept on a non-connected system, all you'll be able to tell by hacking the bank's computer is that account xy dumped n nuyens into the credstick issuing hole at one end, and that some credsticks that may or not match the amount thave been issued out of that pool. Not much toi make sense of...

Plus, the idea of stuffing a credstick down you favorite adult entertainer's g string seems less fun then fist fulls of corp scrip for a competing company

Corp Script is and was, mostly digital money. See Unwired (Forgers Art) and Corporate Download.

Simply because that's much cheaper than operating a mint yourself and as a bonus, it allow much more control about who spends it — only citizens are allowed to do so.

Not to mention you only have to try and fight digital forgery.

It's still in use just not common-a credit stick/comm is so much more ocnvenient than fumbling for paper.
I mean today RL I went Xmas shopping and spent some paper but other stuff it was just easier to use a card rather than carrying lots of paper.