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kzt
Not sure why Al Jazeera has the best English language coverage, but they seem to.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...5513755848.html
Dozens killed as security forces claim victory over drug gangs for control of the biggest shantytown in Rio de Janiero.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...5552233602.html
Police say gang leaders seen fleeing Rio de Janeiro slum after dozens killed in offensive targeting drug crime.

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/americas...7548384962.html
Armoured carriers roll into Vila Cruzeiro slum in Rio de Janeiro as security forces prepare to take on drug gangs.

Sengir
Probably because AJ is the only major English news site which has not degraded into a Twitter/Facebook aggregator with some celeb gossip in between wink.gif

Anyway, the story really reminds me of Free Derry and other areas which were effectively removed from British control in Northern Ireland.
hobgoblin
Gangs top out around guerrilla, while this reads like rolling in the army.

The gangs will scatter and go to ground, wait for the government to declare victory, and then start showing up again all over.
Brazilian_Shinobi
What's going on in Rio de Janeiro right now is something that has ocurred in Colombia for the last decade. The government is trying to seize control of the drug dealers and take control of the 'favelas'. The BOPE (Special Police Operations Battalion) has borrowed some APC from the Brazilian Marines to enter Vila Cruzeiro.
Garou
And i am going to travel there next week. smile.gif see you when i get back guys. smile.gif
Aku
QUOTE (Garou @ Nov 26 2010, 06:00 PM) *
And i am going to travel there next week. smile.gif see you when if I get back guys. smile.gif



fix'd biggrin.gif
Saint Sithney
Going to Rio, right? Not to the favelas... eek.gif

Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Saint Sithney @ Nov 27 2010, 02:18 AM) *
Going to Rio, right? Not to the favelas... eek.gif


It's pratically the same thing thoug. Rio de Janeiro is a city located in a bay surrounded by rocky walls circling the whole city. While the "civilized areas" are built in the valley, the favelas surround the entire city.

For instance, during the 2009-2010 new year's eve, gangers in the favelas shot in the air with their rifles during the countdown. People in Copacabana (the most crowded place in Rio during new year's eve) were shot by those bullets, flying from a few miles away.
Aku
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Nov 27 2010, 08:37 AM) *
It's pratically the same thing thoug. Rio de Janeiro is a city located in a bay surrounded by rocky walls circling the whole city. While the "civilized areas" are built in the valley, the favelas surround the entire city.

For instance, during the 2009-2010 new year's eve, gangers in the favelas shot in the air with their rifles during the countdown. People in Copacabana (the most crowded place in Rio during new year's eve)



I donno who did this. According to every Civ game i've EVER played. this would be a bad place to build a city. No resources AT ALL like that. Esh. where did these people get their city planning education from? Obviously, not Sid Meier.
Sengir
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Nov 26 2010, 02:10 PM) *
Gangs top out around guerrilla, while this reads like rolling in the army.

The gangs will scatter and go to ground, wait for the government to declare victory, and then start showing up again all over.

Which begs the question, what do the gangs actually gain from such open provocations of the state's authority? I mean controlling the blck markets on their turf and giving law enforcement the finger works without acting like you are the army of the place, and AFAIK the gangs don't hold any ambitions for governmental power...
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Aku @ Nov 27 2010, 03:24 PM) *
I donno who did this. According to every Civ game i've EVER played. this would be a bad place to build a city. No resources AT ALL like that. Esh. where did these people get their city planning education from? Obviously, not Sid Meier.

My guess, it made for a natural harbor.
kzt
QUOTE (Sengir @ Nov 27 2010, 09:39 AM) *
Which begs the question, what do the gangs actually gain from such open provocations of the state's authority? I mean controlling the blck markets on their turf and giving law enforcement the finger works without acting like you are the army of the place, and AFAIK the gangs don't hold any ambitions for governmental power...

The ranks of the armed thugs of ruthless drug dealers are not filled with idealists, libertarians or saints. Or geniuses.
Snow_Fox
The BBC has had pretty good coverage.
I think this is rather more like what happened in Jamaica earlier this year, the mass of the gangs can go to ground but if the army is rolling in looking for the bosses they will keep up the pressure to win. With the Olympics and World Cup coming up Brazil can't look like a crime ridden waste land.
flowswithdrek
QUOTE (Sengir @ Nov 26 2010, 10:52 AM) *
Probably because AJ is the only major English news site which has not degraded into a Twitter/Facebook aggregator with some celeb gossip in between wink.gif

Anyway, the story really reminds me of Free Derry and other areas which were effectively removed from British control in Northern Ireland.


Really?

I don't see much in the way of similarities bar some unfortunate civilian casualties. Blood Sunday was a civil rights march fired on by some overly nervous paratroopers that should not have been used as a civilian police force. Just because someone paints Free Derry on a wall does remove it from British control. Favelas are slums riddled with drug dealers, and the authorities are intentionally sending in the troops to weed them out.

PS That's Londonderry wink.gif

Peace!
Sengir
QUOTE (flowswithdrek @ Nov 28 2010, 02:15 AM) *
Blood Sunday was a civil rights march fired on by some overly nervous paratroopers that should not have been used as a civilian police force.

And this has to do what with the fact that a couple of places in Northern Ireland were effectively controlled by the IRA until Op Motorman? wink.gif

IMO the similarities are quite obvious: Guys with guns stake out their little claim, challange the state in broad daylight, and in the end have to be driven out with something heavier than the standard patrol car.

QUOTE
Favelas are slums riddled with drug dealers

OK, at that time the IRA were anything but drug dealers...plus ša change... wink.gif

QUOTE
PS That's Londonderry wink.gif

And I also lumped the various flavours of IRA together, and I'm not even feeling ashamed about it nyahnyah.gif
Snow_Fox
Again the Jamaican gangs are a better analogy. The IRA for all the drug sales, money laundering etc had ap olitical agenda too. What's going on in Rio is farm ore like Jamaica where the gangs are just that, drug gangs who defy the polcie and force a confrontation because of too much testosterone rather than a political agenda.
Brazilian_Shinobi
QUOTE (Aku @ Nov 27 2010, 11:24 AM) *
I donno who did this. According to every Civ game i've EVER played. this would be a bad place to build a city. No resources AT ALL like that. Esh. where did these people get their city planning education from? Obviously, not Sid Meier.


LOL. As long as the sea tiles have fish, it could make a city with lots of grains.

QUOTE (Sengir @ Nov 27 2010, 12:39 PM) *
Which begs the question, what do the gangs actually gain from such open provocations of the state's authority? I mean controlling the blck markets on their turf and giving law enforcement the finger works without acting like you are the army of the place, and AFAIK the gangs don't hold any ambitions for governmental power...


They are trying to scare the population so that the government would give up invading their turfs because they had no political power. This kind of thing worked in the past.
Besides, many city councelors, congressmen, etc. are paid by drug dealers to look the other way.


QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 27 2010, 06:43 PM) *
the BBC has had pretty good coverage
i think this is rather more like what happenedin Jamaica earlier this year, the mass of the gangs can go to ground but if the army is rolling in looking for the bosses they will keep up the pressure to win. With the olympics and World cup coming up Brazxil can't look like a crime ridden waste land.


Well, the clock is ticking, they better hurry.
Jizmack
QUOTE (Snow_Fox @ Nov 27 2010, 06:53 PM) *
Again the Jamaican gangs are a better analogy. The IRA for all the drug sales, money laundering etc had ap olitical agenda too. What's going on in Rio is farm ore like Jamaica where the gangs are just that, drug gangs who defy the polcie and force a confrontation because of too much testosterone rather than a political agenda.

Look closer to home (assuming you live in the USA)... "Mexican Drug War"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War
Critias
QUOTE (Garou @ Nov 26 2010, 06:00 PM) *
And i am going to travel there next week. smile.gif see you when i get back guys. smile.gif

Stay safe!
Saint Sithney
Here's a documentary on the favelas from last year.
Not a bad watch if you're trying to piece out how the barrens work for your game.

As you watch it, you might like to know that Spiderman was set up by a crooked cop during a pay-off and was shot to death (I suppose assassinated isn't an incorrect description,) last fall, if I'm remembering right, and Tola was captured a month or so back, a few days after having his left leg amputated (it having been shot for a 4th time.)
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