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Swing Kid
I have a couple questions about SIN's.

Is there any information out there on the creation and destruction of SIN's? By creation, I am not talking about false ID's (forged credsticks), but actual fake SIN's (the actual identity). By destruction, I am talking about eliminating an identity (not just faking a death record as fingerprints and DNA can still be linked to dead people.

KamikazePilot
QUOTE (Swing Kid @ Dec 13 2010, 04:38 PM) *
I have a couple questions about SIN's.

Is there any information out there on the creation and destruction of SIN's? By creation, I am not talking about false ID's (forged credsticks), but actual fake SIN's (the actual identity). By destruction, I am talking about eliminating an identity (not just faking a death record as fingerprints and DNA can still be linked to dead people.


well creating would begin with birthcertificate, life time of vacines, medical records, school records, and so on and so forth. most of the early childhood though still recorded is not even used in later life. most people probe only criminal records, credit history and employment history thats as far as most quick check procedures would go. some more nosey might want to know how you did in your high school studies, did you get imunised when you were a kid etc etc.
all of the childhood->now history can be falsfied. and via an electronic checkup there would be no difference to anyone else.
the difference is if you created a fake sin and said "went to XXXXXX high school" if you then dug up the XXXXXX high shool records and did not find that person then you are well on your way to exposing a fake. a real SIN would not be able to be exposed because he would have lived that life and generated all that history without needing to memorise fake things.

As for the destruction. better hope for Crash 2074 or something like that because it almost impossible.
The amount of places your data trail is recorded and kept and often kept on backups offsite/outside the matrix, deleting it all would be impossible. and any database running verification of data on whatever intervals would spot the missing record, even replacing an existing one with a fake would cause problems.

think of it like today. you fly into the USA say from Australia (where you only record you fingerptints if you have been busted by the coppers). so when you land they fingerprint you. since some of the allies of the USA also have police data sharing alliances now the australian police MAY have your fingerprints too.
Who knows who elese has your fingerprints. So how on earth are you going to destroy them all?
Fortinbras
Forging a Fake SIN requires a Forgery + Edit Program roll with a threshold of 32 x the SIN's rating with an interval of 1 week. A more extensive optional rule for making it a "real" SIN is found on p.96 of Unwired.

Getting rid of your SIN would probably require buying away the negative quality with Karma. Alternatively you can strip a SIN with a series of Hacking + Edit rolls on "challenging" nodes whose system rating is determined by your GM, who could also summarize the process by by making it an Extended Hack + Edit roll with a threshold of the SIN's rating times the System you are hacking.
Mardrax
Making a SIN dissappear without its subject having the Erased quality? Good luck.
Although of course that implies it's fully possible, yet difficult and time consuming to the point of being about as feasible as forging them yourself.

The feasibility of which raises the question of how people get by on it, of course. But that's been raised before, IIRC.
Swing Kid
Excellent responses gang (especially the rules-oriented stuff and the references from Fortinbras).

OK, let's talk Character Generation.

1). If you want to have had a legal SIN in the past, but want to start with it already erased, what character generation considerations do I need to think about (from rules perspective only)?
2.) If someone wants a fake SIN in character generation, what is the right way to do it (again from a rules-perspective)?

Our players network spans both 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, so if you guys have ideas that are (for some reason) different from system to system, I would be interested. Also, specific references is a great help.

Thanks so much for your ideas guys.
oinopion
QUOTE (Swing Kid @ Dec 13 2010, 07:15 PM) *
1). If you want to have had a legal SIN in the past, but want to start with it already erased, what character generation considerations do I need to think about (from rules perspective only)?
2.) If someone wants a fake SIN in character generation, what is the right way to do it (again from a rules-perspective)?

Ad 1. Do nothing. Your SIN was deleted, ergo you are SINless (default per RAW)

Ad 2. Pay Rating x 1000.
MikeKozar
QUOTE (oinopion @ Dec 13 2010, 11:32 AM) *
Ad 1. Do nothing. Your SIN was deleted, ergo you are SINless (default per RAW)


As he said. To offer some explanation, a SIN represents citizenship, and the issuing authority (e.g., the Megacorp) has the ability to cancel that SIN. It comes up often in fluff as displeasure on a corporate level. Flip off the wrong suit, and you'll find yourself SINless and on the street with everything you still own in a cardboard box in under five minutes. That cardboard box? That's your severance package.
CanRay
QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Dec 13 2010, 03:41 PM) *
As he said. To offer some explanation, a SIN represents citizenship, and the issuing authority (e.g., the Megacorp) has the ability to cancel that SIN. It comes up often in fluff as displeasure on a corporate level. Flip off the wrong suit, and you'll find yourself SINless and on the street with everything you still own in a cardboard box in under five minutes. That cardboard box? That's your severance package.

Actually, if they grabbed the cardboard box, they'd be guilty of theft of Corporate Property, as there was never any proof that it was purchased in the first place.

Which gets them a SIN again... And some time with Bubba The Love Troll.
Swing Kid
QUOTE (oinopion @ Dec 13 2010, 02:32 PM) *
Ad 1. Do nothing. Your SIN was deleted, ergo you are SINless (default per RAW)

Ad 2. Pay Rating x 1000.


Excellent, thanks. Where can I read about these two subjects? Couldn't find anything on it. Oh, and by Pay Rating, what do you mean?
MikeKozar
QUOTE (Swing Kid @ Dec 13 2010, 12:53 PM) *
Excellent, thanks. Where can I read about these two subjects? Couldn't find anything on it. Oh, and by Pay Rating, what do you mean?



Check out SR4A, pg 331-332. It lists the info (including price) on a Fake SIN. The fake SINS come in 6 ratings, and they cost 1000Y-6000Y based on rating. It's a pretty standard bit of gear.
kzt
Buy them in bulk, they don't last long.
KamikazePilot
QUOTE (Swing Kid @ Dec 14 2010, 05:15 AM) *
Our players network spans both 3rd Edition and 4th Edition, so if you guys have ideas that are (for some reason) different from system to system, I would be interested. Also, specific references is a great help.


After the crash 2064 many were erased. However there was a SIN amnesty, no questions asked get a brand spanking new SIN, the proper one.

So you could use those 2 options to swing for or against having a proper SIN if yuo need to.
oinopion
QUOTE (MikeKozar @ Dec 13 2010, 10:00 PM) *
Check out SR4A, pg 331-332. It lists the info (including price) on a Fake SIN. The fake SINS come in 6 ratings, and they cost 1000Y-6000Y based on rating. It's a pretty standard bit of gear.

Also page 266 SR4A for more in-depth discussion of SINs.
Blade
I'm not sure if it's canon, but I guess the French Foreign Legion could erase your old SIN and get you a new one.
CanRay
QUOTE (KamikazePilot @ Dec 13 2010, 07:03 PM) *
After the crash 2064 many were erased. However there was a SIN amnesty, no questions asked get a brand spanking new SIN, the proper one.

Oh, I'm sure there was some kind of screening done. A DNA/Fingerprint check to see if you had an "Unknown Criminal SIN" on file with Law Enforcement at the very least.

Also, I've commented on how difficult it probably was for residents of the Barrens of various cities to get to their "city hall" or "SIN Registration Station" by various PoliClubs, as well as other PoliClubs that tried their damnedest to get their SINless in the system (And thus voting for them in elections.).
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