I've been trying to find something that would let me do this and I havent had any luck so I come to the boards for ideas.

Most weapons are designed to be fired with only one arm, or two at most, but folks with Shiva Arms can have up to six arms. Is there any method to use those extra arms to reduce recoil? It seems to me that if a assault rifle was built with a Shiva Armed individual in mind you could get some recoil reductions.

Anybody got any ideas that would let me use shiva arms for recoil compensation?

we have a Houserule:
Using a Pistol with two Hands gives 1 Pt Recoil
same could be Done with a 3rd and 4th Arm for Assault Rifles (+1 Recoil)

with a Housedance
Medicineman

It makes no sense to hold a weapon with way too many arms. Coordination issues aside, the average SR weapon isn't optimised for that. I don'T see why any bonus should apply. If the rules don't say there is any, it's maybe because there isn't supposed to be any.

Where would you put those hands? Bleh, no.

Barrel, Magazine, grab the scope ...

Haha, that sounds so bad.

Well, thats sort of a silly way to look at it. You can have a grip installed underbarrel for example, and none of the weapons seem to be designed for 3 or more arms.

Maybe that's because having more than three arms is a very rare condition in Shadowrun.

An underbarrel grip is good for two arms. I see trouble fitting a third anywhere there. Besides, a weapon is only so big, and can fit only so many accessories. Where would you want to put the other 3 grips?

First you extend the barrel and add extra grips into it. I know, it probably looks awful.

At any rate, I would gladly accept that a runner with shiva arms and knowledge of weapons design and the resources for that, designed a weapon that would benefit of the extra arms for the recoil, but I would rulet it an Exotic Ranged Weapon.

I've never thought for an instant that Shadowrun has realistic recoil rules, but ones sufficient for a role playing game. Take into account that wielding two weapons only splits your dice-pool and has little to no effect on recoil unless uncompensated for. It seems to me that recoil would stack much faster firing an SMG one-handed than it would using both hands.

Strength or Body should also play a role in recoil, as someone who weighs 60kg will have less control over a heavy machine gun than someone who weighs 120kg. Likewise, someone with a less-than-muscular physique will have a harder time than an augmented war troll.

If both were taken into account, the number of arms would be less relevant than the STR/BOD. After all, a STR/BOD 2 character could be using both hands to fire an SMG and achieve roughly equal RC as a STR/BOD 8 character dual wielding the same SMG. By extrapolation, a STR/BOD 2 Shiva-six-arms character could achieve similar recoil compensation to a STR/BOD 24 character, given that the weapon was modified heavily to accept proper bracing from six arms...

I'd say that a weapon properly designed for the use of a six-armed individual might benefit from extra recoil comp. It would take a damned-fine weapons designer, I think. Kind of reminds of The Princess Bride (book) where the master swordsmith worked for months on end to craft a sword for an expert swordsman with six fingers.

Okay, that might work, but it sure won't work with an average weapon. Plus, the skill would be exclusively for this weapon, so the abuse potential is significantly lower.

.....oO(so 1 pt more Recoil is extreme abuse potential.... )


an exotic Weapon... quite ...Harsch in my Eyes
what if the Foregrip would be extended for 2 Hands ?

YahtaHey
Medicineman

If you don't want me talking to you, medicineman, don't talk to me. Quite simple really.

You two, ignore each other - once and for all. Don't reply to a posting made by the other, no matter its content. Got that?

There actually is a rule for this in Arsenal, in the 'More Ways to Die' section under Advanced Combat Rules. Unfortunately, it's based solely off strength, but other than that it's pretty good. Strength 6-9 gets you 1 point, 10-13 gets 2, 14-17 gets 3, and 18+ gets 4.

I personally use the house rule of averaging strength and body, and to balance out the fact that you now have to increase 2 stats instead of 1, I lower the threshold for each level by 1. This makes it slightly easier to qualify for the lower levels (trolls get 1 recoil pretty much free of charge, as opposed to the 10 points they would need to spend otherwise), while making it a bit more difficult to get the higher modifiers (that same troll who got the first point free, now has to spend 80 build points to get the second point, instead of 65).



~R~

Ok, so given that, are there any rules for making new guns? I know street magic has rules for making new spells, is there anything analogous to that for weapon design?



Heh, I like the comparison, it seems apt.



Well, I see the reasoning behind it being an exotic weapon if it was specifically designed for more than two arms.

Certainly more exotic than some of the existing options, anyway.

No, there are no rules (per se) for weapon or vehicle creation, just mods. The GM should determine a suitable high Threshold for the Extended Test, set an interval (no guidance in the rules, whatever seems fair), and require appropriate tools (a Shop?). That's after you create the design, which is its own test (again, little to no guidance in the rules). The safest thing would be a variant of an existing gun, one for which the design is available (legally or not), like an AK-series?

So, it could go like this: acquire design of existing gun. Modify design. Acquire tools and materials (possibly that existing gun, if only for parts). Build/Repair extended test. Most likely, this is all just a massive bill to your fixer, who'll contact a street gunsmith, who'll fab your unique custom gun. I still feel like 4 hands is a reasonable maximum, though, and only for a little extra RC (2-ish?).

See thats part of the reason why I looked into this. I did some forum searching on shiva arms and found that supposedly (I haven't done any hard testing or number crunching myself) the "sweet spot" is four arms. Any more is less that useful when you compare cost:ratio.

So I figured "Well, maybe thats the case with blades or with small arms but what about a weapon designed to take advantage of six arms?" Cuz really, if I'm going to be a freak with extra arms why just go for the "mildly freaky four arms" when six is on the table.

Id definitely say that having six arms should have a tangible benefit. Maybe 6 arms for 3 or maybe four recoil, considering that an extra grip (for just one hand) is a whole point of RC compensation by itself.

The main problem is that all your six arms are roughly the same length, have their articulations at the same places, so finding way for each of them to grip a weapon in a way that helps stabilize it without colliding with the other arms sounds complicated, likely to result in some mess of slings (grabbed by the lower arms) and extra-long grips.

The lower arms can still be useful in helping to stabilize the shooter rather than the weapon, and to speed the reloading by readying ammo and inserting it without having to change your grip on the weapon.

So, there are a few unrelated things going on here:

I'm saying that even a custom-made weapon is stretching things for 6 hands, that's all. There are only so many places, and 4 is about the number, I think. It's just a gut call.

There's no reason that having the 'full retard' arm count *should* help you with any given task. Besides, you've got plenty of *other* things you could be doing; it's not like the choice is 'extra RC, or waste of flesh'.

Honestly, there are so many ways of getting RC already. Presumably, you've already considered and dismissed the more popular 'carry more guns' approach? It has the benefits of being rules-legal and setting-appropriate.

You might get more creative and think about using the hands to brace your whole body, on a doorframe, some cover, etc. Work *with* the world, you know? (Edit: Ha, Dahrken, you ninja'd me! Exactly. )

Also - because we are definitvely out of "subtle" territory here - you can toss grenades with your free hands. Pin them down with suppressive fire and grenade the hell out of their cover !

Or hold a flashpak, some slappers, a taser… those crazy extra arms aren't useless if they're not helping you shoot more bullets than everyone else. I think if a player tried it just for munchkiny purposes, I'd give him a 'big target' penalty for dodging.

So, I'm obviously not an artist or a weapon designer but this is how I picture it in my head. This is how the weapon would look from the butt if it was 2 dimensional and inexpertly rendered .

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v15/Ramaloke/GunGrips.jpg

There are grips on the all around the top to brace it and one on the bottom which would be the standard location for a grip, and a grip under the barrel as well, for a total of six. Obviously this isn't going to be a weapon you can hide, it would be a heavy machine gun (hence the size of the circle, as these things have multiple rotating barrels). It would also be large enough to almost require a hip bracing mod and some sort of harness.

Yeah, I'd considered the "just carry more guns route" but my mind sort of latched onto this concept.

A seriously horrible combo would be to use the the gun for supressive fire and the extra arms to send hand grenades int whatever cover they're pnned into... Or shoot the gun with ultrasound/radar sights and toss smoke grenades for cover.

With 6 arms, you'll probably be able to to it in a rather impressive way : two arms for firing the gun, two to keep it fed and the last two to lob grenades. Or even worse reload with one arm only and use the one just fred to hold a ballistic shield...

Of course some sort of improved ambidextry is highly recommended to pull out that sort of stunts without ending up in an hopeless mess of tangled limbs and live grenades.

If only Ambidextry didn't need to be bough 5 times if you have six arms. /sigh

Not doable, supressive fire is a complex action and you can only fire multiple weapons at the same time with simple actions.

Depending on the weapon I woulldn't argue the ability to use some extra arms on the weapon. Any AR with a quad rail can mount various extra grips just about anywhere you want them. The thing is I don't know if more arms is actually going to help at all, at a certain point, not too far past the need for 2 hands, your entire body is being kicked around by the recoil rather then just your arms. Recoil compensation on the weapon itself is your best bet, stop it before it gets to you.

Well, at a minimum, you should be able to use several arms to grab stable points around you, and maybe gain the benefits of a tripod.




-k

Well, more like the benefits of foot anchors, I'd say. Use gecko gloves.

it looks like a lady bug....

I'd rather just carry a riot shield to fire behind. Mobile cover!