I am tired of reading posts that add little to the discussion and basically sound like children sulking because they didn't get their candy.

If a book has errors and inconsistencies, then please post the errors and how to fix them or at least question how they would be fixed. When we bring up issues let's ask for some clear errata on obvious errors and vote with our cash if we value a book or not. Overall though lets make this a constructive board instead of a pouting emo one.

Which reminds me could we get some basic errata for runner's companion especially for quality costs?

I can deal with the fluff myself, but I would like the main rules to be consistent.

Is there a constructive point to this thread or is it simply to vent and bait at others you disagree with as it appears to be? Because as it appears, you've made a thread with the sole purpose of name calling a group of Users.

Human nature. Policing morals and censoring emotions doesnt work on any level of humanity, from forums to government. People bitch and moan. Its what we were born to do. The alternative is to pick up arms and fight the issue which is often in many countries illegal. Crying works. we learn that as kids and women are experts in the matter. Have you ever seen a woman that did not get her way in an argument where she used crying?

Even at work where you would think the work email is for professional behaviour i get sales reps, legisticsa dministrator bitching and moaning like someone stole their lollies. And teling them to grow up and HTFU only gets YOU reprimanded for verbal abuse. Like WTF?
so you learn to cry too regardless of much your ego says "dont do it bro. its beneath you"

Plus watching other people cry and moan is the better alternative of watching TV which has nothing usefull on anyway. Its like my own personal soap opera right here on my screen in text mode

Actually the point was instead of filling a "useful thread" with more empty posts that don't address the issues or questions to create a thread that tells people to try to stay on topic and be productive. It is one thing where people say it once, but when they post in multiple threads with little more than they are unhappy it adds nothing to the discussion. As a reader I would like to get to the core of the issues instead of trying to flip several pages to get back to the discussion.

So you dont like derailed threads. I'm sure whoever derailed your thread last time and made you angry is feeling rather bad themselves. HTFU

Given that this is a forum and not a court mediated by a magistrate you cant just enforce free will to be sidelined and only factual on topic content be used to fill the responces to this thread. You want facts go to the library reference section.
This sounds rather like you want us to behave and the moderators to moderate like the WoW elitistjerk forums. no thank you. free will FTW. let the people have their say and use your brain to differentiate of what is usefull and what is not for your liking.

I wonder if we can derail this thread as a factual proof that you are doing it wrong

There is a difference between moderating a board and moderating a thread. If a thread is about war and a quarter of the posts are attacking developers and whining without constructive criticism then I feel moderators should move those posts to a different thread. Let people have their say, but don't let it get in the way of those people who read for information.

It seems whenever a new product comes out there is someone who is not happy and has to basically spam every thread about how unhappy they are. That is ok when it is constructive, but when it comes to just voicing displeasure especially when it is a rule question then it add nothing. War being the prime example now. At least if people put down a bitching thread and state it in the description people know if they want to read it or not.

And if you are going to derail the thread I assume you will start with rules questions and how to balance issues with the game.

How about, instead of complaining about how you disagree with people, you heed your own advice and be constructive about it?


Board it. Yarr. Think of the Seamen!

There are some fans.. who really care about the Line. Who have been playing Shadowrun for 21 years. Who are genuinely upset (like Episode I upset) at the Quality and Direction of the work from CGL. Many of these people are so upset that they aren't being coherent and instead are lashing out. Some other people are being super defensive and somewhat fanboi. The two mixed together makes for some truly awesome spewing.

Having played Shadowrun 1 and what I call shadowrun 1.5.. and then basically stopped playing it when FASA went out of business. I'm kind of inbetween. I've been playing shadowrun a long ass time, but I stopped playing it for basically all of SR3. I've looked at the quality and content of the sourcebooks. I even went out and downloaded a full sr3 library to sorta backfill some of my knowlegde on plots and stuff. And I have to say I am not really sure that CGL has been a good caretaker for Shadowrun.

SR4 is not their system. They just reprinted it.
SR4A is really the first CGL BBB and it has a significant amount of undocumented rules and fluff rewrites. Since then, every CGL product I've seen has basically been a reprint and modify of a SR3 product.
The only 2 books that seem to be genuinely "original content" are the 6WAlmanac and War!
This worries me, because they're crap. They have /major/ errors in editing. They are disorganized and badly layed out. And on a more subjective matter, they don't make much sense to me. War being the worse example. War! Isn't even about War! It's about Bogota, and some hotspots, 1/2 of which aren't even war zones.

I'm not sure what CGL has brought to the Shadowrun table at all, that is quality.
I like SR4A for the layout, and the multibook index. Both of those are cool. But overall .. meh..

You realize we now have a mandate to do a piracy issue, right?

That's South East Asia

YYYAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Certainly. Cyberpirates could use a revision, too. Could be a part of the Ocean War issue.

I thougth the Ocean War issue was going to be South East Asia?

Could be, but part of that's going to be the Gulf of Aztlan Mexico, with the rumrunners of the Carib League.

No, that was the Land War, with SE Asia and China? Well, I guess we need project outlines.

We've got the outline of the first one pretty well set (along with a smashing thread derail, so good job to everyone on that ).

Ultimately you just need the core rulebook and street magic. Then you need to do something with the matrix (I think unwired is crap, and the fact that a matrix rules clarification thread is never off the front page tells me that it is. How long has that book been out? Sheesh), and you have all the game you need.

More crunch at that point is less, because of the insane desire to add more power creep.

And the guy who did the layout doesn't work for CGL any more.

Which kinda shows.

Are there rules for bodies of water, and how rough the water can get, and what kinds of watercraft can handle what kind of rough water?

Somalian pirate boats seem to be of types that can't survive a bit of rough water, so a single spirit with Weather Control could conceivably wreck their plans.

This thread is locked until someone can provide me with a reason for unlocking it.