Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Where are the long melee weapons?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Pages: 1, 2
Dakka Dakka
According to p. 158 of SR4A weapons can have Reach up to 4. Where are those weapons? Even the largest ones are only Reach 2 and in Troll hands Reach 3.

Typo? or am I missing somehting.
Whipstitch
The Elongated Limbs SURGE quality stacks with standard metatype reach bonuses. A SURGE'd troll with a simple telescoping staff can toss around a surprising amount of dice on a charge.
Maelstrome
well, how many weapons do you think would be wieldly at 9 feet and counting for the typical runner imagine that elongate troll with a claymore in a hall way. reach 4 is about 12 feet right? if you need 12 feet in a fight i think its about time to use a gun. now i used to have rules for over sized weabo weapons. but i cant find or recall them. if you are just wanting the reach bonus you can go the way of elongated limbs like the other said.
Medicineman
....oO(Well there is the famous 11' Pole (weather from D&D or from Wing Chun) and maybe a chain could be that long....)

with a Poledance
Medicineman
Maelstrome
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jan 17 2011, 03:38 PM) *
....oO(Well there is the famous 11' Pole (weather from D&D or from Wing Chun) and maybe a chain could be that long....)

with a Poledance
Medicineman


ive seen them at wle.com my whole take on it isnt that they dont or cant exist. its that they just dont work well in enclosed spaces. its all situational like having a gogang with a twelve foot spear would probably work but the huge weapons just arent suitable for most indoor environments which in my experience is where most close combat takes place. now a really long flexible weapon like the chain medicine man talks like a chain with a weight on the end would probably work.

im somewhat remembering the rules i had. they were telescopic weapons that had extra reach for double the cost. so +1 reach cost 2x and +2 reach cost 4x. and that they broke beyond repair on a critical glitch.
CanRay
A Troll swinging another Troll holding a Spear. nyahnyah.gif
Sengir
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jan 17 2011, 07:38 PM) *
....oO(Well there is the famous 11' Pole (weather from D&D or from Wing Chun) and maybe a chain could be that long....)

with a Poledance
Medicineman

And now with stats, straight from the Berlin SB: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5339/bild0051a.jpg biggrin.gif
Doc Byte
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jan 17 2011, 06:06 PM) *
According to p. 158 of SR4A weapons can have Reach up to 4. Where are those weapons? Even the largest ones are only Reach 2 and in Troll hands Reach 3.

Typo? or am I missing somehting.


Lancebiker

Go, Timber Wolves, Go! cool.gif


€dit: http://sr.clausvb.de/Troll.jpg
Lansdren
In the real world I can just about used a seven foot heavy spear with reasonable ability. I can see a troll with a twelve foot spear easily. Not very useful in a world mostly made for humans but possible none the less.
Manunancy
Most of those overlong weapons were designed for formation fighting (greek phalanx, spanish tercios, pikemn squares, that sort of things). Which makes them poorly suited for the sort of quick-moving skirmishes that are a shadowrunner's usual lot.

Once you're inside a pike's reach with a normal weapon, it turns into an oversized and really clumsy staff and the pikeman is toast.
Doc Byte
QUOTE (Manunancy @ Jan 18 2011, 12:59 PM) *
Once you're inside a pike's reach with a normal weapon, it turns into an oversized and really clumsy staff and the pikeman is toast.


Get a double-bladed polearm of reasonable length, it's Shadowrun after all not reenactment. Take full advantage of having a weapon with two edges.
Lansdren
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jan 18 2011, 01:38 PM) *
Get a double-bladed polearm of reasonable length, it's Shadowrun after all not reenactment. Take full advantage of having a weapon with two edges.



I hate double ended glaives my mate has a custom made one from one of our good armourers. Looks nice but I cant stand it as a weapon it just feels wrong.

Give me my large axe anytime or my very large one if we are doing polearms
Blade
A SURGEd troll (or centaur) with elongated limbs kicking someone with an art martial goes up to 3 without any weapon. Do telescopic cyberlegs add anything to the Reach?
Mäx
QUOTE (Manunancy @ Jan 18 2011, 01:59 PM) *
Once you're inside a pike's reach with a normal weapon, it turns into an oversized and really clumsy staff and the pikeman is toast.

Yeah thats the biggest problem with adding reach 4 weapons in to game, as such a weapon would prettty much always give the user the reach advance, even though as you say having a weapon that big would be a disadvantage at least as often as it's an advantage.
KarmaInferno
Pretty much the only way I can see a Reach 4 weapon not being very awkward would be if it can instantly extend and retract at the user's whim.




-k
Yerameyahu
Yup. Totally ridiculous.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Medicineman @ Jan 17 2011, 07:38 PM) *
....oO(Well there is the famous 11' Pole (weather from D&D or from Wing Chun) and maybe a chain could be that long....)

with a Poledance
Medicineman

D&D have had 10' pole in its mundane gear list for ages. The 11' may be from hackmaster or munchkins as a spoof on the "higher number is better" mentality.
Mäx
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jan 18 2011, 09:48 PM) *
The 11' may be from hackmaster or munchkins as a spoof on the "higher number is better" mentality.

No the 11' pole is for those adventures where the designer put the button little more then 10' away so that you cant just use a 10' pole to push it wink.gif
Sixgun_Sage
If I recall correctly the Macedonian spearmen had spears 16 feet in length, of course this was only effective as part of a phalanx but...
Stahlseele
QUOTE (Sengir @ Jan 17 2011, 08:09 PM) *
And now with stats, straight from the Berlin SB: http://img203.imageshack.us/img203/5339/bild0051a.jpg biggrin.gif

BWAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAHAAAAAAAA
Didn't even see that when i first read through my limited edition ^^
crash2029
When I was a kid my family was in the SCA. As a result I did alot of sword fighting. I also used other weapons when available. I remember one time when I got my hands on a pollax. That was fun. It can be intimidating to see somebody charging at you screaming and leaping into the air to deliver a gravity-enhanced blow. Good times. Although I admit that was outside. My point is that a reach 3 weapon can be useful depending on how you use it.
Stahlseele
Now remember: Smart materials and Telescopics are in Shadowrun.
Technically, you CAN build Son Goku's Staff from Dragonball . .
Whipstitch
QUOTE (Sixgun_Sage @ Jan 18 2011, 04:17 PM) *
If I recall correctly the Macedonian spearmen had spears 16 feet in length, of course this was only effective as part of a phalanx but...


Yeah, polearm clashes are quite a different beast. Greek tactics were clever and interesting in large part because they built the bulk of their military strategy around a formation tactic that was dominant in a specific situation and very inflexible in others.
Bodak
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jan 19 2011, 05:48 AM) *
D&D have had 10' pole in its mundane gear list for ages. The 11' may be from hackmaster or munchkins as a spoof on the "higher number is better" mentality.
It seems more likely to me that it is a Spinal Tap reference.

And I expect if you can have SmartLink technology that lets you control your firearm at the speed of thought, similar DNI/PAN linkage could extend and retract a telescoping polearm to a length appropriate to the environs. Of course, when not fully extended, the player would not get to add the full reach modifier (they tend to conveniently forget such finer details in all the excitement)!
Yerameyahu
You'd have to invent it, of course. The telescoping staff in Arsenal is mechanical, not Smart, electronic, or anything. Certainly doable, but probably not worth it to munchkin out 1 or 2 extra Reach. smile.gif
hobgoblin
there is the flex metal weapon in war! that provides anything from a telescoping staff to a longsword.
pbangarth
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Jan 18 2011, 05:59 PM) *
...but probably not worth it to munchkin out ...

You're kidding, right? In SR? Or for that matter just about any RPG? wobble.gif
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (hobgoblin @ Jan 19 2011, 11:47 AM) *
there is the flex metal weapon in war! that provides anything from a telescoping staff to a longsword.

And mysteriously REQUIRES wireless connectivity, when as a melee weapon Skinlink would make far more sense.



-k
Mardrax
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 19 2011, 06:47 PM) *
And mysteriously REQUIRES wireless connectivity, when as a melee weapon Skinlink would make far more sense.



-k


Well technically, skinlink IS a form of wireless connection wink.gif
Medicineman
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 19 2011, 01:47 PM) *
And mysteriously REQUIRES wireless connectivity, when as a melee weapon Skinlink would make far more sense.



-k

No
It only works better with Wireless (or Skinlink)
it says it takes a simple Action to switch Form or a free via Wireless (just like Clip Ejection with Smartlink)

He who dances with a free Acxtion
Medicineman
Mäx
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Jan 19 2011, 07:47 PM) *
And mysteriously REQUIRES wireless connectivity, when as a melee weapon Skinlink would make far more sense.

Unless your trying to claim skinlink to be a form of wired communication, i really fail to see what your trying to say cool.gif
Sixgun_Sage
QUOTE (Whipstitch @ Jan 18 2011, 04:46 PM) *
Yeah, polearm clashes are quite a different beast. Greek tactics were clever and interesting in large part because they built the bulk of their military strategy around a formation tactic that was dominant in a specific situation and very inflexible in others.



Agreed, I was only pointing out that a weapon even larger than the 12 foot spear reffered to earlier in the thread had been used to great effect at one point in time.
Stahlseele
It is still going to be used in great effect, if there's enough space and reason fot it.
rofltehcat
What I'm wondering... what cavalry are you planning to use this against?
Because most of those extremely long weapons were used either in formation or against cavalry. Preferably in formation against cavalry. I guess using this in SR would have to give you a penalty if the enemy got too close and then you'd need a distance class system like in the Dark Eye rpg system where it leads to fighters with long distance classes always trying to increase the range and only attacking if the gap closing attack of the short range attacker fails.

Although I like the thought of a cybered troll impaling an oncoming car on a lamp post cyber.gif
Stahlseele
Police still does Crowd Control on horseback today.
In 2072, a Horse is probably better known under the Discworld Shadow-Slang though.
but a strong Troll could slice Motorcycle cops on their motorcycles in half. and the cycle.
pbangarth
QUOTE (rofltehcat @ Jan 19 2011, 03:10 PM) *
What I'm wondering... what cavalry are you planning to use this against?
A charging family of juggernauts?
CanRay
Nova Possum?
Stahlseele
Ancients?
KarmaInferno
QUOTE (Mäx @ Jan 19 2011, 02:36 PM) *
Unless your trying to claim skinlink to be a form of wired communication, i really fail to see what your trying to say cool.gif

I'll clarify. I should probably have said "remote wireless".

By default, when the rules use the term "wireless" they generally mean "radio communication".

If Skinlink is meant, the rules usually say so.

As the Victorinox SmartStaff from War does NOT say so, it's reasonable to assume the author meant the radio-based variety.

Which is fine, up until some hacker remotely hijacks your SmartStaff and stabs you in the face with it by triggering the "sword" mode when it's being held in an inconvenient position.

It really should be explicitly Skinlink. It has to be held to be used after all.



-k
Mäx
Well not everyone has skinlink, while they do have a wireless link providing commlink, so it being wireless makes lots of sense to me.
And igf you have skinlink it's very cheap to add that to the staff as well.
Doc Byte
QUOTE (Mäx @ Jan 20 2011, 10:41 AM) *
Well not everyone has skinlink, while they do have a wireless link providing commlink, so it being wireless makes lots of sense to me.
And igf you have skinlink it's very cheap to add that to the staff as well.


"Skinlink" refers to the bio-electrical field of your body. If you have no skinlink, your probably dead.
Mäx
QUOTE (Doc Byte @ Jan 20 2011, 03:27 PM) *
"Skinlink" refers to the bio-electrical field of your body. If you have no skinlink, your probably dead.

To use it you, something connected to you commlink or DNI must be skinlinked, so no not everyone can use skinlink.
Dakka Dakka
yes but according to the BBB there is an upgrade for 50¥ that makes a device skinlink capable.
Mäx
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jan 20 2011, 04:23 PM) *
yes but according to the BBB there is an upgrade for 50¥ that makes a device skinlink capable.

Did you completdy miss the part where i said that "its cheap to add skinlink to the staff, if you can make use of it"

And what exactly did you think i was referring to when i said you must have skinlinked comlink or DNI device, if not to that exact upgrade that adds a skinlink to a device(in other word skinlinks the device)
Dakka Dakka
What i wanted to say is that, while it is true that not everyone can use skinlink, it is very easy and inexpensive to add that capability to (nearly) any device.
Yerameyahu
Why wouldn't your trodes, datajack, or commlink be skinlinked, though? Maybe if you're a dracoform?
Dakka Dakka
I think Mäx restricted the not everyone to all those people how don't have skin linked devices.

I'm not sure if there are DNIs for Dracoforms at all. If there are I do not know how conductive dragon skin is.
Yerameyahu
Right, and I restricted mine to 'no one, because everyone can have skinlink for 50¥'. smile.gif The dracoform is more a joke from another current thread, demonstrating how exotic you'd have to be to *not* have skinlink.
Mäx
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Jan 20 2011, 05:19 PM) *
I think Mäx restricted the not everyone to all those people how don't have skin linked devices.

Yeah, it's not that it isn't cheap to skinlink all of your relevant gear, but the fact that you do have to do so because nothing comes standard with skinlink included.
So to me it makes perfect sense for the smart staff to have a wireless link in it(like everythink else) that you can use to control it and not come with skinlink as standard(because nothing else does either)
Yerameyahu
Ah, 'comes standard'. I dig it.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012