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Stingray
I do have Question.
Living place have basic rent of 5000 yen/mnt
Primary payer is Ogre. (w/ogre Stomach) (-20 % of living costs)
Living cost after calgulation is 4000 y/mnt

does roommate pay his 10 % of rent as ? :
a) 10 % from basic cost = 500 yen/mnt
b) 10 % from final cost = 400 yen/mnt

what happen if Ogre's roommate have also Ogre Stomach- Quality? ork.gif
Mardrax
If you try to feed your roommate whatever it is you're having, he should apply for the reduced cost as well. I just don't think you'll have a roommate for long. Unless he has the quality as well. Any other interpretation will likely result in having the SR4A book applied to your head (with a base DV of str/2+1)
InfinityzeN
Your doing it wrong. The room mate adds 500 yen/mnt to the total, bringing it to 5,000 yen/mnt. You are responsible for half of that, modified by your qualities, which comes out to 2,200 yen/mnt. Your room mate will pay 2,750 yen/mnt unless he has qualities that reduce his cost.
Mardrax
QUOTE (Runner)
When two or more people share a home, they can share the lifestyle costs, although having extra people increases the total lifestyle costs. Each additional person beyond the first adds 10% to the nuyen cost of the lifestyle. Its up to the roommates to decide how to divide the costs amongst themselves.

Emphasis mine.

How are you calculating that, Infinity?

My interpretation is:
RAW doesn't mention wether to use base or modified lifestyle costs for this, but base seems the logical thing, resulting in:
The final cost should be 5000+500-1000=4500, divided any way you choose. Wether this results in the ogre taking full advantage of his stomach, the costs being split into 2750 each, minus 1000 for the ogre, or them sharing in the goodness and paying 2250 each really is irrelevant, and should be discussed among the players in question.
If the roommate has an Ogre Stomach or similar benefit as well, I really don't know how to call it. I'd probably roll with making him add 400 to the total cost. This doesn't make sense, considering how much of the extra 500 should be taken up by food, but neither does the full 20% cut an ogre gets. nyahnyah.gif
Aerospider
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 2 2011, 01:09 PM) *
Emphasis mine.

How are you calculating that, Infinity?

My interpretation is:
RAW doesn't mention wether to use base or modified lifestyle costs for this, but base seems the logical thing, resulting in:
The final cost should be 5000+500-1000=4500, divided any way you choose. Wether this results in the ogre taking full advantage of his stomach, the costs being split into 2750 each, minus 1000 for the ogre, or them sharing in the goodness and paying 2250 each really is irrelevant, and should be discussed among the players in question.
If the roommate has an Ogre Stomach or similar benefit as well, I really don't know how to call it. I'd probably roll with making him add 400 to the total cost. This doesn't make sense, considering how much of the extra 500 should be taken up by food, but neither does the full 20% cut an ogre gets. nyahnyah.gif

What you've calculated for the single-ogre-stomach scenario is exactly how it should be handled for the double-ogre-stomach scenario, since they'll have the same nutritional requirements and benefits as each other. Giving a full discount when only one of them has the augmentation has to be wrong. It's when there's only one ogre stomach that the issue gets contentious.

If you rule, as in your first post, that the two room mates will eat the same despite that only one has the ogre stomach advantage then cost it as with two ogre stomachs (discount of 1,000) and see how long it takes for the room-mate to die from malnutrition (or eat the primary character).

If you rule that one character will take advantage of having an ogre stomach whilst the other one can't/won't, then it depends on how you see it. If you consider that the savings (technically 90%) from two people co-habiting should be considered still applicable to their dietary arrangements then you only grant half the discount for the ogre stomach but of the entire amount, making it 10% of 5,500 how they split the 4,950 rent is then up to the characters. Alternatively, one might argue that if the two are eating so differently then there should be no savings for efficiency where food is concerned this means then that the 20% discount should actually apply to the room-mate charge and that alone (since the other guy needs to spend as much on nourishment as he would if living alone) and 20% of 10% of 5,000 is 100, so total lifestyle cost comes to 5,500 - 100 = 5,400.

Not that this level of analysis is especially fun at the gaming table, but it is interesting to work through the logic in one's lunch hour!
Yerameyahu
If you have to ask, 'is this cheating?', then you already know the answer. smile.gif
CanRay
It's not just food you have to pay for, but all the other essentials in life. I figure it'd balance out depending on how good of a roommate you have. Some would be better, some would be far, far worse.

One of my PCs who used the Advanced Lifestyle Rules had a roommate that was known only as "Rasta Troll". He never spoke, and just sat on the couch smoking herb and getting closer to Jah.
Mardrax
I've always found the 20% lifestyle cut a bit funky to begin with. Looking at myself, on a student income, am spending somehwere ion the range of 15% to 20% of my income on food. I can only imagine this ratio falling further when lifestyle gets to a point where you're paying for more than just an adequately furnished one bedroom apartment. Trying to justfy the 20% cut in my head sounds like saying "ogres eat for free" which just can't be right, especially for higher lifestyles. Just try and picture the rare ogre well-to-do, foraging for leaves, nuts and their squirrel owners in the corp park nyahnyah.gif

That said, I can totally see your reasoning, but having the roommate actually negate the ogre's benefit in the shared total sounds harsh, especially since I see the extra 10% as mostly just food and electric bills, which 500 nuyen.gif should cover with some room to spare for entertainment, even if not eating communally.
I like your first interpretation though.
CanRay
Lifestyle prices changed in the 6th World compared to today. Food is both more expensive and cheaper at the same time. I put it down to being able to buy the cheapest, nastiest Nutrasoy Knock-Off and Past-Due Vat-Grown Luncheon Meat at places that make Stuffer Shack look good.

I'm betting that more is paid in Rent (Especially in Seattle where the Population Density is nearing that of New York City!), utilities (Remember, resources are draining away!), and Matrix service (Which includes 'Trid and Simsense), and the all important booze bill.
Aerospider
QUOTE (CanRay @ Feb 2 2011, 04:18 PM) *
Lifestyle prices changed in the 6th World compared to today. Food is both more expensive and cheaper at the same time. I put it down to being able to buy the cheapest, nastiest Nutrasoy Knock-Off and Past-Due Vat-Grown Luncheon Meat at places that make Stuffer Shack look good.

I'm betting that more is paid in Rent (Especially in Seattle where the Population Density is nearing that of New York City!), utilities (Remember, resources are draining away!), and Matrix service (Which includes 'Trid and Simsense), and the all important booze bill.

Downtown might have a high population density, but isn't Seattle as a whole many times bigger than today's NYC and with a smaller population?
ProfGast
I agree, the whole "less picky about food" translating to "cut in lifestyle cost" is a little weird
Ogre Stomach (20%)
Digestive Expansion (20%? Afb)
Vegsin Geneware (10%)
All imply that you can eat something and get more out of it. To me it doesn't necessarily mean they can eat leaves and grasses to supplement, but rather they simpy gain more out of what they do eat, and thus need to eat less.

HOWEVER, this doesn't necessarily seem to follow, as the "Sustenance" Adept power states you only need eat 1 meal per day, but doesn't add any benefits whatsoever to lifestyle. (Granted that may be a balance thing sine if it DID affect lifestyle, it would no longer cost .25 pp) And besides its real charm is the fact you only need to clock 3 hours of sleep, like a sleep regulator.
Game2BHappy
Personally, as GM I would give the player this answer:
"Live by yourself or with a roommate that has the same bonus, take out the 20%"
"Pick up a roommate who doesn't have the same bonus, don't take out the 20%"
Christian Lafay
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 2 2011, 02:35 PM) *
If you have to ask, 'is this cheating?', then you already know the answer. smile.gif

It's not cheating if the rules allow it. Just like my extreme-dream house that I pay a fraction of it's cost for. A runner living in a mansion that would make Big-D drool a little, haha.
Yerameyahu
I don't agree, but I'm not too concerned about it. smile.gif
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 2 2011, 11:04 AM) *
I've always found the 20% lifestyle cut a bit funky to begin with. Looking at myself, on a student income, am spending somehwere ion the range of 15% to 20% of my income on food. I can only imagine this ratio falling further when lifestyle gets to a point where you're paying for more than just an adequately furnished one bedroom apartment. Trying to justfy the 20% cut in my head sounds like saying "ogres eat for free" which just can't be right, especially for higher lifestyles. Just try and picture the rare ogre well-to-do, foraging for leaves, nuts and their squirrel owners in the corp park nyahnyah.gif


Food is actually one of the largest household expenses we have, behind our mortgage payment. Of course, we eat pretty well (we cook almost every night, never buying packaged meals, and we mostly eat our leftovers), which may be part of it, but groceries account for approximately 1/4 of our monthly expenses.

I think you'll find, as your income rises, hot pockets and ramen become less appealing as you can afford fresh vegetables, fish, and steaks. biggrin.gif
Mardrax
Fresh veggies and fish are actually pretty cheap if you know where to get them, around here anyway. I cook pretty much every night (well alright, once every two nights, cooking for two nights), using fresh ingredients mostly, because to buy packaged meals would be almost twice as expensive nyahnyah.gif
No steak, of course, but I tend to think steak kinda meh anyway nyahnyah.gif
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Game2BHappy @ Feb 2 2011, 06:34 PM) *
Personally, as GM I would give the player this answer:
"Live by yourself or with a roommate that has the same bonus, take out the 20%"
"Pick up a roommate who doesn't have the same bonus, don't take out the 20%"


Or, to quickly and easily solve things - add in the bonuses after the roommate split and not before, to properly reflect the dreck Ogre Stomach is buying.
CanRay
All expenses depend on where you live. Although sometimes it makes no sense at all.

For example, I live in the middle of farming country, and food prices are more expensive here than back home where I lived in the middle of a desolate wasteland of acidic soil, inside a mountain. Property prices are about the same, but for different reasons.

The rest... Depends. Some is cheaper, some is more expensive, some is the same. But there's a lot more options here, that's for sure!
Fortinbras
I'd say it's an even 50/50 split because while the ogre pays less for food, he's going to have to do more cleaning and replacing of broken furniture from all those wild ogre parties.
Ain't no party like an orge party 'cause an orge party don't stop!
CanRay
Ogre Party Orgy, now in full Simsense, starring Bubba The Love Troll and the Naughty Night Elf Nurses!
Yerameyahu
Is that a gross pun or a typo?
CanRay
Cleverly crafted disturbing image.
Mardrax
Naughty Night Elf Nurses right? 20% extra Lifestyle cost to have two roommates right?
Stingray
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 3 2011, 10:38 PM) *
Naughty Night Elf Nurses right? 20% extra Lifestyle cost to have two roommates right?

..and 2x perfect roommate... biggrin.gif
Tyro
QUOTE (Stingray @ Feb 3 2011, 11:36 PM) *
..and 2x perfect roommate... biggrin.gif

Don't forget to give them severe addiction: sex!

[Edit:] And compulsion: Flirting!
CanRay
And Day Job: Porn Studio.
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