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nielsk
Narcoject has a DV of 10S. Afaik 10S is actually the base-DV. So I fill a capsule bullet with Narcojet and shoot it: do the net hits get added to the 10S?
If so, what can I do to have only dealt 10S to the target?

A bit in the same direction: Stick'n'Shock has 6S[e] as DV. Do the 6S increase by net hits?

In both cases: Does the type of weapon matter at all (except when handling range and AP)? Does a heavy pistol loaded with Stick'n'Shock do the same damage as a hold-out (same for venoms in capsule rounds)?
ProfGast
Narcojet doesn't have a DV of 10. it has a Toxin POWER of 10. There's a difference. If the Narcojet hits the target must make a toxin resistance roll vs Power of 10.

Stick and shock hits do add to stun damage though. Stick and shock also is the same damage across all weapon types using it

Toxin power will always remain the same, but Capsule rounds affect base gun damage.

EDIT: UNLESS the GM uses concentration rules for toxins which may change the Power of the toxin
nielsk
Ok. Then one example to make it clearer and one more question smile.gif
I use an Ares Pred (5P, AP -1) with Capsule rounds and Narcojet. The Ares Pred has now a DV of 5S and an AP of +1. I shoot and hit the target with 2 net hits, the target has no armor. Thus the target resists first 7S and then the 10S from the Narcoject, correct?

If the damage of the weapon gets reduced to 0, the venom doesn't work at all because it splashed onto the armor or whatever but couldn't penetrate the vector, correct?
Yerameyahu
It wouldn't work either way. Narcoject is Injection, and Capsule rounds are Contact. You need to put the Narcoject in DMSO to make it a contact liquid. Armor doesn't block it either way unless it has chem-sealing/-reducing mods.
nielsk
Let's say he puts it in DMSO and that in a Capsule round -- one resistance-test to resist the damage from the bullet, one for the toxin?
Yerameyahu
Honestly, it depends. In my group, we only do the toxin damage. Same thing for a stun baton/etc.: it's shock damage, no Strength/2 + X melee damage. We also don't let you shoot a grenade at someone (ballistic damage) and *then* detonate it (blast damage). It's just easier if you play SR without crazy multi-stacking damages.

That said, you *can* do that. The rules don't clearly support either way (in every instance). For example, the capsule rounds probably do deal ballistic stun damage per RAW, but a launched grenade has no listed ballistic damage, and melee/ranged tasers don't either. Poisoned knives *do* appear to deal cutting damage and then toxin effects (and that halfway makes sense). It's a messy grey area. smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
For us, at our table, the Capsule round has to inflict at least a point of damage for the DMSO/Narcojet to actually take hold... so yes, the target must resist the Damage from the Capsuule round first. If at least one point of damage is inflicted, the DMSO delivers the Toxin to the subject and they are now subject to its effects. Has worked very well for us in the past... wobble.gif
Yerameyahu
Whereas, see, ours only has to not miss, just as tasers and other 'touch' attacks work. This is more traditional, especially given that you can't 'resist' being splashed, *and* you get a Toxin Resistance test anyway.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 14 2011, 04:26 PM) *
Whereas, see, ours only has to not miss, just as tasers and other 'touch' attacks work. This is more traditional, especially given that you can't 'resist' being splashed, *and* you get a Toxin Resistance test anyway.


Sure... but it has worked out well for us, since Capsule Rounds DO cause damage... and it makes the Toxin/DMSO mix not quite as deadly as it otherwise might be...
Game2BHappy
Thankfully the delay of toxins has kept them from showing up in our games very often (even "Immediate" doesn't affect until the end of the round).

But you got me thinking - would treating Tasers & Stick-n-Shock as a toxin (base damage is not increased by net hits) prevent their abuse? Would it give them a semblance of balance or limit them too much?
Eratosthenes
QUOTE (Game2BHappy @ Feb 15 2011, 01:38 PM) *
Thankfully the delay of toxins has kept them from showing up in our games very often (even "Immediate" doesn't affect until the end of the round).

But you got me thinking - would treating Tasers & Stick-n-Shock as a toxin (base damage is not increased by net hits) prevent their abuse? Would it give them a semblance of balance or limit them too much?


I don't see a problem with Tasers, personally. Stick'n'shock, in my games, I rule that net hits don't increase DV.

What about non-toxin drugs, though (the infamous Slab, or Kamikaze) in capsule rounds? Or tranq patches?
Yerameyahu
'If it sounds too good to be true, it's not', so Slab doesn't do 'that'. smile.gif
Game2BHappy
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 15 2011, 08:27 PM) *
'If it sounds too good to be true, it's not', so Slab doesn't do 'that'. smile.gif

Well stated.

Fortunately, my players don't peruse the boards much (as it seems the majority of SR players don't) and haven't thought of that little abuse yet. As preparation for that day, I'll just give it an onset time of 15-30 minutes (since it doesn't list one), or provide that you can fight its effects for a while much like the movie "Crank" to prevent its onset.

... in fact, I think I just came up with my next run idea!
Yerameyahu
I definitely would prefer more clarity in the toxin/drug/chemical rules. Alas.
Modular Man
Oh, there are rules:
P. 75, Arsenal, topic "But I wanna get high!" suggests some rules for exactly that situation smile.gif
So, Slab might work well...
Yerameyahu
That's sort of a small step in the right direction, but it's not really what I mean.
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