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Keita Haruka
According to the Runner's Companion, any animal can have a shapeshifter variant, I therefore assume that paranormals can also have such a variant. In character creation, a set of minimum and maximum values are given, same as any other character. Problem is...in Running Wild, the stats given for paranormals simply do not fit into that framework. It also seems that paranormals come "standard" with magic, as well as a number of spells and abilities.

My question is this: if I want to use a paranormal as basis for a shapeshifter, would it be acceptable to increase their attributes beyond the "standard" as indicated in their "natural stats", and should I then "buy" the abilities and spells that they come standard with, or must I assume that it's inherant in the species and therefore it's not necessary to purchase them?

No, I'm not an experienced player. In fact, I don't play at all. I just enjoy the world and the process of creating the characters. Most of the time, I juse them in fanfiction. But...I do like to follow the rules, as it were. Just in case I do decide to one day play the characters I create.
Nifft
I'd try to build the para-critter as a regular shapeshifter with the Mystic Adept quality, using Adept powers where appropriate and spells where appropriate.

For example, if your para-critter could breathe fire, then you take the Flamethrower spell, and you say that it comes out of your mouth.

Cheers, -- N
Yerameyahu
My basic assumption would be that, no, you cannot (under the normal rules) have a paranormal-critter/shifter. I don't think it's part of the fluff, and I know it's not part of the rules. That doesn't mean you can't do it for your game, of course. smile.gif
Mardrax
QUOTE (Keita Haruka @ Feb 19 2011, 09:26 PM) *
My question is this: if I want to use a paranormal as basis for a shapeshifter, would it be acceptable to increase their attributes beyond the "standard" as indicated in their "natural stats", and should I then "buy" the abilities and spells that they come standard with, or must I assume that it's inherant in the species and therefore it's not necessary to purchase them?

There aren't any rules on this.

I'd rule yes, but BP value for the race should be high, very high indeed.
Also note the bit on "Not always quite human", pg 87 of RC.
Fatum
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 20 2011, 09:42 AM) *
My basic assumption would be that, no, you cannot (under the normal rules) have a paranormal-critter/shifter. I don't think it's part of the fluff, and I know it's not part of the rules. That doesn't mean you can't do it for your game, of course. smile.gif
It is very much part of the rules, you can only be a shifter with certain animal forms by RC rules.

I'd say paranormals can't be shapeshifters at all, same as how they can't be technocritters. I think of it as conflicting qualities: you're either an Adept or a Magician, or a Technomancer; same way you're either a paranimal, shapeshifter or a e-critter.
That's how I'd rule the NPCs, at least. If a player wanted to be a shifter paranimal, I'd let him, most likely. For a price, hehehehe...
Yerameyahu
That's what I said Fatum: being a paracritter-shifter *isn't* part of the rules.
Keita Haruka
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Feb 20 2011, 05:36 PM) *
There aren't any rules on this.

I'd rule yes, but BP value for the race should be high, very high indeed.
Also note the bit on "Not always quite human", pg 87 of RC.

Oh, I know. That's the part I wanted to play around with when I conceived of him. I imagined that the paranormal version of any given critter would behave a little differently from the mundane version because of the additional abilities their magic would give them. Now give them human-like intelligence too...and imagine what such a creature would do...

What do you think would be a fair BP value for the race, given that they do come "standard" with some serious magical abilities? In fact...when I look at the attribute table for the paracritter in Running Wild, there's very little I'd really want to give him, except maybe an extra point of logic and a few skills. That would be all he'd really need.
Yerameyahu
It's almost impossible to set a BP cost for what's normally a fully-playable NPC. Unless you're trying to make a habit of this or provide rules for the general community, the simplest solution for a unique character is just negotiate with the GM and avoid chargen more or less entirely. IMO. smile.gif

You could compare the NPC Infected stats against the Infected PC stats (just as an example), and work out an idea of how to convert critters to PCs in a general sense. I certainly agree that it'll be extremely expensive in BP, and the resulting entity might well be the only one on the planetů an issue all in itself.
Keita Haruka
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 20 2011, 08:42 AM) *
My basic assumption would be that, no, you cannot (under the normal rules) have a paranormal-critter/shifter. I don't think it's part of the fluff, and I know it's not part of the rules. That doesn't mean you can't do it for your game, of course. smile.gif

smile.gif Not a game. Fanfiction. wink.gif
Keita Haruka
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 20 2011, 10:41 PM) *
It's almost impossible to set a BP cost for what's normally a fully-playable NPC. Unless you're trying to make a habit of this or provide rules for the general community, the simplest solution for a unique character is just negotiate with the GM and avoid chargen more or less entirely. IMO. smile.gif

You could compare the NPC Infected stats against the Infected PC stats (just as an example), and work out an idea of how to convert critters to PCs in a general sense. I certainly agree that it'll be extremely expensive in BP, and the resulting entity might well be the only one on the planetů an issue all in itself.

Hehe. That's the thing. I don't have a GM because I'm not a player. I'm a writer. I've contributed story ideas to GM's, but never actually played myself. I have a few friends who play, and I've done a collaborative Shadowrun story with one of them (Canray). These character concepts of mine are not intended to be played. I'm just stretching the rukles because that's where my imagination takes me. nyahnyah.gif

I'll certainly compare the stats you indicated and see where that takes me. wink.gif
Squinky
I have a memory of a passage in a source book stating that they can't be para-critters.....but for the life of me I cannot find it. Something about the magical expressions required for both being exclusive.
Yerameyahu
If it's for fiction and not a game, why are you asking about BP cost? smile.gif There's a long tradition in fiction of ignoring both the fluff and crunch of the established canon, so go nuts.
Rasumichin
QUOTE (Squinky @ Feb 21 2011, 03:34 AM) *
I have a memory of a passage in a source book stating that they can't be para-critters.....but for the life of me I cannot find it. Something about the magical expressions required for both being exclusive.


I don't know any passage along those lines either, but it would make sense.
After all, we don't have ork-elves or barghest-hellhounds, either.

Of course, it's conceivable that an individual has some metagenic traits of several possible expressions of it's species.
Which results in SURGE, which is also found among animals other than humans.
The most fluff-compatible way would probably be to SURGE the shifter and select metagenic qualities that match the paracritter's abilities.
Fatum
QUOTE (Rasumichin @ Feb 21 2011, 08:34 AM) *
I don't know any passage along those lines either, but it would make sense.
After all, we don't have ork-elves or barghest-hellhounds, either.

We can have troll elves and humans, though :3
Keita Haruka
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 21 2011, 06:20 AM) *
If it's for fiction and not a game, why are you asking about BP cost? smile.gif There's a long tradition in fiction of ignoring both the fluff and crunch of the established canon, so go nuts.

Because I want to be different and be the first fanfic writer to be consistent with canon and fluff. nyahnyah.gif
And...and this is the real reason...it's just plain fun to try and do it. nyahnyah.gif

Incidentally, CanRay asked me that exact same question and told me the exact same thing. He underestimated my level of stubbornness. biggrin.gif
Fatum
Well, if you want your fiction to b perfect from the fluff standpoint, I advise against paracritter shapeshifters, let's postulate it like that.
Yerameyahu
Exactly. Keita Haruka, that's all I meant: by canon, such a thing doesn't and can't exist. If you want to *not* be a normal fic writer and *not* rape the canonů don't. biggrin.gif Hehe.
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