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James McMurray
I'm writing an adventure for my group and I'm seeing conflicting ways on how to handle legwork.
  • A lot of older adventures I've seen online have separate thresholds for Data Search or the appropriate skills.
  • The 2nd season of Mission adventures (the only ones I have access to) use a single Connection + Connection roll to see what a contact knows followed by a Loyalty + Charisma + Etiquette roll to see what they'll give away from free.
  • SR4A says to make the check using the contact's skills followed by an extended Charisma + Connection test if he has to ask around. There's no roll for getting them to give you most information freely.


Can someone give me an example of how the more recent Missions adventures do it? I'd like to make the information obtainable (since otherwise it doesn't need to exist) but would like people to have to use more than just an Agent with Data Search to find out anything about anyone.
Brazilian_Shinobi
The new missions follow the same rules. Now, Data Search can't do everything. If something is not publicly displayed in the Matrix (even if hidden in some obscure blog) you can't find it with Data Search. And Data Search is an extended test, so, obviously, it should take more sucesses than just 5 to find everything about the thing you are legworking. Also, I would suggest using the rules of diminishing dice per new roll on an extended test.
James McMurray
The new Missions use the same rules as what? The old missions? SR4A?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (James McMurray @ Feb 28 2011, 02:21 PM) *
The new Missions use the same rules as what? The old missions? SR4A?


Probably the same as the ones you posted above for Missions (Season 2)...
Belvidere
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Feb 28 2011, 06:11 PM) *
Also, I would suggest using the rules of diminishing dice per new roll on an extended test.


Have I been blind to something I've always thought about implementing or is this a houserule? If so, what is your version of it? grinbig.gif
Mardrax
QUOTE (SR4a pg 64)
The gamemaster can also limit the number of rolls under the assumption that if the character can’t finish it with a certain amount of effort, she simply doesn’t have the skills to complete it. The suggested way to do this is to apply a cumulative –1 dice modifier to each test after the first.

Mr Clock
Data Search should never have been the end-of legwork. Unless there's been a leak in the collective brain pan, the population of 2070 are pretty well aware that anything uploaded to the Matrix will be accessed by seventeen different people by sunrise. Unless there's something particular about a target you want to be Searched for, that kind of looking shouldn't give you everything you need - certainly not for free.

When everyone's on the Matrix, word of mouth is the new secret.

As regards the costing, it's between you and your runners credsticks. How much are you paying them? How much are they regularly spending? How much do they expect to pay for info? If you're drawing blanks, but you have five bits of info, call it 200 nuyen a go and each success on the test is a freebie. If that sounds too cheap, up it to 400 or 500 per bit.
James McMurray
I noticed that the first Missions 3 adventure is also free and checked it out. It's using the same system as Missions 2 did, so that's what I'll be going with. It's quick and dirty, and keeps contact ratings important (especially in a low Charisma group like ours).
CanRay
I've tried, oh how I've tried to get my group to do Legwork... Suggestions, hints, outright hits to the head... No, just barrel through...

I know my Accountant From Hell is going to be BUILT for this kind of thing. A few StarKafs in Seattle and he'll know half the gossip going on in the Corporate Lifestyle!
Mardrax
QUOTE (James McMurray @ Feb 28 2011, 10:07 PM) *
  • SR4A says to make the check using the contact's skills followed by an extended Charisma + Connection test if he has to ask around. There's no roll for getting them to give you most information freely.

Free information I tend to adjucated by loyalty. Information is just another resource to trade for a lot of folks, and has their jobs hinging on it for others. They shouldn't give it out freely in a lot of cases, unless they really like you.
CanRay
Information for owed favors are always nice, sets up new adventures. Also, info for info works out quite well, especially if you've just pulled a 'Run on an area that other 'Runners might be interested in.

I know my group would have had a lot of "Currency" if they had pulled off that job that involved the UCAS Customs Warehouse. ... Too bad that went south right some quick!
thetrav
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 1 2011, 10:14 AM) *
I've tried, oh how I've tried to get my group to do Legwork... Suggestions, hints, outright hits to the head... No, just barrel through...


Extensive research and planning is not everyone's bag, but it's a pretty important part of shadowrun...

What happens when they get missions where they need information to procede? Have they ever had jobs to find things where location is not initially known?
Have they ever had jobs where they need to connect multiple parties to achieve the desired result?

Have they run into situations where they were stonewalled for lack of basic research?

I'm sure a lot of basic wet work and guard duty missions can be brute forced, but if that's all the work they're getting then they're missing out
phlapjack77
I know you asked for Missions stuff, but Runners Companion has half a page or so on Legwork. And a table with thresholds for found information. Looks like it's the same mechanic that Missions has.

RC, p130-131
An easy way to determine how much information a relevant contact has about a situation is for the GM to make a Connection + Connection Test for the contact. The results of this test can determine how many ranks of information the contact knows about the question. Refer to the Relevant Information Table. A PC then makes a Charisma + Etiquette + Loyalty Test. The contact will reveal, for free, a number of levels of information equal to the hits obtained on the test. If the contact knows more, additional information will require a payment to the contact or a favor.
CanRay
QUOTE (thetrav @ Mar 1 2011, 01:11 AM) *
Extensive research and planning is not everyone's bag, but it's a pretty important part of shadowrun...

What happens when they get missions where they need information to procede? Have they ever had jobs to find things where location is not initially known?
Have they ever had jobs where they need to connect multiple parties to achieve the desired result?

Have they run into situations where they were stonewalled for lack of basic research?

There were a few, they all went badly. Very badly.
sunnyside
QUOTE (CanRay @ Feb 28 2011, 06:14 PM) *
I've tried, oh how I've tried to get my group to do Legwork... Suggestions, hints, outright hits to the head... No, just barrel through...


I was going to say be willing to have a mission or two go bad where they wind up burning some edge.

But it sounds like you may have already tried that. I suspect you've also tried dropping hints after runs about how they could have gotten some nice shiney thing or extra money if they'd had some extra information, and trying to make the legwork interesting.

So maybe you just have stooopid players. This happens. I suppse you might have to chose between just having fun where their fixer understands them for what they are and only slides approrpriate jobs their way, or getting a new player or two that want to play the sort of game you want to run.



CanRay
I think the best option I have is to find a GM and actually play.

I know The Accountant From Hell is going to be good at the information gathering. Blend into a crowd, ask a few questions, buy a few drinks, fade away, and be less than a memory...
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