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JM Hardy
I know there's been some discussion of this already, but I thought I'd mention that the latest PDF-only Shadowrun product, Parazoology, is out now, with 30 critter write-ups--21 classics, 9 new ones! It's available on the Battleshop and at Drivethrurpg. Here's the summary if you're looking for more info:

Beware the Beasts

The Awakening had a dramatic effect on the world, and those effects have not stopped shaking things up. Across the Sixth World, magic and other environmental factors continue to twist and distort all variety of living things, and the results can be deadly—or useful, to those who know how to harness the powers let loose in the animal kingdom.

Parazoology brings several critters from earlier editions of Shadowrun into Fourth Edition, while also introducing brand-new beasts. Inside you’ll find the stealthy and predatory cactus cat, the mind-altering stone toad, the horrific sea wolf, and twenty-seven other critters. Complete with full-color illustrations and game statistics for every beast, Parazoology provides a host of challenges, dangers, and potential resources for your Shadowrun game.

Jason H.
CanRay
Still waiting to hear a confirmation of Shadowtalk in the book or not. I wants me my smart-hooped comments from the soybean gallery, frag-nabbit!
Raven the Trickster
Pretty sure someone already confirmed it on the official forums (which I now realize you've already seen having looked at post timestamps)
CanRay
Yeah, just had that pointed out. Thanks for the heads up, however.

Just started posting to the other forums. Figured I get as much info as I can on things. And torture both groups with tales of Bubba the Love Troll. nyahnyah.gif
Bull
I haven't seen the whole thing yet, so I can't say for certain whether there's any Shadowtalk in the book at all, but judging by the previews, it looks like the critter entries follow the same format they used for Running Wild. And there was no individual Shadowtalk in there either. For good or bad, at least it's consistent, I suppose.

(For what it's worth, my preference for eBooks would be to use the PAoNA/PAoE style myself, kind of how MilTech went back to the Street Sammy Catalogue style. But the eBook line is still trying to find it's legs, and I know Parazoology has been in the works for a while now, so it may be just one of those things... <shrug>)

Bull
CanRay
You know, I probably should have checked Running Wild again before I opened my Soypie hole. But that wouldn't be sticking to the finest traditions of the Internet.

You know, whining and complaining about things we haven't bought or read or even fully understand as if we were experts on the topic. nyahnyah.gif

So far, I've been hearing positive things from people that have bought it, and, were I to use Paranormal Animals in my adventures more often, I would probably pick this up in a heartbeat. As it is, I rarely use them and are more likely to get one of the other PDFs that I haven't picked up yet, like the Gangs one, if I get some extra money.

If my group dynamics change, that could change just as easily. So far, my group has enough dealing with the traditional problems that Shadowrun 4E throws at them. Like wireless communications that can be tapped and RFID tags they keep forgetting to erase.
Bull
Yeah, books like this are going to be very subjective. Some games will get plenty of use out of them, some won;t use them at all. I know I rarely used critters when I GMed, and when I did they were more flavor than anything else, so I likely would have passed on the PDF if money was tight.

As for Art... That's highly subjective. I loved Laubenstein's art, and loathed MacDougals. But I know plenty of people who have the opposite opinion. I also found that while I liked Bradstreet from a technical standpoint, I found 99% of his pictures to be incredibly boring, because they all looked the same (Grungy guy in leather, standing or sitting aginst a brick wall, pistol held loosely in one hand, usually smoking a cigarette). So like I said, subjective. smile.gif (And I haven't seen most of the art for Parazoology yet, so I'm not praising or criticizing it yet. The stuff in the preview was decent, and better than some "classic" SR artists like Ausilio or MacDougal, IMO).

And again, I'll say this... I love Shadowtalk and want to see it in every PDF product. And I'll push to see that happen more. smile.gif

Bull
hermit
I'll repost my review from the other thread here. Slightly edited for clarity and things I felt I should include for the hell of it.

Is Kat Hardy Jason Hardy's wife? I bet she is; otherwise, that art would never have made it. Sirry, but it'S just bad, froma technical standpoint (the intention isn't half bad a couple of times, but the execution ... ...) The real bad pieces - Sea Wolf, this means you! - aren't in the preview, you have to pay for them.

The writing itself isn't so bad, it's fun to read actually, and written well, even though it could use soem polish here and there. Shadowtalk is missed though, but probably was cut due to space constraints (this is CGL cutting the costs on a product that's already produced at wages that would insult Bangladeshi sweatshop workers). Some stuff seems a tad superfluous - what, 2 more Gryphon species? Now there are six - Gryphon (sicne SR1 base bool) Asian Gryphon (since SR1 base book), Opinicus (since Paranormal Animals of Europe), Hippogriff (since Predator&Prey) and now criospinx and hieracospinx? That's ... making the Gryphon the topmost varied awakened species on the planet, surpassing Dragons and metahumans (both with five main variants). Intentional? Other stuff is a fun addition, like the evil sea elephant, the sidebar with awakened insects (I'm a sucker for such flavor), the Echeneis (which I am so gonna convert to an awakened Plecustymus catfish for Amazonia) or the gold falcon (finally something worth poaching that will not require a tank to kill!). And the Mongolian Death Worm, a classic long missing from SR paranimals (and Tremors sense! SR needs more shout outs to B-Movies classics). Why not add a Jenny Haniver though? Ah, but at least someone googled Parazoology while writing this. So the writing's the gopod part of this. Some critters are usable. Some even have me want to use them. Not bad in itself.

What Mr Large really needs is someone to help him with the rules bit - issues, mainly missing powers crucial to the animals described in the text (accident for the Alicanto, Influence for the Gyre, Accident for the Moon Dolphin, ect ...). This has shown in all PDFs of late, and it's not good. Given CGL has an all-but-officially-official no errata be released, ever policy, there needs to be more attention to getting it right the first time, at least. At least the poor fish have gills now, we gotta be thankful for the small things too.

Also, why is the ToC at the end and why is the content not alphabedically soted if the ToC is? Does that make the slightest sense? Why is there no introductionary writeup again? Why wasn't AAS contracted for the Art? He's awesome and loves the game so much he'll work sweatshop rates, how can that possibly be passed up!

Final impression: The file looks like another of Hardy's Hackjobs, laying waste to a product that could have been a lot better than it comes out. Pity, just when things started to pick up again on that front. Still, it's no total loss. Still, shadowtalk. It's important for the feel of shadowrun products. Would you please take note of that!
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Bull @ Mar 12 2011, 12:56 PM) *
I loved Laubenstein's art, and loathed MacDougals. But I know plenty of people who have the opposite opinion. I also found that while I liked Bradstreet from a technical standpoint, I found 99% of his pictures to be incredibly boring, because they all looked the same (Grungy guy in leather, standing or sitting aginst a brick wall, pistol held loosely in one hand, usually smoking a cigarette).

I loved Laubenstein as well. His warts-n'-all art really pulled me into the game in 1990. It really worked with Earthdawn too. I have a collection of Bradstreet's illios. Awesome pen-and-ink work and fine for Vampire but it's so photo reference heavy that he's incapable of producing creatures that can't be easily replicated on camera: orks, trolls, etc.

Kat Hardy's art in Parazoology is a mixed bag. Some of it's really good (Abram's Lobster! Score! love.gif) and some of it seems rushed (the cactus cat and bulldog stoat have weird anatomy issues). The century ferret itself looks cool but the layout of the page is... odd. I think that little troll is supposed to be in the background but with no perspective or foreground he's floating in a white void. Some of these renderings I can forgive due to artistic style. Others... not so much.
Bull
I'll note that no text was cut or is missing due to costs. eBooks pay a flat rate, word count doesn't really matter too much.
hermit
FWIW, I didn't like Laubenstein nor Dougal, I was a sucker for Mike Jackson and Bradstreet (yes, repetitive, but peppered in, adorable) and generally approve of the most recent artwork most.

QUOTE
Kat Hardy's art in Parazoology is a mixed bag.

That's putting it mildly. The lobster and the crab and a couple of others are acceptable, but the colors look like crayons, way too bright; shading is absent, backgrounds are odd (the desert-living cactus cat next to ... a river ...?) and anatomy issues run amok. Also, the art looks like medleys of photos, treated with art filters in photoshop in high res and then painted over with default brushes and a tablet. Shading? Perspective? Anatomy? Composition? And the artist never can decide between a minimal background and a full one, leading to weirdly-built cows and twolls who look a lot like copypaste jobs from other art floating in the grey nothingness of a game editor. Frankly, please use a different artist next time. I could do better, and I don't consider myself a good artist at all (for reference: my devart).

QUOTE
I'll note that no text was cut or is missing due to costs. eBooks pay a flat rate, word count doesn't really matter too much.

Allright, so this makes the total absence of one of Shadowrun's key style elements even more baffling.
Bull
QUOTE (hermit @ Mar 12 2011, 03:30 PM) *
Allright, so this makes the total absence of one of Shadowrun's key style elements even more baffling.


Again, as far as I can tell, the text was modeled after RUnning Wild, which did NOT have any Shadowtalk in it's critter write ups either. So it's consistent with the format of that book. And since I know you've been unhappy with the current SR administration, I should note that Running Wild was not developed by Jason Hardy at all. Peter Taylor, John Dunn, and Jennifer Harding are credited as the Dev team.

It's unfair to criticize a product for a missing design element when it was written to match the style of a previously published book which was also missing taht design element.

Bull
hermit
QUOTE
Again, as far as I can tell, the text was modeled after RUnning Wild, which did NOT have any Shadowtalk in it's critter write ups either. So it's consistent with the format of that book. And since I know you've been unhappy with the current SR administration, I should note that Running Wild was not developed by Jason Hardy at all. Peter Taylor, John Dunn, and Jennifer Harding are credited as the Dev team.

Fair enough, but that doesn't mean you can't - nor shouldn't - polish it. It's not like Synner or Dunner are infallible. And that, I don't see. Why no sensible order in the entries, either grouped by habitat as in Running Wild, toxic/nontoxic, or alphabetically, like in the PAoX books of old? It's not like that takes a lot of time or anything! And this is what I'd expect from Hardy to do or get it done.

Anyway, the text is the good part, as I wrote (shadowtalk be missed or not). On it's own, it is occasionally rough, but good to acceptable. The art drags it down a little. That PDF's not another War!.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Just took a look at the preview and I liked, then again, I'm happy this book is just PDF only, it is something niche enough that not every group would use (like my current group) but as soon as they decide to visit the great outdoors, I'm sure to pick it up.
hermit
You got this kind of fish around in Brazil, don't you? That's a perfect basis for a freshwater version of the Eichenes (I had these in a tank as a kid) I think ...
Brazilian_Shinobi
I think I've seen this fish in Belém, but a lighter (as in opposed to darker) species, can't remember its name though.
hermit
Yeah, they come in all kinds of color.
Pepsi Jedi
I loved Paranormal Animals of North America.

If they produce another one like that, they'll have my dollar. The shadow talk in that one is what hooked me on Shadowrun, and my games HEAVILY used them.
Wesley Street
QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Mar 12 2011, 08:12 PM) *
I loved Paranormal Animals of North America.

It's a safe bet that the one-entry-per-page format will never return... except in these PDFs. With low production costs, PDFs are the perfect vessel to experiment with the old 1st ed. format.

The lack of shadowjabber is disappointing. It's not terribly difficult to input a bit of fluff to pad out an entry.
Yerameyahu
I loathe and ignore all shadowtalk, so I'm glad they didn't waste the space. smile.gif
Prime Mover
Laubenstein set the tone early on regardless of what you thought he influenced Shadowruns image. Always liked Mike Jacksons stuff besides being decent he also incorporated actual elements from the books. Some of Smif's stuff captured the feel for me too.
CanRay
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 13 2011, 02:15 PM) *
I loathe and ignore all shadowtalk, so I'm glad they didn't waste the space. smile.gif

*Points* SHUN!!! nyahnyah.gif
ravensmuse
QUOTE (Wesley Street @ Mar 13 2011, 01:56 PM) *
The lack of shadowjabber is disappointing. It's not terribly difficult to input a bit of fluff to pad out an entry.

Welcome to the new era of gaming. "I don't want metaplot or fluff! That's the developer forcing me to use his terrible writing! I just want rules! I can come up with everything else myself!" Feh.

QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 13 2011, 02:15 PM) *
I loathe and ignore all shadowtalk, so I'm glad they didn't waste the space. smile.gif

Jesus, do you eat Quaker Oats for breakfast and a cheese sandwich on white bread with a little mayo for lunch? biggrin.gif

I'm always of two minds when it comes to Laubenstein. On one, it's all warty and out of proportion and just plain weird - but it's indelibly Shadowrun, and all of those warts and stuff are stuck in my head when I think SR.

But for my money, my favorite Shadowrun artist is Steven Prescott. He has range, he loves to do weird folks, folks with cyber, trolls, orks, not just your softies and pointy-ears, and it always has some element of humor to it. Plus, it doesn't hurt that I have two or three books signed by him...
Wesley Street
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Mar 13 2011, 10:40 PM) *
I'm always of two minds when it comes to Laubenstein. On one, it's all warty and out of proportion and just plain weird - but it's indelibly Shadowrun, and all of those warts and stuff are stuck in my head when I think SR.

To be fair, Laubenstein could do pretty. Well, okay... slutty. See the boobtastic sim star in Sprawl Sites. And his male elves were pretty. But his work stands out because he's one of the few RPG illustrators who actually does warts, horns, etc... rather than softcore porn and male wish fulfillment. Trolls ain't supposed to be sexy. And when you're jogging around the Redmond Barrens or the Shattergraves the natives aren't likely to have had leonization treatments.

He's also a product of his time. Cyberpunk from 1990 wasn't supposed to be pretty; it was supposed to be a little horrifying. Post-cyberpunk of the early '00s on the other hand... Plus, he drew backgrounds in almost everything. Even in 3" x 3" squares. I think that's pretty awesome.
darthmord
QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Mar 12 2011, 08:12 PM) *
I loved Paranormal Animals of North America.

If they produce another one like that, they'll have my dollar. The shadow talk in that one is what hooked me on Shadowrun, and my games HEAVILY used them.


Yep. This is why I've not bothered with another critter book ever since. They won't release them like that one.
Pepsi Jedi
QUOTE (darthmord @ Mar 14 2011, 12:50 PM) *
Yep. This is why I've not bothered with another critter book ever since. They won't release them like that one.


Well Paranormal Animals of Europe was done in the same style. I didn't like that one quite as much but it was still good. I was severely dissapointed that Running Wild didn't have the shadow talk like those. Even though Running Wild had other things that made it a good book.
etherial
QUOTE (Pepsi Jedi @ Mar 14 2011, 02:48 PM) *
Well Paranormal Animals of Europe was done in the same style. I didn't like that one quite as much but it was still good. I was severely dissapointed that Running Wild didn't have the shadow talk like those. Even though Running Wild had other things that made it a good book.


Is that style similar to Earthdawn's Creatures of Barsaive? Where it's all in-character descriptions of things?
Pepsi Jedi
Paranormal animals of North America and Europe was done sort of like a Zoological guide book for ... Paranomral animals. It's written like a real world researcher had researched them. The entry's were interesting, the GOOD part of it was that EACH entry had a nicely illistrated picture, and a page of Shadowtalk relating to it. some only had two or three comments but most had nearly a full page of stories where people had run into them and what happened, or how corps used them for security, or the 'real' origins. (( some of the drakes were engineered ect)) It brought the book to feel like the annimals were 'Real" not just lists of stats and stuff like a monster manuel.
Saint Sithney
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Mar 13 2011, 11:15 AM) *
I loathe and ignore all shadowtalk, so I'm glad they didn't waste the space. smile.gif



Well, it does add an avenue for multiple perspectives/truths available on demand, but generally it's useless and whatever info it adds was obviously removed from the text in the first place.
Pepsi Jedi
I highly disagree. Lots of the shadow talk gives you plot hooks to play off of and story seeds. Even a Lazy GM can find tons of stuff to do with the shadowtalk in any of the books
hermit
It also offers an easy pick and choose with touchy or controversial fluff. Text says A, Shadowtalk says hell no, B!, and the group can choose who is saying the truth. that kind of ambiguity made SR very flexible for different styles of play and different preferences about the background.
eudemonist
Bought the PDF. It's ok...probably won't ever use the vast majority of the critters, but that's all right, I guess. Little heavy on sea creatures and tiny stuff. Count me as another person who wants the IC writing style (and shadowtalk) back. Entry order is also weird--determined by randon die rolls? Gygax would be proud.

Also count me as another person confused by the troll in the Century Ferret illustration. What the hell?
Wesley Street
QUOTE (eudemonist @ Mar 28 2011, 04:16 PM) *
Also count me as another person confused by the troll in the Century Ferret illustration. What the hell?

He's so teeny and cute! rotfl.gif
hobgoblin
now that's a ferret!
CanRay
Hate to see what an Awakened Mongoose would be like...
hobgoblin
Hell, i want one as a guard animal cyber.gif
CanRay
"The thing about small furry animals in corners is that, just occasionally, one of them turns out to be a mongoose."
hobgoblin
Now you got me thinking about making a dwarf with "mongoose" as a handle smokin.gif
CanRay
I want to make a Mongoose Shaman.
hobgoblin
make him a dwarf with a bushy red beard wink.gif
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