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James McMurray
Anybody got house rules that take the accounting out of ammunition management? I'm thinking something along the lines of "pay X and you'll have a lifetime supply of that ammunition type" coupled with a limit to how much ammo people can carry on them.
Ascalaphus
On the "for" side, there'd be convenience. Big plus.

Three "againsts":
  • Are you still tracking how many bullets left in the gun? Because "time until reload" makes some guns better than others.
  • It makes special ammo less precious. This can be avoided by only allowing an "ammostyle" for ordinary ammo of course.
  • You might enjoy the occasional adventure where it's just a few PCs, waaaaaay too many enemies (say, bugs) and not nearly enough bullets to feel comfy.


On the whole, I generally can't be bothered to track minutiae like ammo. If I wanted to track it, I'd give the players some skittles or M&Ms to represent ammo - eat when used. That at least makes it less of an abstract bookkeeping thing.
K1ll5w1tch
QUOTE (Ascalaphus @ Mar 20 2011, 06:26 PM) *
On the "for" side, there'd be convenience. Big plus.

Three "againsts":
  • Are you still tracking how many bullets left in the gun? Because "time until reload" makes some guns better than others.
  • It makes special ammo less precious. This can be avoided by only allowing an "ammostyle" for ordinary ammo of course.
  • You might enjoy the occasional adventure where it's just a few PCs, waaaaaay too many enemies (say, bugs) and not nearly enough bullets to feel comfy.


On the whole, I generally can't be bothered to track minutiae like ammo. If I wanted to track it, I'd give the players some skittles or M&Ms to represent ammo - eat when used. That at least makes it less of an abstract bookkeeping thing.



Yeah I don't spend too much time book keeping that myself. It can distract from the game play. However if you feel inclined I have used a mission restock fee to account for used ammo repairing damaged armor and other such minutia. It works fairly well but you'll need to adjust it depending on the difficulty of the mission and how much combat went on. However Mages don't tend to spend much here. 100 to 500 nuyen depending on the lenght of the mission and difficulty of the combat seems reasonable. All that does is keep your ammo stocked and your armor in good condition. You can also add it to lifestyle to keep it even more simple.
CanRay
Maybe make it part of the Lifestyle Cost? Just a suggestion.
Thanee
QUOTE (James McMurray @ Mar 21 2011, 01:56 AM) *
Anybody got house rules that take the accounting out of ammunition management? I'm thinking something along the lines of "pay X and you'll have a lifetime supply of that ammunition type" coupled with a limit to how much ammo people can carry on them.


Regular Ammo is 2 per shot and Availability a non-issue, so just skip the whole process, deduct #rounds_used_up x2 in to refill your magazines.

Special Ammo should be bought normally, though.

Bye
Thanee
TheOOB
Special ammo can get expensive, especially if you start using autofire. Narcojet rounds cost 63 nuyen...per shot, and that long burst you just fired cost you 378. It's easy to keep track of ammo. The first thing I do is track my ammo in two ways, what ammo I'm taking with me(usually in clips), and what spare ammo I have at home(usually loose). During a run I just use scratch paper and tally off shots from each clip, and between runs I just reduce my spare ammo at home by the amount I used and have full clips for the next run.
phlapjack77
I would think ammo tracking would also vary between game types.

Pink-mohawk, I would say don't track ammo, at the very most just charge players a standard "ammo" fee before (after?) every run. Characters almost never run out of ammo, unless it makes for a cooler story or makes sense (autofiring for a long time etc)

Black trenchcoat, I think ammo tracking would be very important. Plus things like caseless ammo becomes an issue, using ammo that the character has had a long time is (possibly) magically trackable, shots fired from the same gun are CSI-able, etc.

I'd say, decide which side your campaign veers more towards, and do that.
CanRay
I thought Pink Mohawks tracked ammo by the "Clicking" sound their gun makes when it's broken, and it's time to take a new one out of the cold, dead hands of the guy they just killed? nyahnyah.gif
Ascalaphus
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 21 2011, 04:38 PM) *
I thought Pink Mohawks tracked ammo by the "Clicking" sound their gun makes when it's broken, and it's time to take a new one out of the cold, dead hands of the guy they just killed? nyahnyah.gif


Yes.

Unless they have a favorite gun of course. In that case they need to learn to loot only ammo.
sabs
House Rules I've used:

Medium Lifestyle+ covers regular ammo costs.
High Lifestyle+ covers ex-ex and AP ammo costs.
Luxury Lifestyle covers any ammo costs. (Except Stick and Shock, but that's because I hate SnS ammo and get rid of it in my games)

PCs have a 'load out' of how many clips, and quick recharges they carry. Those that own vehicles with smuggling compartments can have ammo in there. Unless of course, they're on the run, cut off, etc. Then ammo becomes a valuable commodity and they have what they're carrying and must use contacts to get more. (or swing by their house)
Yerameyahu
We just track everything. As everyone has said: clip size ('magazine size') is important, reloading is important. I'm fine with regular ammo being 'free', of course, in reasonable situations (lifestyle and access to markets). Special ammo is powerful, illegal/rare, and expensive, and you should have to plan ahead.
Draco18s
QUOTE (TheOOB @ Mar 21 2011, 04:38 AM) *
Special ammo can get expensive, especially if you start using autofire. Narcojet rounds cost 63 nuyen...per shot, and that long burst you just fired cost you 378. It's easy to keep track of ammo. The first thing I do is track my ammo in two ways, what ammo I'm taking with me(usually in clips), and what spare ammo I have at home(usually loose). During a run I just use scratch paper and tally off shots from each clip, and between runs I just reduce my spare ammo at home by the amount I used and have full clips for the next run.


Reminds me of a previous character of mine.

I tracked how many bullets were in my gun, and sometime around...session...8 I said, "Hum. I've got 12 bullets left. I should probably reload." And promptly popped the clip, shoved 48 (?) bullets into it, and popped it back in, then added about 12 gel rounds to the other clip in the gun (I love dual clips).
phlapjack77
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 21 2011, 11:38 PM) *
I thought Pink Mohawks tracked ammo by the "Clicking" sound their gun makes when it's broken, and it's time to take a new one out of the cold, dead hands of the guy they just killed? nyahnyah.gif


QUOTE (phlapjack77 @ Mar 21 2011, 05:59 PM) *
Pink-mohawk...Characters almost never run out of ammo, unless it makes for a cooler story...


nyahnyah.gif
Tanegar
One that I like, from a previous thread on house rules:
QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Jan 12 2011, 12:39 PM) *
Ammo Faucet assumes that regular rounds are cheap and easy enough to acquire that you only have to keep track of what's in your mag or on your belt - the cost of such rounds is covered in lifestyle or what-have-you. Exotic weapons and heavy weapons don't apply to this rule. Specialty ammo is still under normal rules.

CanRay
True enough, I mean, you can probably run down to the Stuffer Shack for some Soy Sloppies, a few Q-Colas, and a box of steel-jacketed Ball rounds...
KarmaInferno
Huh. I like that Ammo Faucet idea as a quality. Yoink!





-k
Tanegar
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Mar 22 2011, 07:50 AM) *
Huh. I like that Ammo Faucet idea as a quality. Yoink!

Lolwut? Regular ammo is already dirt cheap; why would anyone spend precious build points to make them effectively free?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Tanegar @ Mar 22 2011, 10:23 AM) *
Lolwut? Regular ammo is already dirt cheap; why would anyone spend precious build points to make them effectively free?

I'd spend 1 BP for that, but probably not much more...
Epicedion
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 21 2011, 11:38 PM) *
True enough, I mean, you can probably run down to the Stuffer Shack for some Soy Sloppies, a few Q-Colas, and a box of steel-jacketed Ball rounds...


New meaning to the phrase "guns and butter," huh?

Keeping track of ammo isn't really that hard. Every so often a player just needs to buy a few hundred nuyen.gif worth of regular ammo, and keep it listed wherever he has his safehouse junk listed. If you buy 500 or 1000 rounds to start, it's probably going to take awhile before you have to buy any more.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (KarmaInferno @ Mar 22 2011, 01:50 PM) *
Huh. I like that Ammo Faucet idea as a quality. Yoink!





-k


I like Ammo Faucet as a houserule simply because it means it's one less thing for GM's to micromanage. I think we can assume that runners are smart enough to have a constant supply of legal ammo so's they can reload after a 'run.

If you also assume 'runners hit the firing range from time to time in order to keep their skills sharp, then tossing it into the lifestyle maintenance isn't too far of a stretch.
Yerameyahu
I agree, Epicedion. That effectively *is* this 'Ammo Faucet', because all that really matters is the special ammo anyway.
Raven the Trickster
Honest question for those who shoot regularly in real life, how much ammo would one go through in a month going to the range regularly? How much in a single extended session?
Doc Chase
I'll go through ten mags or so when I go to the range. If I'm going out to the boonies with pals, it'll be twice that in 9mm, about that in .40, 100 12-gauge shells, and around 300 in 5.56.

In a play session I've yet to require swapping out a magazine.
Epicedion
QUOTE (Raven the Trickster @ Mar 22 2011, 02:56 PM) *
Honest question for those who shoot regularly in real life, how much ammo would one go through in a month going to the range regularly? How much in a single extended session?


I generally plan on going through about 100-200 rounds in an hour, depending on how I'm shooting. Ammo's expensive.

QUOTE (Doc Chase @ Mar 22 2011, 02:59 PM) *
In a play session I've yet to require swapping out a magazine.


It's a little bit too easy to hit people in SR, even if you suck. That translates into low ammo expenditure.
Raven the Trickster
Sounds like my ballpark estimate was about right then. I had my character do a couple of intense days between a standard range and an AR shoothouse and figured about 600 rounds a day was what he'd need. Even with regular ammo that gets to be a lot to roll into any lifestyle short of High, and even a lot there really.
Doc Chase
QUOTE (Raven the Trickster @ Mar 22 2011, 08:13 PM) *
Sounds like my ballpark estimate was about right then. I had my character do a couple of intense days between a standard range and an AR shoothouse and figured about 600 rounds a day was what he'd need. Even with regular ammo that gets to be a lot to roll into any lifestyle short of High, and even a lot there really.


Personally I'll file it under my Entertainment budget. Or Education, if I have any funding left.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Raven the Trickster @ Mar 22 2011, 12:56 PM) *
Honest question for those who shoot regularly in real life, how much ammo would one go through in a month going to the range regularly? How much in a single extended session?


When I was a regular at the Pistol range (When I was in th e marine Corps, which was Every weekend), I went through 4 boxes of .44 Magnum loads, and 6-10 boxes of 9mm rounds, and a Brick for my .22 rounds.

This did not include my expenditures for Military weapons, which varied depending upon the relevant training. Usually switched between Shotgun, M-16, .45 Handgun, and M-60 Machine Gun rounds. This was during my Marine Corps Barracks Duty days. In the Infantry, it highly varied, Mostly Assault Rifle/Machine Guns and Rockets.

Unfortunately for me, I have not been to the range in years. I really should get back to it.

I, too, would file that under Entertainment, when I did pursue it diligently.
Raven the Trickster
For the uninitiated, how many rounds in a box/brick?
CanRay
50 to a box and 100 to a brick, IIRC.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Raven the Trickster @ Mar 22 2011, 04:22 PM) *
For the uninitiated, how many rounds in a box/brick?


50 Rounds/Box for Pistol Calibers (at the time, I think you can get them in 20 round boxes now)
500 Rounds/Brick for .22 Ammunition (10 Boxes of 50 Rounds)
Fringe
For pistol calibers, usually 50 rounds/box for basic stuff. Some of the specialty rounds come in 20-round boxes. (I keep Power Ball ammo for personal protection, and it comes in 20s.)

Another point to consider: Do you (or does your character) practice with the same ammo you expect to shoot? Or do you practice with basic (FMJ or ball) ammo and load special ammo for carry? I've heard experts say you should practice with the same ammo you're loading for action, but I think a lot of people ignore that.

I'd say roll basic ammo practice into Middle or higher lifestyle unless you're going to the range more than once a week or so, most other ammo types (or more frequent practice) might require High+ or you might track expenses separately.
CanRay
What? No cheap 6-Packs for Revolver Ammo?

Boo! nyahnyah.gif
Critias
QUOTE (Fringe @ Mar 22 2011, 07:56 PM) *
Another point to consider: Do you (or does your character) practice with the same ammo you expect to shoot? Or do you practice with basic (FMJ or ball) ammo and load special ammo for carry? I've heard experts say you should practice with the same ammo you're loading for action, but I think a lot of people ignore that.

If my self-defense ammo didn't cost over ten times what my practice ammo did, I'd take their advice more seriously. When I can pick up a hundred rounds of Winchester (white box, 9mm) ammo at Wally World for $15, and it's about $20 for a ten-round box of the hollow points I like...yeah, sorry. Not gonna happen.

It's a good idea if you can afford it, but you'll notice that those self-same "experts" don't require it when they run defensive shooting classes. Folks show up to their courses with the cheapest reliable ammo they can find, they don't put a thousand rounds of hollow point goodness downrange over a weekend training session -- and those experts themselves, teaching the classes, are often doing the same thing.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Critias @ Mar 22 2011, 06:24 PM) *
If my self-defense ammo didn't cost over ten times what my practice ammo did, I'd take their advice more seriously. When I can pick up a hundred rounds of Winchester (white box, 9mm) ammo at Wally World for $15, and it's about $20 for a ten-round box of the hollow points I like...yeah, sorry. Not gonna happen.

It's a good idea if you can afford it, but you'll notice that those self-same "experts" don't require it when they run defensive shooting classes. Folks show up to their courses with the cheapest reliable ammo they can find, they don't put a thousand rounds of hollow point goodness downrange over a weekend training session -- and those experts themselves, teaching the classes, are often doing the same thing.


Quoted for Truth... smokin.gif
CanRay
Also, note the "Reliable" part of that statement! Firearms eat ammo differently. Some work just fine on the cheapest fare, some are more finicky. Some will enjoy reloaded brass while others will just misfeed after misfeed.

If you can, test out your firearm with various brands of ammo. Some might make it happier than others.

Or, so I've been informed...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 22 2011, 07:47 PM) *
Also, note the "Reliable" part of that statement! Firearms eat ammo differently. Some work just fine on the cheapest fare, some are more finicky. Some will enjoy reloaded brass while others will just misfeed after misfeed.

If you can, test out your firearm with various brands of ammo. Some might make it happier than others.

Or, so I've been informed...


Yeah, My old Smith 9mm Automatic would rapid feed Empty Brass from the Magazine, with never a jam. I really miss that Pistol. 10's of Thousands of rounds fired through it, and not a single jam. Smoothest action for any pistol I ever owned. It was an absolute dream to shoot.
Ed_209a
At my table, we don't have to buy regular ammo; it is considered part of lifestyle. Special ammo is handled as in RAW.

Our rationale for that is that if our chars have a firearm skill over 2 or so, it takes regular practice to keep it there. For every round fired on a run, a magazine is probably fired at the range.

So, our GM just asks us what we are carrying, and we say such & such a weapon, with so & so mags. As long as it is reasonable, ("The Alpha with the belt-feed mod? To a S-K awards banquet? Really?") that is the end of it.
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