So from the search I get the impression that people hated to amnesia flaw in SR3. I think I disagree, I'm planning a campaign with all the players having amnesia(5). In short none of them have any idea who they are or what they can do.
So my question is this.
How do I tell them what they can do so that its fun for them but also makes the flaw worth it given that it's one of the worse flaws in 'runner's companion?
Full Version: Amnesia
IMHO this flaw is not that bad. The higher-rating one (IIRC 10 BP) IS that bad. You could describe e.g. that as they take the gun in the hand, they automatically feel familiar with it, they know how they have to handle the thing, what kind of weapon it is and which advantages/disadvantages it has. They donīt know where this feeling comes from, but they know that this seems to be something from their past. Unfortunately they never know what they can do before they try. So sending some of the group into an infight without having the approbriate skill....i think he will quick recognize that this is nothing he can do.^^ So the risk is still there, but they should have fun finding out what they can do. I hope you can deal with this difficult task as their GM. Otherwise character-deaths are unavoidable.^^
Maybe you could start by having your amnesiac PCs wandering through a mall, and tell them they feel drawn to whatever store meshes with their capabilities: CommlinkWorld for the hacker, Madame Blavatasky's Curios for the mage, etc. You just need to explain how they wound up with huge wads of cash in their pockets after being rolled.
well, amnesia level 5 is one of the worst things if done wrong. I tried what you are planning a while back and got mixed feedback for my approach on letting them know who and what they are and can do. Obviously the cyberware and gear they have can give them clues.
We had the most fun when the mage realized what he was AFTER he had cast his fifth spell... I could pick up on the characters emotions (luckily he was a good role-player) and let him cast spells according to them and give him illusions about his totem. With the others it was harder, for example they had one car between them and untill they had figured out whose it was (no rigger in the group) it was on S damage.
Generally it is easier to figure out what the character can do the more they are focussed on combat. Faces need lots of role-playing and hints from the other characters or npcs ("dude, you totally convinced me, i'm glad you didn't want me to dance naked on the street'). im glad we didnt have a decker on the team, i dont know how i wouldhave handled that.
You can trust your players to figure out what they can do pretty fast and if you dont want amnesia-5 to be the "my gm builds me a cool character"-flaw but rather like "damn, okay, i am a streetsam/mage/whatever, but how did i get here and why is nobody answering my calls? And who are the guys chasing me?" you have to let them work for every bit of info that is not about their abilities but about who they are and what went wrong.
The game can be a lot of fun then for all of you. (dont read on if you dont want the But, ...
)
Sadly,after the first couple of sessions it went downhill and we turned back to normal ahadowrun.
I think the main reason for this was that the players could not have a level of immersion they could have with characters they built themselfes. Maybe you could counter that with letting your players outline to you what character they want to play instead of just letting them name the 'class' they want to play as i did.
Another reason it didnt work out was the difference between the amnesia-game and our previous sessions. Amnesia (at least to me and my players when we talked about it before) is about finding out what happened and them seeking truth/revenge/refuge or something similar, where a normal shadowrun is about meeting mr johnson, legwork, planning and then the run.
My players did seem to tire from the lot of legwork they had to do in the beginning. I tried to build in some fight-scenes and datasteal runs to balance this as soon as i noticed and that at least stalled the inevitable.
In the end my thought was "well, that could have gone better and worse"
You should talk to your players about what you and they expect and plan accordingly.
Almost forgot: CanRay wrote a great story abound amnesia, the link is in his sig and i suggest it for inspiration. I dont know which one it is exactely, but i think it was called "a night to never remember". Just check them all out, they all are a great read.
We had the most fun when the mage realized what he was AFTER he had cast his fifth spell... I could pick up on the characters emotions (luckily he was a good role-player) and let him cast spells according to them and give him illusions about his totem. With the others it was harder, for example they had one car between them and untill they had figured out whose it was (no rigger in the group) it was on S damage.
Generally it is easier to figure out what the character can do the more they are focussed on combat. Faces need lots of role-playing and hints from the other characters or npcs ("dude, you totally convinced me, i'm glad you didn't want me to dance naked on the street'). im glad we didnt have a decker on the team, i dont know how i wouldhave handled that.
You can trust your players to figure out what they can do pretty fast and if you dont want amnesia-5 to be the "my gm builds me a cool character"-flaw but rather like "damn, okay, i am a streetsam/mage/whatever, but how did i get here and why is nobody answering my calls? And who are the guys chasing me?" you have to let them work for every bit of info that is not about their abilities but about who they are and what went wrong.
The game can be a lot of fun then for all of you. (dont read on if you dont want the But, ...
)Sadly,after the first couple of sessions it went downhill and we turned back to normal ahadowrun.
I think the main reason for this was that the players could not have a level of immersion they could have with characters they built themselfes. Maybe you could counter that with letting your players outline to you what character they want to play instead of just letting them name the 'class' they want to play as i did.
Another reason it didnt work out was the difference between the amnesia-game and our previous sessions. Amnesia (at least to me and my players when we talked about it before) is about finding out what happened and them seeking truth/revenge/refuge or something similar, where a normal shadowrun is about meeting mr johnson, legwork, planning and then the run.
My players did seem to tire from the lot of legwork they had to do in the beginning. I tried to build in some fight-scenes and datasteal runs to balance this as soon as i noticed and that at least stalled the inevitable.
In the end my thought was "well, that could have gone better and worse"
You should talk to your players about what you and they expect and plan accordingly.
Almost forgot: CanRay wrote a great story abound amnesia, the link is in his sig and i suggest it for inspiration. I dont know which one it is exactely, but i think it was called "a night to never remember". Just check them all out, they all are a great read.
QUOTE (The Shuhite @ Apr 20 2011, 02:56 AM) 
So from the search I get the impression that people hated to amnesia flaw in SR3. I think I disagree, I'm planning a campaign with all the players having amnesia(5). In short none of them have any idea who they are or what they can do.
So my question is this.
How do I tell them what they can do so that its fun for them but also makes the flaw worth it given that it's one of the worse flaws in 'runner's companion?
So my question is this.
How do I tell them what they can do so that its fun for them but also makes the flaw worth it given that it's one of the worse flaws in 'runner's companion?
Congratulations, you've just discovered part of why the flaw is hated.
~J
Amnesia is a perfectly fine flaw, except insofar that it puts all the work on the GM (who already has too much work to do!) If you're putting it on the entire party, however, you're clearly already ready for that work.
The thing to remember with flaws is, as the flaw is removed, it must be paid off in karma (in this case, 100 or 200 karma, for the 5- or 10-point flaw, respectively), or replaced with a new flaw of equal or greater value. You should already have a new flaw (or flaws) in mind. An easy one is Hunted and/or Enemy. Their memory is quickly jogged by a group of mercenaries peppering the area with MMG fire. Now they know! Someone is after them. A smart GM will swap amnesia for its replacement flaw in such a way that the characters necessarily bungle through and accrue additional flaws. For instance, their Enemy carefully maneuvers them into negotiating with the Yaks, who the Enemy pays off to hold the PCs and kill them. When the PCs realize this, they fight their way free, killing many Yaks and embarassing the rest. Now they have not only the 5-point enemy (really, it should be 5 * number of characters, since this is a shared enemy flaw), they're also now Hunted/Black Mark with the Yaks.
Amensia also synergizes well with several other flaws, such as hallucinations, compulsion, black mark, paranoia and so on. Each of these flaws multiply their effectiveness when used with amnesia, making them very exciting.
The thing to remember with flaws is, as the flaw is removed, it must be paid off in karma (in this case, 100 or 200 karma, for the 5- or 10-point flaw, respectively), or replaced with a new flaw of equal or greater value. You should already have a new flaw (or flaws) in mind. An easy one is Hunted and/or Enemy. Their memory is quickly jogged by a group of mercenaries peppering the area with MMG fire. Now they know! Someone is after them. A smart GM will swap amnesia for its replacement flaw in such a way that the characters necessarily bungle through and accrue additional flaws. For instance, their Enemy carefully maneuvers them into negotiating with the Yaks, who the Enemy pays off to hold the PCs and kill them. When the PCs realize this, they fight their way free, killing many Yaks and embarassing the rest. Now they have not only the 5-point enemy (really, it should be 5 * number of characters, since this is a shared enemy flaw), they're also now Hunted/Black Mark with the Yaks.
Amensia also synergizes well with several other flaws, such as hallucinations, compulsion, black mark, paranoia and so on. Each of these flaws multiply their effectiveness when used with amnesia, making them very exciting.
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 20 2011, 07:45 AM)
Amnesia is a perfectly fine flaw, except insofar that it puts all the work on the GM (who already has too much work to do!) If you're putting it on the entire party, however, you're clearly already ready for that work.
The thing to remember with flaws is, as the flaw is removed, it must be paid off in karma (in this case, 100 or 200 karma, for the 5- or 10-point flaw, respectively), or replaced with a new flaw of equal or greater value. You should already have a new flaw (or flaws) in mind. An easy one is Hunted and/or Enemy. Their memory is quickly jogged by a group of mercenaries peppering the area with MMG fire. Now they know! Someone is after them. A smart GM will swap amnesia for its replacement flaw in such a way that the characters necessarily bungle through and accrue additional flaws. For instance, their Enemy carefully maneuvers them into negotiating with the Yaks, who the Enemy pays off to hold the PCs and kill them. When the PCs realize this, they fight their way free, killing many Yaks and embarassing the rest. Now they have not only the 5-point enemy (really, it should be 5 * number of characters, since this is a shared enemy flaw), they're also now Hunted/Black Mark with the Yaks.
Amensia also synergizes well with several other flaws, such as hallucinations, compulsion, black mark, paranoia and so on. Each of these flaws multiply their effectiveness when used with amnesia, making them very exciting.
The thing to remember with flaws is, as the flaw is removed, it must be paid off in karma (in this case, 100 or 200 karma, for the 5- or 10-point flaw, respectively), or replaced with a new flaw of equal or greater value. You should already have a new flaw (or flaws) in mind. An easy one is Hunted and/or Enemy. Their memory is quickly jogged by a group of mercenaries peppering the area with MMG fire. Now they know! Someone is after them. A smart GM will swap amnesia for its replacement flaw in such a way that the characters necessarily bungle through and accrue additional flaws. For instance, their Enemy carefully maneuvers them into negotiating with the Yaks, who the Enemy pays off to hold the PCs and kill them. When the PCs realize this, they fight their way free, killing many Yaks and embarassing the rest. Now they have not only the 5-point enemy (really, it should be 5 * number of characters, since this is a shared enemy flaw), they're also now Hunted/Black Mark with the Yaks.
Amensia also synergizes well with several other flaws, such as hallucinations, compulsion, black mark, paranoia and so on. Each of these flaws multiply their effectiveness when used with amnesia, making them very exciting.
I think that you mean 20 or 50 Karma to buy it off, not 100 or 200. Seing as it costs double BP Cost to remove the Negative Quality. And the Amnesia Quality is 10 or 25 BP respectively. AS for replacement of the negative quality as you go, that is the route I would take. I actually like the Cheaper version of Negative Quality.
...as a GM I disallowed the flaw for, as Nezumi mentioned, I had enough to keep me busy without having to come up with, and maintain, a PC's backstory.
My usual threat was, "You remember [insert character name] who I played in [insert GM's name] campaign...and you're willing to trust me with writing up your character's background?"
...that usually did the trick.
My usual threat was, "You remember [insert character name] who I played in [insert GM's name] campaign...and you're willing to trust me with writing up your character's background?"
...that usually did the trick.
Reminds me of a character (whose name escapes me) from "Warbreaker", an important person who has no idea who or what he was before he became so.
[ Spoiler ]
Do they remember getting amnesia?
The plan is that they wake up in Chicago in the care of a kindly Ghoul. They are obviously very well equipped and chromed but don't have much ammo and none of it is missing from their clips. The ghoul tells them he found them in a blast zone and nursed them back to health and wants something in return.
Things are still sketchy as this run won't happen for a couple months yet.
Things are still sketchy as this run won't happen for a couple months yet.
Amnesia is the GM's cue for unlocking the "Be a total BASTARD" cabinet of horrors.
Never make it easy - Suggestions:
* have warrants for their arrest
* allergies to common items
* a pissed-off Girlfriend AND Boyfriend in the next town waiting with their inbred family
* Pirates calling in past promises (with a Vid to show it's all legal)
* Paternity issues
* lost pets returned to the team in the middle of the night,
* parking infractions
* missed bail hearings
* An angry landlord wanting his month's rent. And the rent is 1 pint of blood.
* An angry gang wanting to clean the mark off of their honour with your blood
* One phrase: Spirit Bane
* Nude pictures of the most charasimatic teammate (along with their com-link number) scattered from every men's toilet from Seattle to New York
* A Technomancer's little bag of tricks waiting for the target as soon as they go online
* A craving for meat, preferrably raw. (Malfunctioning digestive bioware, but don't let on to your players...)
* A case full of stolen jewelry, and the preserved reproductive organs of the amnesiac (in a jar) in there as well...
* A very strong feeling that they're the wrong sex. (Malfunctioning personafix) Absent-mindedly buying clothing for such....
* No knowledge of comlinks, AR, etc. (Horrible and fun.."Wait, what YEAR is it?!?")
* A makeshift army of semi-lethal drones that attack at midnight and leave at 1am.
* A group of nice, hardworking souls (Bus or monorail are good for this) that seem to recognise you, then grow pale and run from the target, screaming for security. Have your player turn around to see the bad image of their ugly mug with "Wanted - serial killer on public transport. Report to Law Enforcement or the Dunkie institute for Blood Mage reward" (Mistaken identity, but all too good if the Blood Mage sees the opportunity to muddy the waters by having you take the blame for the crimes they've comitted)
* An early-morning wakeup call that's hard-coded into your comlink...and keeps playing, even if you move to a different comlink.
* Odd deliveries to the victim's place of rest, addressed in their own handwriting.
* A watcher spirit that comes up to the player at 3pm each tuesday and asks them simple math questions. Have it disappear if correct, scream the questions loudly if wrong (until correct). And have a great-form come by and slap the target upside the head if they destroy the watcher. (Stun only)
And so on and so-forth. Hell, I'd have a go at including the entire list into the shit that the amnesiac has to deal with...
Yes, amnesia makes the GM cry.
It's up to the GM to return the favour.
-Tir
Never make it easy - Suggestions:
* have warrants for their arrest
* allergies to common items
* a pissed-off Girlfriend AND Boyfriend in the next town waiting with their inbred family
* Pirates calling in past promises (with a Vid to show it's all legal)
* Paternity issues
* lost pets returned to the team in the middle of the night,
* parking infractions
* missed bail hearings
* An angry landlord wanting his month's rent. And the rent is 1 pint of blood.
* An angry gang wanting to clean the mark off of their honour with your blood
* One phrase: Spirit Bane
* Nude pictures of the most charasimatic teammate (along with their com-link number) scattered from every men's toilet from Seattle to New York
* A Technomancer's little bag of tricks waiting for the target as soon as they go online
* A craving for meat, preferrably raw. (Malfunctioning digestive bioware, but don't let on to your players...)
* A case full of stolen jewelry, and the preserved reproductive organs of the amnesiac (in a jar) in there as well...
* A very strong feeling that they're the wrong sex. (Malfunctioning personafix) Absent-mindedly buying clothing for such....
* No knowledge of comlinks, AR, etc. (Horrible and fun.."Wait, what YEAR is it?!?")
* A makeshift army of semi-lethal drones that attack at midnight and leave at 1am.
* A group of nice, hardworking souls (Bus or monorail are good for this) that seem to recognise you, then grow pale and run from the target, screaming for security. Have your player turn around to see the bad image of their ugly mug with "Wanted - serial killer on public transport. Report to Law Enforcement or the Dunkie institute for Blood Mage reward" (Mistaken identity, but all too good if the Blood Mage sees the opportunity to muddy the waters by having you take the blame for the crimes they've comitted)
* An early-morning wakeup call that's hard-coded into your comlink...and keeps playing, even if you move to a different comlink.
* Odd deliveries to the victim's place of rest, addressed in their own handwriting.
* A watcher spirit that comes up to the player at 3pm each tuesday and asks them simple math questions. Have it disappear if correct, scream the questions loudly if wrong (until correct). And have a great-form come by and slap the target upside the head if they destroy the watcher. (Stun only)
And so on and so-forth. Hell, I'd have a go at including the entire list into the shit that the amnesiac has to deal with...
Yes, amnesia makes the GM cry.
It's up to the GM to return the favour.
-Tir
Amnesia and Story Structure
The guy is talking about video games, but in terms of story structure consider this when designing your campaign.
The guy is talking about video games, but in terms of story structure consider this when designing your campaign.
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 20 2011, 09:42 PM)
I think that you mean 20 or 50 Karma to buy it off, not 100 or 200. Seing as it costs double BP Cost to remove the Negative Quality. And the Amnesia Quality is 10 or 25 BP respectively. AS for replacement of the negative quality as you go, that is the route I would take. I actually like the Cheaper version of Negative Quality.
Sorry, we were both wrong. Cost is 10x number of flaw points. Amnesia is -2 to -5 (I got -5/-10 from the OP). But the thrust of my point is correct.
I don't know where you're getting 2x from. I believe you read it, but I suspect your book is broken.
He's probably ignoring the edition tag. 2x seems reasonable for 4E BP counts.
~J
~J
QUOTE (nezumi @ Apr 21 2011, 05:53 AM)
Sorry, we were both wrong. Cost is 10x number of flaw points. Amnesia is -2 to -5 (I got -5/-10 from the OP). But the thrust of my point is correct.
I don't know where you're getting 2x from. I believe you read it, but I suspect your book is broken.
I don't know where you're getting 2x from. I believe you read it, but I suspect your book is broken.
Ahhh... You must be talking about 3rd Edition... Did I miss a tag Somewhere? Must have. My data was from 4th Edition. Sorry for the confusion.
It's alright, I always enjoy the opportunity to tease 
QUOTE (Fortinbras @ Apr 21 2011, 02:11 AM)
Amnesia and Story Structure
The guy is talking about video games, but in terms of story structure consider this when designing your campaign.
The guy is talking about video games, but in terms of story structure consider this when designing your campaign.
Lovely movie, thanks.
Having played a campaign where all of our characters had Amnesia we basically had 2 character sheets. 1 that the GM kept for reference and then a largely blank one that we had. We started out washed up on a shore and really the only thing we knew was 1) a preferred language to speak and 2) those other guys are trusted friends
From there it was a lot of stumbling about trying to figure out who we were (never happened) and what we could do. All our skills were there, our bodies remember them it is just that we were not consciously aware we know how to do it. It turned out that after we realized we had a particular skillset we would learn what our skill rating was and could write it down. Obviously some were much quicker to determine then others.
As for the campaign, it is up to the GM to determine why that happened and potential hooks for them to look into it. Keep in mind that there is a chance the players would say "we don't want to know, we came out alive next time we might not be"
From there it was a lot of stumbling about trying to figure out who we were (never happened) and what we could do. All our skills were there, our bodies remember them it is just that we were not consciously aware we know how to do it. It turned out that after we realized we had a particular skillset we would learn what our skill rating was and could write it down. Obviously some were much quicker to determine then others.
As for the campaign, it is up to the GM to determine why that happened and potential hooks for them to look into it. Keep in mind that there is a chance the players would say "we don't want to know, we came out alive next time we might not be"
...the closest I ever came to playing a character with "memory issues" was a Fallen Angel of the Seraphim who had the Incomplete Deprogramming flaw (used just a few too many Aliasofts in her career). Was actually lots of fun. Still had to supply a primary backstory for those lucid times.
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