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Loch
With my Russian shadowrunners winding down for the summer, I'm looking ahead to the next campaign, where I'll be a player, not the GM. We'll be using a karmagen system instead of build points, with 750 karma available at chargen. All metavariants of the standard metatypes are open, as is SURGE up to level 2. The big thing though? Gear restrictions. We'll be allowed gear up to normal availability 12, but only 10R and only 8F. That puts a street sam or hacker right out for me, but I'm thinking with karmagen it might be fun to roll up a technomancer. Trouble is, I have almost no ideas on where to start. I'm thinking Dwarf might be good for race thanks to the willpower, and I'm thinking about picking up some unarmed combat skills/martial arts to use with Resonance Trodes and a Black IC complex form, but that's about the furthest I've looked into it.
Xahn Borealis
Consider a datajack or headware commlink if you go for augmentations. Built in data storage with no wireless risk (at least, no more than normal) and the jack lets you use chips and jack in physically if you're being jammed.
squee_nabob
While you could do a resonance trodes melee build, that seems like a great deal of work. Have you considered drones?

Also, is the availability cap only for character creation? Perhaps the face can get you a drone after the first run? Can you get Restricted Gear as a Quality?

Dwarves are ok, but you can be other streams besides willpower based. You could consider an Elf with a Charisma based stream, or a slightly cybered TM with a Logic-based stream.

A built-in datajack or headware comlink would not be my first move for cyberware. Your TM skills (hacking, etc) do not let you use programs, so you are basically buying the same character abilities twice.

If you are worried about being jammed, use a satellite uplink (signal cool.gif and then thread ECCM (3+) the most powerful jammer is rating 10, so that will defeat it. Jamming on the Fly is a whole different story, but that you defeat with a sat uplink and the electronic warfare skill.

Iíve not used karma-gen but the TMs types that I think are the best are either:

Maximize charisma hacker-type TMs (charisma lets you soak fade, because you can be an elf and have 9 charisma), and Logic based partially cybered TMs. It is very hard to be a TM who can do meat-combat. My suggestion is get a badass drone and use that.

If you want more specifics I can post my SR Missions TM.

Edit: Fingernail data storage unit from arsenal is how you store data. Either that or on your cloths.
SpellBinder
In the way of data storage, a more subtle and essence friendly way is the Fingernail Data Storage (Arsenal, page 63).
Irion
Well, the technomancer is one of the few characters who is loosing in Karma Gen.
Your complex forms get expensive as hell. (And since writing your own prog. is so easy considering the rules)
Even a Raiting 4 complex Form costs you 1+2+3+4=10 Karma, Raiting 6 even 21 Karma.

So I guess I would think of getting the complex forms on low levels first (as Resonance) and get yourselve some cyber.
The normal powergamer technomancer build: Logic 5, Ressonance 6 and 10 complex form at 6 for 125BP does not work. (It would cost you 70+100+ 210=380 Karma)
So I guess it is better to start low and get high fade resistance to thread the forms you need up a bit.
Xahn Borealis
Talking of threading, see if your GM will let you specialise your Software skill in Threading.
Udoshi
Regarding BP vs Karmagen, it actually works out very well for technos. While CF's aren't as good a deal, everything else is. I did a comparison character post a while ago, and since you're making a first-time TM, you may want to look at it for ideas.

Threading is a valid specialization for Software; the FAQ clears this up. The book's examples aren't a comprehensive list, and players can make up their own. Gm can still disapprove of it, but, well, they can do that for anything they don't like.


Around my parts, the Martial Arts/Skinlink->resonance trodes/blackout combination is known as The Vulcan Mind-Melding martial artist. Its pretty effective, but there's a few things you're going to need for it to work.

You're going to want the Macro echo, so you can initiate the black ic attack as part of the same action as establishing the touch link. Keep in mind that since you can thread program options, the Psychotropic option is incredibly viable for instant temporary brainwashing. The clinch maneuver can be used to get close enough to touch someone, until they spend an action to try and break the hold. All you need to initiate it is a melee attack, so it combos very nicely with Riposte: by parrying it and hitting back you can set someone up for a resonance-trode based attack on your next action. This is where Macro also comes back to be super nasty: immediate actions are still complex actions, which means your Macro works with it, so you can, say.... full defense AND do something on the internet at the same time. Same thing with Finishing Move.
The downside and MAJOR drawback is...... its a little expensive to use Macro in cyber combat: you need the mesh reality echo, which has the multiprocessing prerequisite. Mesh reality, however, DOES let you fight in the meat space and the cyberspace at the same time, but at a penalty. You can compensate for this penalty in the meat with a Tacnet, and by threading/sprite assisting your combat complex forms to a higher rating for more dice on the cyber level.

Its definitely DOABLE. But you're looking at a minimum of five echoes before you can -really- own with it. And that doesn't even account for getting extra passes to be generally combat-effective.(IP drugs actually work fairly well for this)
Megu
>Russian shadowrunners

Is this the campaign that's been posted about on /tg/ quite a bit? Sup, this is SR4rry.
Irion
QUOTE
Reson. 5 (Raised from 0->5, due to a point of ware)

Excuse me: Would you not need to raise from 1 to 6 and end up with 5, if you use one point of ware?
(I mean if you use it like this, why not just get 2 points of ware?)
Loch
QUOTE (Megu @ Apr 26 2011, 12:12 AM) *
>Russian shadowrunners

Is this the campaign that's been posted about on /tg/ quite a bit? Sup, this is SR4rry.


It is indeed. Finished up the arc last Sunday. It's a uni group, so we're taking a break for the summer, and coming back in the fall with a pink mohawk-style game in the Caribbean League.

Everybody had a fantastic time, right up to the end with Rasputin. I haven't posted a thread up about that game in ages, but I could always start again. wink.gif
Irion
QUOTE
Regarding BP vs Karmagen, it actually works out very well for technos.

If you use the 3 multiplier for attributes they are better than 400BP technomancers, yes. But everyone else is a demi god (compared to their 400 BP counterpart).
Udoshi
QUOTE (Irion @ Apr 26 2011, 08:22 AM) *
If you use the 3 multiplier for attributes they are better than 400BP technomancers, yes. But everyone else is a demi god (compared to their 400 BP counterpart).


Sorry, this is completely misinformed. Karmagen with 5x is still great for technomancers, just not as brokenly overpowered as using 3x attributes.

Again, check out the thread I linked. The build therein has costs for both BP and karma, and karma has a 150 point surplus, while BP has.... one point to spare. Under german/errata'd karmagen rules, to boot.
Megu
QUOTE (Loch @ Apr 26 2011, 07:39 AM) *
It is indeed. Finished up the arc last Sunday. It's a uni group, so we're taking a break for the summer, and coming back in the fall with a pink mohawk-style game in the Caribbean League.

Everybody had a fantastic time, right up to the end with Rasputin. I haven't posted a thread up about that game in ages, but I could always start again. wink.gif


Well yeah, keep us updated, man. smile.gif Except not for two more days, I'm still banned for doubles. :/
Loch
Since we're doing Karmagen, I was thinking about taking a few grades of submersion. It seems like buying complex forms at high rating just gets a bit ridiculous when I can easily get 16+ dice for threading whenever I need things.

How much submersion at chargen would be too much? Any suggestions for what echoes to take? I'm thinking about getting anywhere from 2-4 grades (I'll only be paying .6 of the cost each grade, thanks to some handy contacts) and picking up something like the following:
1. Skinlink
2. Multiprocessing
3. Mesh Reality
4. Overclocking

E-Sensing and Biowire also look like fun.

Also, a question on skillsofts. I was under the impression that you could make a CF out of pretty much any software in the game, but apparently that's not so for skillsofts? Can you even thread skillsofts at all?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Loch @ Apr 28 2011, 01:28 AM) *
Also, a question on skillsofts. I was under the impression that you could make a CF out of pretty much any software in the game, but apparently that's not so for skillsofts? Can you even thread skillsofts at all?


You can Emulate a Skillsoft (Using Threading IIRC, and you must have a copy of the Skillsoft on hand), and then convert to a CF by paying karma equal to its rating + Any options present. You cannot thread it above that level, however. It is arguable if you can add options to it later through Threading, as it is not raising the level of the Skillsoft. wobble.gif
Loch
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Apr 28 2011, 08:55 AM) *
You can Emulate a Skillsoft (Using Threading IIRC, and you must have a copy of the Skillsoft on hand), and then convert to a CF by paying karma equal to its rating + Any options present. You cannot thread it above that level, however. It is arguable if you can add options to it later through Threading, as it is not raising the level of the Skillsoft. wobble.gif


Ah, but if I have a Tutor Sprite with the skillsoft handy, does that count as "access" to the skillsoft? So then I could just emulate from the sprite's skillsoft, Thread it up, and pay the Karma if I want to learn it?
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Loch @ Apr 28 2011, 07:49 AM) *
Ah, but if I have a Tutor Sprite with the skillsoft handy, does that count as "access" to the skillsoft? So then I could just emulate from the sprite's skillsoft, Thread it up, and pay the Karma if I want to learn it?

It is a Loophole, I guess.
squee_nabob
QUOTE (Loch @ Apr 28 2011, 10:49 AM) *
Ah, but if I have a Tutor Sprite with the skillsoft handy, does that count as "access" to the skillsoft? So then I could just emulate from the sprite's skillsoft, Thread it up, and pay the Karma if I want to learn it?


That's a GM call. Also tutor's can only get technical, knowledge, and vehicular skills (i think that's what they are called) you can't get physical, combat or social skills this way.

You need biowires to emulate skill softs. I'm a fan of swap but it's rather nebulous how it works. ask your GM to explain each of the Echos with examples because they are all vague.
Loch
Alrighty, here's the first go, a Dryad ex-labrat on the run from the Azzies:

Metatype: Dryad (45 Karma)

Attributes (450 Karma):
B A R S C I L W Ess Edg Res
3 4 4 1 9 3 4 3 6 4 6

Positive Qualities (70 Karma):
Technomancer
First Impression
Resonance Bond-5
Analytical Mind
Paragon (Flow)
Changeling (Class II SURGE; Metagenetic Improvement (Charisma), Astral Hazing)

Negative Qualities (70 Karma):
Pacifist- 5
Records on File (Aztechnology)
Wanted (Aztechnology)
Enemy (Aztechnology Researcher; Incidence 4, Connection 1)
Vendetta

Skills(150 Karma):
Cracking group 4
Electronics group 4
Influence group 2
Tasking group 2

Stream: Technoshaman
Sprites: Crack, Data, Machine, Paladin, Sleuth
Fading: Charisma+Resonance

Complex Forms (55 Karma):
Empathy Software 4
Blackout 4
Analyze 2
Exploit 2
Sniffer 2
Spoof 2

Submersion (55 Karma counting 40% discount each grade for Technomancer Network and Sprite contacts)
Echoes:
Biowire
Multiprocessing
Mesh Reality
Macro
Skinlink

Leaves me 55 Karma to spend on gear. I ended up going with more of a charisma threadmonkey build, but I still REALLY like the idea of Mesh Reality+Macro for acting in meatspace and VR at the same time. I could still try for the Black IC Grappler, I suppose, but I suspect this guy isn't really built for that. I also have next to no idea what to buy gearwise, apart from some trendy custom armor, a trendy custom hydrofoil (it IS a Caribbean League game, after all), a drone for fighting, and a ton of skillsofts.
Udoshi
Couple things spring to mind....

You're missing perception! Fix that!
Specialize Software for Threading when you get the karma(or ask about breaking skillgroups in karmagen)
you want Intimidation. Its not covered by the group, and intimidation is resisted with intimidation.(i think)
Astral hazing is a kind of controversial quality. Some Gm's hate it or won't allow it. Might be useful to have some alternative qualities in mind if it gets smacked down. Still, it is the best negative quality.
You forgot your Stealth complex form. Fix that.
Need to flesh out your Resonance Bond. Which bond? Whats the sprite like? You forgot to take the little guy as a contact; should fix that and get a decent loyalty so you can rely on keeping that bond up.
In fact, contacts appear to be missing completely. You need to pay for that technomancer network you joined to get cheap submersions; without any Loyalty rating, they have -no- reason to do you any favors. Like help you submerge again.

if you plan on driving, get Dodge - you use it for vehicle evasion, and also Infiltration, which is used to sneak vehicles past sensors. Gunnery is ace and you should have it, but it may violate your Pacifism.
jakephillips
can't you just thread a skillwire program? it is a program so can you thread, emulate and spend the karma on the skillwire you just threaded? Biowire and the abliity seem balanced as long as you have to spend the 10k a rating for active softs but if you can just thread one up and get it for 5 karma seems a little crazy.
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