What exactley are Otaku? I've seen some people talking about them, but I have no idea what the are on about. Can someone fill me in please.

They are described in the Matrix sourcebook.

Basically they are children able to deck without a cyberdeck (though a datajack is still required), and use different rules representing the wild and wacky things they can do. This ability "fades" with time, so after around, like, 15 years of age, they are no longer Otaku.

Like I said, get Matrix.

It's the next book on my list, I think.

The Fading begins on their 21st birthday.

Decking without a cyberdeck? How the hell's that work?

Very carfully. The children have all been contacted by The Deep Resonance. Each one will tell you a different answer if you ask them what it is. Best thing to do is get a copy of Matrix and read the Otaku chapter. They rock.

Translation: They're a new breed of magicians (brace yourself for flaming) who can use a datajack and ASIST converter and their own unique version of Astral Perception and Projection to directly interface with the Matrix. Their priority is called Otaku instead of Magic, and they can never be magicians (because they already are). Their spells are called Channels and/or Complex Forms, their spirits are Sprites and Daemons (which are effectively Greater Spirits), they even come in hermetic (Cyberadept) and shamanic (Technoshaman) traditions, and their magical groups are called tribes. They initiate through a process called Submersion and gain access to metamagic techniques called Echoes. The only big difference is that they don't lose Magic (MPCP) when they gain implants or suffer physiological trauma, but in return they start to lose their abilities as they mature past adulthood. And as Grey pointed out, they all have a different story about how their abilities manifest -- just like magicians.

So yeah. Basically magicians on the Matrix.

that's one conclusion that you can draw from the facts. the guys who've put the most work into the current otaku rules and information--Jason Levine and Dave Hyatt--don't like the 'otaku are magic' explanation.

I don't remember which novel is was, but I recall in one of them a mage/shaman checked out an Otaku on the astral and when he jacked in his aura got all funky. Something like it having electric looking spikes pulsing out of it or something.

And yes, I know that novels are cannon, but still, its something.

Could that be simply because the system was already setup and they just did what they did for ease of learning?

does matter. for instance, since they're not stated as being magically active, otaku don't take the +2 TN to doctoring/first aid TNs that the Awakened do.

Clockwork, i hope you're not being serious. each of the examples you've provided are Awakened because the books specifically state that they're Awakened. no book anywhere states that otaku are Awakened. the closest any book comes to saying anything like that is in YotC, where the rules give an equal likelihood for SURGEing to otaku and Awakened beings. no other rules, anywhere, say anything that could possibly be interpreted as an indication that otaku are Awakened.

Few books talk about the Otaku to begin with, much like Shapeshifters (can't SURGE into one of them, either... not that you can SURGE into a magician to begin with which, if anything, is just more proof that Otaku are magicians). They're the bastard Optional Rules children of the Shadowrun universe.

That aside, just because no one is saying Otaku are magicians doesn't mean they're not. There's far more proof and evidence that they are than that they aren't just in their abilities and talents.

what? that's ridiculous. you can't SURGE into a street sam, does that mean street sams are magicians?

no one is saying that otaku are magicians--and the people who've done the most recent work on them say that they aren't. that's evidence enough more me that, unless things change, they're not.

Quack.

'Nuff said.

My own biases, and a short history of the otaku (plus a few other things running around the Matrix, like biological knowbots) can be found here.

I don't know if otaku are magical, or if they're simply a parallel development. Like Australian marsupials.

honestly, otaku only look like magicians if you give a quick glance at the character creation process. when you start examining the details, the resemblance breaks down pretty quickly. to contrast and compare:

DIFFERENCES
-otaku have no Magic score
-otaku's abilities are not affected by changes in the astral (mana warps, etc)
-otaku cannot learn any magical skills (any other Awakened character can at least learn Sorcery for purposes of astral combat)
-assensing does not show otaku to be Awakened
-otaku cannot access their abilities without cyberware; magicians' abilities are weakened by cyberware
-otaku abilities fade with age, magician abilities do not

SIMILARITIES
-full magicians and otaku both cost 30 build points
-magicians and otaku are both able to enhance their abilities through a ritual process (Initiation, Submersion)
-Awakened beings and otaku have an equal chance at SURGEing

Well that's stupid. Whats next? Riggers that rig without VCRs? Samurais that shoot people without guns?

people talking without speaking! people hearing without listening! people writing songs that voices never share!

Just off the top of my head...

SIMILIARITIES
* Both Otaku and Magicians cast spells (Spells vs. Complex Forms/Channels).
* Both Otaku and Magicians summon spirits (Elementals, Nature Spirits vs. Sprites).
* Both can initiate (Initiating vs. Submersion).
* Both have magical societies and brotherhoods with which to improve their understanding (Groups vs. Tribes).
* Both need to learn a metamagic technique (Invoking vs. Daemon Summoning) to summon greater spirits (Greater Spirits vs. Daemons).
* Both have astral perception that mundanes can't use (Astral Perception vs. viewing the Matrix)
* Both use Karma and Time to improve their magical abilities (learning Spells vs. learning Complex Forms).
* Both have a Magic Attribute (Magic vs. MPCP).
* Both have a special pool (Spell Pool vs. Hacking Pool).
* Neither Otaku nor Adepts suffer Drain when using their powers (a few minor exceptions).
* Like Shapeshifters and other similiar Awakened characters, Otaku do not need a +2 penalty on Biotech tests.
* Both use the same Priority (Priority A Magic vs. Priority A Otaku which replaces Magic).
* Both claim another realm/dimension as the source of their powers (Astral Plane vs. Resonance).
* Both the Astral Plane and Resonance have their weird spots (mana warps vs. Dissonance Wells).
* They each use their own special skills that other characters cannot use (Sorcery/Conjuring vs. Channels).
* Both come in two major flavors (Shamans and Hermetics vs. Technoshamans and Cyberadepts).

DIFFERENCES
* Otaku don't lose abilities when they get implants vs. magicians (but not Shapeshifters or other Awakened beings) who do.
* Otaku need a datajack to plug into the Matrix.
* Otaku abilities fade with age whereas Magicians powers fade with holistic atrocities such as implants and physical damage.

And those differences can all be attributed to just their blend of magic. Technology is their kick, and it's countered by Fading. It would be stupid if their focus was the downfall of their focus.

*otaku forms and magician spells work completely differently, sharing 0 mechanical similarities
*ditto otaku sprites/agents and magician spirits/elementals
*mundanes can view the Matrix just fine, even without cyberware (trode nets)
*the Magic attribute is inherent, and the MPCP is derived; additionally, the 'initiation' used for otaku does not raise MPCP as it does Magic for magicians
*any character with a cyberdeck can get a Hacking Pool, only certain magicians (those who can cast spells) get a Spell Pool
*the +2 to Biotech TNs is debatable, in that the table states "magicians" but the text on pg 129 reads "Awakened character"

actually, shapeshifters and other Awakened beings do lose abilities when they get implants--shapeshifters can't get them at all, and other Awakened beings see Essence-dependant abilities reduced.

Fine.

* Otaku Complex Forms and Spells work completely differently, just like Spells and Adept Powers. Zero mechanical similarities.
* Mundanes need tools to view and manipulate the Matrix. Mundanes can SURGE and obtain Astral Perception, which gives them even far more power to manipulate the Astral Plane (ie, ward creation) than a Trode Net alone does on the 'Trix. Likewise, mundanes can perform martial arts, use weapons, and perform athletic abilities without magic, just like Adepts. Mundanes can also use technology to mimic some forms of magic: Flamethrowers vs. flamethrowers. Trid Phantasm vs. holograms. etc.
* The Magic Attribute is effectively derived from Essence, and the MPCP rating is effectively inherent in all Otaku.
* Not all Magicians get a Spell Pool, thus your point is self-defeating.
* Like you said, the table states "magicians." It doesn't matter, however, as Awakened characters other than magicians do not have a Magic Rating to worry about.

And sorry, according to the FAQs, Shapeshifters can get certain implants under special circumstances. And a SURGEd Changeling with Dual-Nature can be chock-full of implants without losing that ability.

*complex forms also share 0 mechanical similarities with any known adept powers; regardless, adepts are already, in the rules, defined as being Awakened
*otaku also need tools to view and manipulate the Matrix, even it it's just a 'trode net
*the magic attribute is affected by essence, but it's also affected by initiation; MPCP is derived directly from other stats, and Submersion does not directly change it except by picking certain echoes. if the Magic attribute were derived from Essence, then shapeshifters would have a starting Magic of 8.
*it was your point to begin with; and the fact that any character can have a Hacking Pool, but only certain Awakened characters can have a Spell Pool is a point for me, in that it proves that Hacking Pool is not Awakened-only
*Awakened characters other than magicians have Essence, which is the basis of many of their powers; reducing Essence reduces their powers, just like magicians
*the table-versus-text question should probably be errata'd one way other the other; until it is, neither of us get the point

being dual-natured isn't an Essence-dependent ability. if a character/creature doesn't have any Essence-dependent powers, then obviously reducing its Essence isn't going to bother it all that much. this has little bearing on the question of whether otaku are Awakened.

regardless, the most salient point is that otaku do not assense as being Awakened. that's one of the most basic pieces of information that assensing provides; the fact that otaku show as being mundane clearly indicates that they are, in fact, mundane. you really need to show some kind of refute to this argument, for your own arguments to have any merit. to use your analogy, otaku may quack like a duck, but they certainly don't waddle like a duck, and they don't have an aura that responds to their abilities like a duck; ergo, they're not a duck.

OTAKU HAVE NO MAGIC ATTRIBUTE. PERIOD.

. <-- period

This means, by all Shadowrun definitions they are 100% mundane.

and...

Who says they have to be twelve? As long as you're under 21 you're okay. If you can go off and join the military at eighteen, you're old enough to go and become a criminal for hire I say.

Lime; your thoughts intrigue me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter .
And by the way, this has the makings of the most civil flame war ever, thus I ask that no matter how stupid and inane the other guys statement we all keep it that way.
OK, lecture over. I think the main difference in opinon(other than not thinking the same) is that Lime is argueing from a more in game perspective and MFB and BB are argueing form a out of game rules standpoint.
My two Nuyen.

eh, sorta. my strongest point is that otaku don't assense as being Awakened, which is in-game.

flameage gets boring (i think i've used or seen every possible combination of insulting words in the English language, in my time on Dumpshock), and being banned is annoying; i make at least a token effort to avoid both, nowadays.

i recognize the idea that otaku are magical is a valid viewpoint--i just happen to think it's mistaken. i'm also vehemently opposed to magical otaku; it's cooler, to me, to have a psuedo-neurological explanation, rather than just waving a wand and saying "it's magic!"