So I was reading the Control Actions spell and I wanted to clarify how it works.
1. When a target is controlled, it takes a simple action to make them do something...and their Willpower is a negative modifier on any actions they take.
2. Since a character gets 2 simple actions a turn, does that mean that the spell caster can't take any complex actions while they're controlling someone?
3. Does the target still get their regular actions on their turn? Does that give them two actions a turn, or do they lose their regular action?
4. Do you use the caster or the target's skills? Can you make a target do something they don't know how to do?
5. What kind of suicidal things can you make a target do? Can you make them walk off a ledge or shoot themselves in the head?
Is that spell as overpowered as I think it is or am I just reading it wrong?
Full Version: Control Actions...how does it work?
Eh, "Control Actions" got nothing on "Control Thoughts" or "Influence" and depending on situation even "Control Emotions".
So yeah:
1: Yupp
2: Well, tricky... While you can't make a complex action when you command someone, the question is: Do they mean you control an action of his (as in one IP, or can you build more complex commands for a longer time? Interesting... i am not sure.
3: I guess unless commanded and having to "tasks" to perform they can do whatever they want. When a command comes in, their NEXT action at least will belong to the mage.
4: Target skills - willpower. Also sure... but he will be VERY poor at most things and exceptionally bad at things he doesn't know how. (Since Attribute-1-willpower normaly isn't that much anymore.
5: Yepp, you have a direct line to his body. You can have them make everything you want. They WILL shoot themselves or run into a fire at will.
So yeah:
1: Yupp
2: Well, tricky... While you can't make a complex action when you command someone, the question is: Do they mean you control an action of his (as in one IP, or can you build more complex commands for a longer time? Interesting... i am not sure.
3: I guess unless commanded and having to "tasks" to perform they can do whatever they want. When a command comes in, their NEXT action at least will belong to the mage.
4: Target skills - willpower. Also sure... but he will be VERY poor at most things and exceptionally bad at things he doesn't know how. (Since Attribute-1-willpower normaly isn't that much anymore.
5: Yepp, you have a direct line to his body. You can have them make everything you want. They WILL shoot themselves or run into a fire at will.
I'm just re-reading Control Thoughts.
Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
Could you run a target into a burning building just as easily with Control Thoughts as with Control Actions?
Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
Could you run a target into a burning building just as easily with Control Thoughts as with Control Actions?
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 25 2011, 08:30 PM) 
I'm just re-reading Control Thoughts.
Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
The same reason why anyone learns/casts regular Invisibility, less drain. This spell though is a poor alternative as well. Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 25 2011, 08:30 PM)
Could you run a target into a burning building just as easily with Control Thoughts as with Control Actions?
Yes, only Influence allows extra resistance tests for outlandish orders, and then only with outside help.
QUOTE (yesferatu @ May 25 2011, 10:30 AM)
I'm just re-reading Control Thoughts.
Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
Could you run a target into a burning building just as easily with Control Thoughts as with Control Actions?
Why would you ever cast Control Actions when Control Thoughts does the same thing with no negative modifiers?
Could you run a target into a burning building just as easily with Control Thoughts as with Control Actions?
Dakka is mostly right - however, the way my team's played it, Control Thoughts sort of lapses the person's mind into a stasis while they're given orders, while Control Actions... well, doesn't. Thus, you can scare and horrify people by forcing their body to do things against their will with Control Actions, and thus it makes a very good method of intimidation - whereas Control Thoughts, not so much. Although I guess if you want to scare people, you probably should just 'Control Emotions' on them and be DONE WITH IT.
The game is better without any of these spells honestly. PC's love to use them but hate having them used on them and their all poorly thought out.
I put this two bits in on every thread on this topic for that I apologize but I firmly believe it.
I put this two bits in on every thread on this topic for that I apologize but I firmly believe it.
Well...it's not like charm spells are a new thing.
It's a reason for min/maxers to spend some karma on Willpower. or Edge.
Is it really any worse than turning somebody into goo?
I'd probably use it for making a guard open a door or disarming somebody.
*That having been said, there should probably be some additional resist for suicidal actions.
Turning a doorknob and shooting yourself in the head should probably be treated differently.
It's a reason for min/maxers to spend some karma on Willpower. or Edge.
Is it really any worse than turning somebody into goo?
I'd probably use it for making a guard open a door or disarming somebody.
*That having been said, there should probably be some additional resist for suicidal actions.
Turning a doorknob and shooting yourself in the head should probably be treated differently.
My favorite mind control is Mob Mood ^_^
QUOTE
Control Action and Mob Control are both definitively worthless, because you need to spend a complex action to cast it and then a simple action to command them, and until you command them, they can act on their own. And their action will almost certainly be shooting you. Even without that, it's in effect a 2-action spell.
Mob Mind might or might not be useful, because it's unclear how it works. Namely - can people who have not yet been commanded act normally? If yes, it blows. If no, it is a pretty decent spell because you cast it and anyone who is affected stands around drooling, and you can then command them to do stuff.
Mob Mind might or might not be useful, because it's unclear how it works. Namely - can people who have not yet been commanded act normally? If yes, it blows. If no, it is a pretty decent spell because you cast it and anyone who is affected stands around drooling, and you can then command them to do stuff.
QUOTE
The control spells take two actions to take effect and have a duration measured in seconds. They are all basically worthless for the things you want to do with mind control: get an alibi, coerce someone into having sex with you, or gain pawns like in Syndicate. But they do last long enough for someone to OK a transaction, open a door, input a password, or in whatever other way bypass futuristic electronics on your behalf.
Control Emotions is thus completely worthless, because it doesn't last long enough for any emotional effects to be noticeable. Control Actions is mostly worthless, because all it will let you do is get someone to put their hand on a scanner or drive a car off a cliff or something. Control Thoughts is extremely situational, and is of primary utility in emptying out peoples' bank accounts. But that use is so amazing that your MC will probably have to nerf it unless you want to turn the entire game into "money laundering" as you try to second guess the popos while you empty out the bank account of every single person who crosses you and rapidly convert the money into a less traceable form at who cares what kind of loss rate and then turn around and do it again.
Control Emotions is thus completely worthless, because it doesn't last long enough for any emotional effects to be noticeable. Control Actions is mostly worthless, because all it will let you do is get someone to put their hand on a scanner or drive a car off a cliff or something. Control Thoughts is extremely situational, and is of primary utility in emptying out peoples' bank accounts. But that use is so amazing that your MC will probably have to nerf it unless you want to turn the entire game into "money laundering" as you try to second guess the popos while you empty out the bank account of every single person who crosses you and rapidly convert the money into a less traceable form at who cares what kind of loss rate and then turn around and do it again.
Cookies if you recognize them.
Mob Mood is great for flash mobs and guards too depressed to shoot at you.
QUOTE (Tyro @ May 26 2011, 03:06 PM)
Mob Mood is great for flash mobs and guards too depressed to shoot at you.
Orgy has funnier effects.
Does anyone else think there's too many spells that are the same "-X penalty unless you do Y" mechanic?
QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 26 2011, 12:18 PM)
Does anyone else think there's too many spells that are the same "-X penalty unless you do Y" mechanic?
They do it in different ways. I prefer hot potato, myself. It's like predicament bondage - "take a penalty or disarm"
QUOTE (James McMurray @ May 26 2011, 01:18 PM)
Does anyone else think there's too many spells that are the same "-X penalty unless you do Y" mechanic?
Quite possibly yes, when the next edition rolls around I'd really like to see a top to see a comprehensive rework of the grimore. Make spells more generic and thereby reduce the numbers, easier to balance, easier to keep track of.
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 26 2011, 10:04 PM)
Quite possibly yes, when the next edition rolls around I'd really like to see a top to see a comprehensive rework of the grimore. Make spells more generic and thereby reduce the numbers, easier to balance, easier to keep track of.
Sounds good. Mass Agony should be at least as powerful as Orgy, not the joke it is right now.
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ May 26 2011, 01:18 PM)
Sounds good. Mass Agony should be at least as powerful as Orgy, not the joke it is right now.
Yeah, I really don't know what they were thinking
QUOTE (Dez384 @ May 26 2011, 03:18 PM)
Orgy has funnier effects.
Orgy can be cast in a crowded room full of people and not make any of them want to kill you(usually).
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