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shon
My player doesn't have an implanted commlink. If he wants to slot a chip (BTL or knowsoft) does he need to get a datajack? And he gets a datajack, can he slot for example two knowsofts at once? Or for example a mood BTL and a knowsoft at once? Or is it only one chip at a time and no way around it?

And if he doesn't want implants, can he just use a sim module and trodes? For BTL (with modified sim module of course)? Or for knowsofts?

And as a side question: if you have a smartlinked weapon, what do you need to interface with it? Can you use the datajack? Or trodes? I guess you can send neural impulses straight to the brain and omit the eye, right? Or are cybereyes necessary for this too? I understand you can simply use goggles or glasses with imaging and communicate via wireless, but I guess one would prefer to implant the solution...

I know this is basic stuff but I'm slightly confused by the book somehow...

Thanks for your help
Crazy Ivan
To the extent of my understanding, to use a chip, you need some kind of neural interface. While the descriptions are vague, here's the skinny of which I've gathered qualify;

Datajack- Link into your commlink and voila! Easy enough.
Implanted commlink- Goes without saying.
Simrig/Trodes- I'm not fully certain on how these work in game, but from what I understand, they remind me of the little patches put on your head to monitor brain waves and such, only they send shortwave signals to simulate the given emotions/feelings from the commlink/chip.

As for how many chips can it hold, I think that is a GM decision. How many USB ports does a standard computer have? That's what I compare chip slots to. If you wanted an actual ruling, I'd say half the commlinks system, round down?

As for smartlinks and smartguns, you need a smart weapon (obviously) and some form of visual enhancement device with the smartlink installed. Goggles, sunglasses, contact lenses, etc. etc, cybereyes with the smartlink installation option, or just pay the .1 essence and get the smartlink installed (generally the safest option, since cybereyes can be hacked and going blind at the whim of a hacker sucks).
Yerameyahu
All electronics basically support chips in SR4, and there's no real reason to keep track of how many. Not all chips are 'neural', either (knowsofts aren't). Just BTLs, simsense 'movies', and skillsofts. Anything that's not simsense doesn't require a DNI.

Incidentally, physical chip BTLs can come with their own dedicate simsense circuits—no DNI required.

In addition, most 'chips' are actually just digital files on your commlink/other device in SR4, including BTLs.

Contacts being so cheap anyway, and trodes working for *all* other AR… I'd be fine letting someone add the smartlink mod to trodes. It's that, or just make them buy the contacts. smile.gif
Crazy Ivan
Ah. Gotcha.
KCKitsune
QUOTE (Crazy Ivan @ May 25 2011, 03:29 PM) *
To the extent of my understanding, to use a chip, you need some kind of neural interface. While the descriptions are vague, here's the skinny of which I've gathered qualify;

Datajack- Link into your commlink and voila! Easy enough.

You don't need a commlink because an implanted datajack has the DNI needed to use the knowsoft

QUOTE (Crazy Ivan @ May 25 2011, 03:29 PM) *
As for smartlinks and smartguns, you need a smart weapon (obviously) and some form of visual enhancement device with the smartlink installed. Goggles, sunglasses, contact lenses, etc. etc, cybereyes with the smartlink installation option, or just pay the .1 essence and get the smartlink installed (generally the safest option, since cybereyes can be hacked and going blind at the whim of a hacker sucks).

That's a good option, but doesn't work for mages because they can't use contacts. I would say that if you have cyber cluster them together and run IC on that clustered node (this only really works for alpha or better 'ware).

The other option to make sure that you CAN'T be hacked is to remove the wireless hardware from your cyberware. If the wireless chip set is not there then you can't be hacked.

@Yerameyahu: Knowsofts are neural because pg 330 of SR4A says the following:
QUOTE
Knowsoft: Knowsofts replicate Knowledge skills, actively overwriting the user’s knowledge with their own data. Knowsofts must be accessed with a direct neural link (either a sim module or datajack).
Mäx
QUOTE (Crazy Ivan @ May 25 2011, 11:29 PM) *
(generally the safest option, since cybereyes can be hacked and going blind at the whim of a hacker sucks).

As smartlink requires imagelink(comes free with the cyber eyes, but costs an other 0,1 essence for meat eyes) to work, your not much saver with the meat eye mods and i personally prefer going blind at the whim of a hacker to an endless stream of Troll on Dwarf gay porn wink.gif
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ May 25 2011, 11:51 PM) *
The other option to make sure that you CAN'T be hacked is to remove the wireless hardware from your cyberware. If the wireless chip set is not there then you can't be hacked.

If the ware is connected to your PAN(as it must be if you want to use smartlink) then you can be hacked.
LurkerOutThere
*sigh* I'm so tired of this argument. If your using any kind of wireless enabled visual modification it can be hacked by a hacker if your an idiot and not taking precautions. With goggles and glasses if this happens you rip them off your head with cybereyes you use a free action and cycle/reboot the device and remove it from your pan, you still maintain your DNI link. If this happens to your contacts your pretty much fragged, ever tried to take contacts out in a quick manner in a stressfull situation, now imagine those contacts are worth a few grand. It would make no sense for cybereyes to just out there and hanging on wireless.. You can link them to your pan, and in many cases you will want to in order to share info with your team or save what your seeing for later review or supply feeds to your tacnet or mefeed but every piece of cyberware being full on wireless accessible is just stupid.

I do think something terribly wrong has been done with this game if people are actually afraid to get ware because of hacking and if ware is not significantly better then it's non ware counterpart, more signs of magicrun. I'm looking at you trodes.
Thanee
QUOTE (Mäx @ May 25 2011, 10:55 PM) *
If the ware is connected to your PAN(as it must be if you want to use smartlink) then you can be hacked.


Only if the hacker happens to be able to make physical contact. Go Skinlink! biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee
DireRadiant
Brain <--DNI--> Device

DNI = Trodes, All Implanted Cyber
redwulf25
QUOTE (KCKitsune @ May 25 2011, 03:51 PM) *
That's a good option, but doesn't work for mages because they can't use contacts.


Aside from an absurd rule that mages can't target spells with vision enhancements that aren't either natural or cybernetic (that includes glasses and goggles as well as contacts) there is nothing preventing mages from using contacts.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Thanee @ May 25 2011, 05:09 PM) *
Only if the hacker happens to be able to make physical contact. Go Skinlink! biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee


And what are you skinlinking to? Skinlink doesn't mean your devices are unhackable just that they have to get to something else that it's skinlinked to, like your comlink.
redwulf25
QUOTE (Thanee @ May 25 2011, 05:09 PM) *
Only if the hacker happens to be able to make physical contact. Go Skinlink! biggrin.gif

Bye
Thanee


Just what I was going to say. If they're close enough to hack your skin link you're fucked anyway, they can just as easily shove an drone rigged with explosives down your pants and run.
redwulf25
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 25 2011, 05:37 PM) *
And what are you skinlinking to? Skinlink doesn't mean your devices are unhackable just that they have to get to something else that it's skinlinked to, like your comlink.


Why would you need to skin link it to anything more than your skin linked gun?
LurkerOutThere
In order to gain access to a non implanted or directly wired device you need a PAN. In order to get a pan you need a comlink or other means to interact with a device. I would allow a character to reach their gear with skinlinked datajacked personally but somewhere on your body there's presumably something that can reach out and touch that device.
Yerameyahu
Thanks KCKitsune, I definitely mis-spoke there. smile.gif I was thinking of datasofts.
Bobby
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 26 2011, 12:13 AM) *
In order to gain access to a non implanted or directly wired device you need a PAN. In order to get a pan you need a comlink or other means to interact with a device.


So you have skinlinked contacts, skinlinked gun, and a skinlinked com that's set to skinlink only while you're in combat / on a run / feeling paranoid.

Maybe you have a second com and an earpiece in a second PAN so you're not cut off from the world for messages from team mates.

If, that is, you or your hacker/TM buddy is knowledgeable enough, and you're paranoid enough.
Yerameyahu
I'd have to see an argument that you can't connect a smartgun directly to the smartlink (contacts, whatever), no commlink. Either way, though, it's as Bobby mentioned: you can always avoid open wireless on your person.
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (Bobby @ May 26 2011, 07:21 AM) *
So you have skinlinked contacts, skinlinked gun, and a skinlinked com that's set to skinlink only while you're in combat / on a run / feeling paranoid.


That is the proper way to go about it to make smartlink weapons and gear functionally hack proof, i don't much care for it but then again I don't much care for Smartlink contacts and feel they should have a downside, at the very least I feel they should only give a 1 die bonus instead fo the full 2 and not give the free action to eject clip/change mode etc. That is my opinion only based on the trend of making cyber impotent nothing more. But i'm also the sort of jerk that tells players their skin link stops working properly after their soaking wet* so I might be a poor example.

*Admittedly there is no basis for this in the rules but I've found it a good fix. If you want truely unhackable reliable gear it needs to be wired into your body and airgapped to the outside world.
Yerameyahu
It continues to be odd that input functions (mentally changing modes, etc.) are indeed handled by output systems (image link). smile.gif You can certainly require a DNI for that.
Udoshi
QUOTE (LurkerOutThere @ May 26 2011, 06:42 AM) *
That is the proper way to go about it to make smartlink weapons and gear functionally hack proof, i don't much care for it but then again I don't much care for Smartlink contacts and feel they should have a downside, at the very least I feel they should only give a 1 die bonus instead fo the full 2 and not give the free action to eject clip/change mode etc. That is my opinion only based on the trend of making cyber impotent nothing more. But i'm also the sort of jerk that tells players their skin link stops working properly after their soaking wet* so I might be a poor example.


Minor nitpick: Smartlink contacts don't give that capability.

You need DNI to effectively use the Changed Linked Device Mode trick(unwired has a tidbit about it, in the manual vs dni section). Contacts don't give you that.

Skinlinked trodes or a datajack, do, however.
Yerameyahu
Ah, so they finally fixed that in Unwired. Cuz it's not in SR4A. smile.gif
Udoshi
Yeah, in the Interface section. Manually/vocally controlling a device is a simple action.
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