I'm working on a new player race for SR(actually I had the idea years ago, but just now resurrected it). Here is some of the basic flavor info, stats will either be posted up later tonight or tomarrow. Please leave any feedback.

Androids

“Lately there’s been some strange newcomers to the shadows. I know most of you think this is a hoax, but I assure you these things are real, I’ve personally meet three of them, and I’m not the only one. Following is a briefing I picked up last time I was in a Lone Star system, and so far it’s one of the most complete accounts of these things I’ve seen”
-Phreak

--July 13th, 207--
Atten: Lone Star Officers
Sub: A new threat

Every officer sooner or later encounters a collar cybered to the gilles, who puts up a hell of a fight, and more than one of you have encountered cyborgs, or even “cyber-zombies” during your beats. But now there is a new type of man-machine hybrid out there, and it’s already proved to be taxing on our resources.

The first reports of these “Androids” starting coming in 8 years ago, and were limited to a few cases in Germany that were quickly covered up by authorities. Since then the number of reports of android activity have increased at least double every year, and by now there have been reports on every populated continent.

“Technically the term ‘Android’ is the male term. Females are more appropriately called ‘Geneoids’ “
-Phreak

“Do these things even have gender?”
-Hitokiri

“I can tell you from personal experience they do”
-Phreak

“…”
-Hitokiri

Unlike cyborgs and cyber-zombies, which were humans who have become more machine than man, androids are in fact machines made to resemble man.

Androids strongly resemble humans, to the point where it is near impossible to identify them via physical observation. They are created primarily out of organic components, and appear to have the same basic physical needs as humans(the need to eat, breath, sleep, ect). In fact, the resemblance is so uncanny that the only sure fire ways to tell an androids from a human is autopsy, astral observation, or their characteristic pitch black eyes. Make no mistake though, no matter how much they resemble humans, they are not humans, and in all probability not even alive.

“While true to a point, those are not as sure-fire as advertised. Many Androids gets cybereyes to closer resemble humans, and they do have an aura, albeit a weak one, which means they are most certainly alive.”
-Blackjack

If you read earlier reports, you may have heard that all androids share similar physical features, which unfortunately is no-longer true. While the original androids all had a similar set of Germanic features, more modern androids can appear to be of any race or ethnicity, often mimicking the racial features of where they first woke up.

“Waking up” Is a term used by androids to describe when they first become active. According to them, they “awaken” in a random location with no knowledge of who they are or any past, but already otherwise possessing other skills, knowledge, and language skill. Thus far, none of our interrogations has gotten any androids to admit any knowledge of their past or creators, this among other traits, has made it tough to track down the source of these androids.

“An unpublished fact is that android DNA is nearly untraceable, all android DNA, regardless of the donor is identical, meaning there is no way to link evidence of crimes to androids. Same also applies to finger prints. This also, of course, causes problems when an android tries to get a SIN, try explaining those biometrics”
-Phreak

“It’s more than a little scary, many androids are very skilled is elicit pursuits, especially hacking, which leads a large number of them to the shadows. Makes you wonder who’s building their little shadowrunner army”
-Malus

“My votes on S&K, it would have taken both tech and magic to make these, and they first appeared in Germany.”
-Phreak

“I hope not, these are living, thinking, feeling things. They deserve to be treated like people, not be used as pawns in some Great Dragon’s plot”

As dangerous SINless with no official legal standings, it is our obligation to capture Androids when indentified. Androids has shown greater than average human strength and endurance, and are almost universally intelligent. They also have shown compatibility with both cyber and bioware designed for human use further increasing their danger level. Most agents who have encountered an android described them as “disconnected” or “akward”, which may help in identifying these potential foes.

Attached you will find a document detailing known active androids, and a list of procedures for what to do if you suspect your suspect is an android.

---End Document---

From the title alone I thought of an A.I. with the Piloting Origin quality taking up residence in a Renraku Manservant-3. Swap out for a Mitsuhama Otomo or Akiyama if the GM doesn't care about the Availability rating of those drone bodies.

If they have auras, isn't it magitech? The holy grail SR tech is struggling to get for a long time now?

These won't be drones, they are living beings, with an (low) essence score and everything. They're just unnatural.



I deliberately never decided exact ally where they came from, but yes they have auras and almost certainly required both nano tech and magic to create.

Sounds very interesting to roleplay, to say the least. Would very much like to see what you come up with for stats.

Questions: You said they can be any race or ethnicity, but what about metatype? Obviously an android who woke up in, say, the OrK Underground would be at a disadvantage looking human. Will there, in this case, be different stats for metatype variant androids? I mean, a human sized android with a strength of five or six is good, but a troll sized android with the same stat is, well...rather handicapped. Maybe having the metatypes represent different intended functions for the androids in the military production phase? Orkdroids and Trolldroids are combat models, being larger, sturdier and stronger than the others. Elfdroids are double-jointed stealth infiltrationists. Dwarfdroids are engineers and medics, with low profile, rugged frames. Humandroids are the all-purpose, adaptable to most roles, but specialized for none. Since the androids encountered on the streets are test models, they are not all preprogrammed congruent to their intended function. Some Elfdroids might be slanted towards heavy combat, or technical support. You may find a Trolldroid preloaded with a communications and behavior suite, allowing for advanced verbal interactions with humans to a such a level that it's androidness is undetectable.

The basic time-line I have works like this.

*: Androids appear in Germany, with similar features, androids virtually unknown(past)
*: Androids start appearing around the world with more varied features, androids are known by some, but not to public(where I start with the idea)
*: Androids start appearing of other metatypes, androids rumored among public(future)
*: Androids starts appearing of non-metahumans, public starting to get worried, governments start to acknowledge
*: Either a)insidious plot involving androids takes place, or b)public largely aware of androids starts another witchhunt(ala awakened, metahumans, technos), leadining to slow but eventual acceptance

Each step could have anywhere between a year and a decade between it. I like the second step, as an androids advantages are stronger when not many people know about them, but metatype androids could exist. Possibly stat them out later.

Anyway, here are the basic stats, more information will come tomorrow when I'm not so tired.

Cost: 60BP(Not 100% sure yet)

Attributes
Bod: 3/8(12)
Agi: 1/6(9)
Rea: 1/6(9)
Str: 2/7(10)
Cha: 1/5(7)
Int: 1/5(7)
Log: 2/7(10)
Wil: 1/6(9)

Edg: 1/5(7)

*:+2 To resist pathogens/toxins

*:Weigh approx 150% of human of same height/weight

*:Needs to eat, sleep, and breath as human

*: Has 0.01 Essence, can never be higher

*: May not take any quality that grants a magic or resonance score.

*: Have 8 points of capacity that may be used to install ’ware. Loses capacity in place of essence.

*: Starts with implanted simrig and datajack with at no cost(nuyen, essence, or capacity)

*: Starts with rating 1 distinctive style for pitch black eyes. Loses quality if eyes are replaced.

*: Starts with low-light vision, loses if eyes are replaced.

*: All biometric data(DNA, fingerprint, optics) identical to other androids.

*: Cannot legally obtain a SIN, not governments/corps yet acknowledge existence, much less status as sentient race.

*: Start with rating 1 amnesia quality, no does not grant extra points, nor does it count twords neg quality cap.

Also, important bit I forgot to put in the flavor above. I meant to have a shadow talker say something along these lines.

"While their artificial nature gives androids some physical advantages, they are shockingly similar to humans in design and function. Whoever made them obviously cared more about replicating the human body than perfecting it, so not only do their physical abilities not far outpace a normal humans, but they suffer from many of the disadvantages of humans as well. That said, their bodies are surprisingly accepting of 'ware and can install a large amount of it without the negative effects humans normally suffer"

-Phreak

Have fun tossing established fluff aside.

I'd say 60BP is cheepish for that... I'd say more like 100BP, minding that there's no way for a metahuman to get more than 6 Essence at any cost...

? Not sure how this ruins establish fluff too much. Secret high tech projects are all over the place. Magic-tech is just one possible answer, they could also be a new cloning experiment, minewiped humans implanted into tech bodies, or maybe the shedim have possessed a scientist who is creating special bodies for them.

As for the BP cost, I agree it's a little cheap for how much power they can get, but they also are not really stronger than an ork or dwarf without that ability, and you still have to buy the 'ware. I'd like to see more opinions before I change it.

Honestly, I'm not sure why I'd play an andriod. If I want to play an artificial creature, there's AIs. If I want to play someone at the edge of human, there's cyborgs and a lot of street sam builds. I feel like the android is trying to fill a space between these two archetypes that isn't really there. I'm struggling to think of a character idea you'd use an android for where you couldn't use either an AI or a cyborg.

Statswise I'm a little underwhelmed. The bonuses seem moderate (although start mixing in metatypes and they'd probably get more impressive). I'd also consider dropping the CHA max to 4, depending on how "inhuman" you want them to be. As for most of the other bonuses, they seem kinda light. I don't see any real defining features here besides the essence issue.

Ok, on the essence issue: I just don't get it. It's only a bonus for those archetypes that are gonna use more than 6 essence, which is basically Sams (maybe the occasional infiltrator). It seems very limited. Also, Sams already get most of their power out of chargen and have problems later on. This just seems to increase that. You can pack even more cheap ware in at chargen but once you fill the max (and they will) then you're still chasing the nuyen/beta dragon.

Basically, fluffwise, I don't get the point and crunchwise they seem very limited in terms of their options. I love the Blade Runner theme but I just don't see anything more here than that.

Finally, why do they have essence. It's going to piss off the fluff-boys and it's confusing. Why not just ditch the essence altogether?

Because at that point, if it's organic then it's dead, if it's non-organic it's a drone.

As to the OP, it's an interesting concept but...it's a little shaky.

It doesn't seem like it fits in the Sixth World. This sounds somewhat like Replicants from Blade Runner, but in that case, why not just play an AI and design a more biologically-based drone or work out a human biodrone that an AI could inhabit? I like the idea of an Android, but I think it could be better to work with the existing set-up rather than try to shoehorn something into the frame that doesn't quite fit.

If you're really determined to make it work, you also need to consider the effects of EMP or electrical damage against an Android and how much of a downer they would be. Also you'd have to come up with rules for things like mind control and mind reading spells, DNA sampling, and thermal imaging. You'd also have to write a ton of flavor text as to why these things keep showing up (or at least some relatively sound theories) and why they haven't all been rounded up and shot as well as their legal status.

That is honking impossible...

Yeah, this is a huge change for SR, and you're opening a giant can of worms.

HOWEVER ...
For human sized, I'd cap all their attributes at a little above AVERAGE (4 or 5 in SR3). They can double that by increasing to troll size (and doubling again by increasing to vehicle size and so on). Androids require a lot of space for everything (4 levels of cybernetic muscles, a honking huge CPU, heat dispersion, structural reinforcement, power generation and so on). Additionally, Charisma suffers a -3 penalty (due to the android's being non-human), +2 to Willpower (they stick to their programming, so aren't easily seduced). You guys have that intuition attribute, which would also be -3 (they don't have the experience, and it can't be programmed in).

They have an effective maximum essence of 14, however they've already 'spent' five. This is more for mechanical balance than anything. The remaining 9 points track size limitations. They add +4 essence for every size increase (and -4 for every size decrease). About 50% of the cyberware doesn't work for them (it's made for interfacing with biologicals). Some of those can be modified, but require doubling the nuyen cost (to purchase custom-fit cyber). If he's getting it from a producer that mass-produces that stuff, the additional nuyen penalty is waived. Androids cannot have bioware.

They cannot have magic. (There's probably an android type of magic, but it's not likely to have been discovered yet.) They have a bunch of disadvantages from cyberzombies (like that bad magic aura). They are contrary to the current life paradigm, and so in conflict. They can be targeted by magic normally (excepting all those CZ/essence penalties).

Legally, they cannot get citizenship. They are considered property. To carry a weapon, they must meet all legal requirements of vehicles.

Androids do not heal normally. They must be repaired, following the cost description for vehicles. Androids do suffer stun damage, which also must be repaired (probably at a discount, I'd have to think about it). The equipment required for repairs is also distinctive. This flaw cannot be removed.

I can agree with all of your chosen traits except the toxins things. They are immune. They also don't need to eat or breath, although mimic them. They do require regular downtime for maintenance, normally about 4-6 hours. Every week they do not get at least 6 hours of 'sleep' they suffer a penalty to intelligence and quickness.

They run on expensive batteries. This is the largest chunk of their lifestyle costs (at minimum: moderate). Two batteries the size of car batteries will run them for 6 hours. They can be recharged. These can be replaced with nuclear batteries, which cannot be recharged. These batteries are radioactive. They operate normally for 10 hours, then the android loses one to all attributes for every turn hours of continued running. They require a High lifestyle for bi-weekly battery replacements, luxury for daily replacements. As size increases, the number of batteries doubles (and costs), and the time between swaps goes down by 20%.

This would make characters who aren't bad, but they are fragile and expensive (like lasers!) However, they make for good street sams (just not bullet sponges), especially speed demons and mage killers. They're also way more awesome as villains with unlimited budgets.

I am thinking Blade Runner and Synths. Same idea but come at it from the gene or bioware side of things. If something is designed from the ground up as a living drone you would have the low essence score you are talking about. After all bioware allows you to replace almost every single part of the human body. What is to stop a corporation building an entire "unit" and equiping it with a bioware brain? Not an android true but as it would be constructed out of bioware parts it would be extremly hard to identify it as other than a human that has extensive bioware.

Design it as a Wimp with a Stirrup Interface plus whatever Bioware you want and you have a viable living drone. So to speak...
The Brain is overridden by whatever intelligence you want to use, be it AI, Pilot or Hacker.

Or you just have it with programmed intelligence (Using the fun rules for PAB's and Personafixing, Stirrup Interface no longer needed), like the Synths in Bladerunner

Actually, to think of it, we've created life from basic elements in RL already, even if it's single-cell life. No reason for SR scientists not to be capable of the same feat on larger scale, even without magic.
Still, I can't frankly say I like the idea as it is...

Thats news to me.

Guess we've got different thoughts on what defines an android, instead of a cybernetic organism.

http://science.slashdot.org/story/11/05/26...Brain-In-a-Dish

Blade Runner androids are artificial 100% biologicals, right? EP Synths are 100% robots. The former wouldn't get an Essence bonus by my lights, but maybe a 'free' (paid with race cost) Genetic Heritage quality. The latter are already as possible in SR4 as they should be.

If you think people were worried about the Renraku Manservant-3 being too 'humanlike', they will flip their shit over a race of synths: like cyborgs, except AIs. Oy.

Heck, we are even capable of Cloning...

That is not creating life.

That is taking existing living cells and culturing them.

So far, the absolute BEST we have been able to do with actually creating life is creating organic compounds from raw elements. The building blocks for making cells. Actually assembling whole cells and infusing them with life is still way beyond current science.

In any case, the reason folks are saying "this isn't Shadowrun" is that Shadowrun has long established that magic and science just don't mix. The only major exceptions so far have been a) a handful of things like FAB which just exploit existing dual-natured lifeforms, or b) cyberzombies, which all end up miserable, horridly warp the manasphere around them, and die quickly.

Heck, I even play a character who thinks she's bringing machines to life with magic, but really she's just summoning spirits.



-k

What happens when an Android becomes Infected? A Frankenstein?
Infected with HMHVV II? A Borg!

Also, what is the extent to which a skilled hacker can control the actions of such a creature? Control the thoughts of such a creature?

I like the idea, but have so many off shoots to think of.

what's so novel about an AI inhabiting a (bio)drone?

Nah, I meant this one, but that's still a step away from creating life from the ground up, now that I reread it.

OP said they are machines made to resemble man, but then goes on to say they're indistinguishable from man except by autopsy (and black eyes - you think they'd fix that), made of biological components. SO yeah, I take back my original post. These aren't androids, nor robots or machines. They're biodrones or biomorphs.

I'd say their only bonus would be a benefit to genetech prices, and maybe some additional points at chargen to represent the extra time SOMEONE put into building them all nice and pretty.

Drawbacks:
Amnesia
Penalty to charisma and social skills
Must be implanted with an AI (so require whatever equipment you need for that)
Cannot use magic (they're an AI)
Hunted flaw (someone made them and probably want their toy back)
Cannot start with a SIN
Dark secret (not a metahuman!)

Hm hm... Well i am sure many corporations are building something like that in SR. I like the idea. overall

But with the stats and such i would go a slightly different way:

Bio-roids:
These androids are build by using organic material. They do originate in the fusion of cultured and massively altered metahuman material. It is noteworthy that they are NOT just artificialy grown lifeforms with a changed DNA-code, but are assembled in full grown stage from different "modules".

They are adaptating to any and all cyber-, bio- and nanite- systems, but since there different systems use different sets of genetic material and regeneration-techniques can not take any genetek (and are imune to genetic diseases and). They are "clearly" living, but with a much lower force than a usual, natural being.

Stats:
Attributes
Bod: 3/8 (12)
Agi: 3/8 (12)
Rea: 3/8 (12)
Str: 3/8 (12)
Cha: 1/4 (6)
Int: 1/4 (6)
Log: 1/6 (9)
Wil: 1/5 (

Edg: 1/4 (6)
Essence: 3.0 points at "birth"
- All Cyberware and Bioware implanted will count as deltaware for essence-calculations (but not for detectibility and damage resistance, etc)
- A Bio-Roid can not take any metagenetic or SURGE backgrounds.
- +2 Dice pool modifier against all pathogens/toxins and illnesses
- +4 Dice pool modifier to healing tests
- All Bio-Roids start with Uneducated and Uncouth flaws (which provide NO points)
- All Bio-Roids have an implanted comlink and datajack (No essence costs. The comlink is Neuro-linked and has usually high/military level determined by the gamemaster. Can be upgraded or switched out or deinstalled like normal)
- Amnesia 1
- Bio-Roids have the Astral Chameleon quality -2 dice to assense/notice (at no charge)
- Assensing or DNA screening reveals them as an "own species", with small traces of metahuman traits. Assensing also shows that Bio-Roids have very low lifeforce.

So that's how i would do it (in general... would need balancing). So yeah: Massive penalties to "awareness and social" skills and attributes. And because of their low "life" very low edge (unheard of) But making them tough, durable as well as having them have peak human performance (as with bio-genetic optimization and exceptional attribute). I would even think that the drawbacks might be worth even more. These should be the anti-thesis to vampires and other infected. Maybe have them have racial magic resistance, to slightly balance out their weak mental stats?

Ah well. Have to work on that too (Even though in my game the next big reveal are the "Perfect Men" of Aztechnology (They are massively genetically engineered - max all stats (but logic and charisma) and pumped up with bloodmagic to the extreme).

Interesting Take... May need a bit more balancing, but not too bad... I like it...

Would suggest taking out the Astral Chameleon flaw. Not only do you have to have the Adept, Mystic Adept, or Magician quality to take it, it really only applies to astral signatures (stuff left behind by spellcasting and the like) and not auras.

Not a bad idea with what you're trying to do for bio-roids, making their auras harder to read, but would be best to try to make this ability something else.

is it just me, or is there an ad on that page advertising a monthly special on high-quality rabbit antibodies? Wtf?


Also, to the main convo, sorry if this was mentioned, but isn't it impossible to have two people who look different but have identical DNA?

You'd think that, but no. Ten years ago a house cat was cloned. The original was a brown tabby, but the clone was a brown and white tabby (source). I's called Epigenetics.

I like the feedback so far, unfortunately I don't have a great deal of time to provide a great deal more information. I'll admit the original post was written rather quickly late at night. When i get home I'll have more notes.

The several people who are mentioning bio-drones and AI's and such are missing the point. These are supposed to be something that by all rights shouldn't exist, a living, breathing, thinking being that is artificially created. Whoever created them either had tech, or magic(or both), that is a good deal beyond that which is currently believed to be available. Part of the reason these could be interesting characters to play is the existential issues that would exist for them. Who am I, who made me, am less of a person(or not a person) than that cyborg over there just because he was born and I was made, do I have free will, what is my purpose. Humans can nearly completely destroy everything that once made them human but still be considered human, but if they try hard enough can something that was never human become one? I intentionally do not for sure say where they come from because any explanation would be torn apart, and also I like the idea of a potential unknown and perhaps dark purpose.

As for game mechanics, I decided they should have something unique, and the idea I decided upon was making them better able to be augmented. It's something that doesn't quite exist yet. As for Summerstorms version, honestly they're broken weak. They're physical attributes are a little strong, but the penalties are more than a little extreme, especially the two negative qualities. I see no reason a modern creation would be Uneducated, and Uncouth is a possibility, but it seems a little harsh to give them without something strong to oppose it.

This I completely agree with. They'd be designed to be as mend-able as possible, so that damaged product could be repaired using off-the-shelf parts without a reduction in performance. The best solution would be to make them genetically compatible with as much bio- and cyberware as possible. Since they are basically organic machines, they need not worry about a "soul", thus essence plays no part. For them, cyberware is like putting a lift and mud tires on a truck, a turbo charger on an engine, smart tires on a rally car. It's a performance upgrade where all that's sacrificed is the original limb and some money.



Exactly. They're waking up with various active skills and knowledge skills. I can see them having difficulty with social skills off the bat, and putting a limiter on how many they can take at chargen might be best. Obviously they can learn them over time with some karma spending, but from the get-go, they aren't going to make optimal Faces. Maybe a custom quality for akwardness? A "Machine becoming Man" quality that wears off after a certain amount of time based on karma awarded for roleplaying demonstrating the android's growth towards a truly metahuman perspective.

Had a thought about using this to create a Sheldon-esque character, at least behaviorally. Doesn't understand jokes, takes things very literally, bases most of life choices on logic.

Liking the input. The main reason I gave them an essence score is to establish that yes they are alive, and they have auras on the like(which means they can be affected by magic, though maybe they should get a bonus to mind effecting spells).

I orginally was going to give an essence reduction for 'ware, but I thought a capacity system would be a slightly more elegant solution, not as much math needed. I'm seeing that may not be the case. Maybe start them with essence 6.0 and give them discounts via various qualities, but add in a quality or note that notes they have a weak aura.

Cloning is like brewing coffee compared to that.

Uhm, if they're indistinguishable from (meta)humans, why not make it a metahuman with a weird past? And "who am I what am I why am I" for - essentuially - a clone with perks (I see no reason to make them bottom up, unless you want to introduce the nanocloud morphs form Transmet, which would be an interesting new type of drone, though a total gamebreaker) is kind of redundant in a world where there are ghosts in the internet, ghosts of people who died while surfing.

And in a world where people are cheap enough to make assembly lines not cost effective, spending bazillions of nuyen on a project that is marginally more repairable than an off-the-shelf metahuman (between cloning, magic and gen-enhanced healing, you can go from no limbs to athlete in less than two weeks) seems quite esotheric.

Sooo...what is the difference between these guys and an escaped clone? Except that they get better stats for a ridiculous discount

And I don't think LS officers ever encounter cyborgs or cyberzombies.

Well, not unless they are put through First Run ...