Hi folks,

First of all, hello everyone and thanks for letting me join

It's looking like I'm going to be running a Shadowrun game for my group in the forseeable future. (Shadowrun 20th Anniversary Edition is the one I have which doesn't seem to have a version icon) I've GMed before, but never Shadowrun, and I don't know to what extent the players have played it either. I knew a bit about the setting before I started. So can I ask for some tips about how things work:

First. Maps. We're coming from D&D 4E where everything is about maps. Some of the sample adventures have maps but most of them don't. Is SR generally run with maps or without and if it's without, how do you deal with players asking for exact ranges?

Secondly, I'm a bit baffled about some of the rules on the Matrix. Specifically:
- If you have Commlink + Simsense + Trodes, you can access AR *or* VR, right? Or is it just VR? I'm just left wondering why anyone buys Monocles/Goggles/AR Gloves when Simsense is just plain cheaper and does all the same things.
- Some of the sample characters seem to have bits missing - some have Commlink + Simsense but no Trodes for instance. Does a Datalink substitute?
- Can you have a Smartlink but no Commlink?
- Commlinks have variable Matrix scores, but part of the text also states that Commlinks substitute for Personal Credsticks, and the Device table says that Credsticks would have Device 6. How's that resolved? I presume the intention isn't that people can gain money by hacking their own Commlink!
- I don't really want to use the add-on books until I've gotten used to running things with just the core, but the FAQ references Unwired stating that one way to stop Cyberware being hacked is to "keep Signal low". But there are no rules letting you choose the Matrix stats of your cyberware, you just get the Device rating based on its Grade. Which paradoxically means that Deltaware, with its higher Device rating, is more easily hacked than the basic stuff (yes, it has higher security too but that can be broken by a high skilled hacker whereas needing to be obviously sitting right next to the guy's cyberarm to hack it is kind of a general dealbreaker)
- Another issue is that an awful lot of the electronics/Matrix rules talk about PANs but most of the items described as having PAN interaction don't have any specific rule saying that their user must have a Commlink. What happens if, when you realize that your smartgun or cyberarm or whatever has been hacked, you throw your commlink on the floor and shoot it? Or you just don't have one in the first place?

Thanks very much!

Phew... some questions you got there. Well... let's get to it (i will clearly be ninjaed though...)

Maps: I HATE the 5 foot- grids of D&D with a PASSION. Telling someone that he can't attack, because he is literally ONE step away is frustrating. I myself keep it fluid and uncertain. I do have floor plans but i guesstimate the ranges and movement speed. But i am pretty good at that, and normaly all people are satisfied with it.

Questions:
1. Aye, both possible (if i am not wrong) But if you have the "possibility" to enter VR, someone can hack you up, force you VR and black hammer you (He needs to be fast of course). Also a lot of people don't really want to keep trodes on all the time.

2. Which brings us to this. A datajack is fully superior to trodes (Fluff/style reasons mostly, but a lot of convinience is in it too)

3. Sure, of course. Smartlink is just the system for the eyes and the gun... how you connect them is entirely your business. Most professionals here use a skinlink connection on their datajack and their gun. But you can got through wireless internal comlink or cable too.

4. THAT is a good question. The whole "paying wireless" and "how much money do i have on my comlink" etc. is VERY vague and VERY vulnerable. I myself do it the safe way: You can load up on creds at your bank, where the security is much higher and carry money in small sums with you from there. Bigger transactions have to be tripple-verified and take more time. So overall: no you can't just "Take all their money with hacking their tiny rating 2 comlink". Big sums will be transfered as certified credsticks (there are rules for forgery there, at least)

5. Eh... First: if not neccessary you can just "deactivate wireless"... something EVERYBODY does with their cyberware, for example. You can also just dial down the signal strength too... but then you can lose connection fast, of course.

5. Internal cyberware is hardwired into your nervous system... and there YOU have the last word. Just restart it - dumping the intruder and all connections. Other devices you can manually restart too. The guy with the button always has the last say in "On/Off". But yeah, electronic warfarte is very viable. So when you are running a "Tacnet" for example, or just have a conference/radio link to your team at all times... something can come in and mess around.

Don't thank everyone, it was a close vote...

First. Maps. We're coming from D&D 4E where everything is about maps. Some of the sample adventures have maps but most of them don't. Is SR generally run with maps or without and if it's without, how do you deal with players asking for exact ranges?


We draw a fight out only if it's going to be a very tactical assault. When we do I use 1m squares unless the fight is in a really big area, then it's 2m.

If we didn't draw it out and they want exact ranges I just guesstimate it. If your group insists on a map because they're used to the minis and don't want to change, you may want to just draw it for every fight. But if they're open to change, SR works really well for freeform combat. The ranges are big enough that you don't have to count squares to see how many targets are inside your close burst 2, and forced movement is almost non-existent.

- If you have Commlink + Simsense + Trodes, you can access AR *or* VR, right? Or is it just VR? I'm just left wondering why anyone buys Monocles/Goggles/AR Gloves when Simsense is just plain cheaper and does all the same things.

AR or VR

- Some of the sample characters seem to have bits missing - some have Commlink + Simsense but no Trodes for instance. Does a Datalink substitute?

Anything that can supply DNI lets you use simsense. This includes trodes, a datajack, skinlinks, and probably some other stuff I'm forgetting.

- Can you have a Smartlink but no Commlink?

Yes. The smartlink can talk directly to your imagelink (glasses, contacts, or cybereyes).

- Commlinks have variable Matrix scores, but part of the text also states that Commlinks substitute for Personal Credsticks, and the Device table says that Credsticks would have Device 6. How's that resolved? I presume the intention isn't that people can gain money by hacking their own Commlink!

I assume the actual money transfer would use rating 6, regardless of the commlink's rating.

- I don't really want to use the add-on books until I've gotten used to running things with just the core, but the FAQ references Unwired stating that one way to stop Cyberware being hacked is to "keep Signal low". But there are no rules letting you choose the Matrix stats of your cyberware, you just get the Device rating based on its Grade. Which paradoxically means that Deltaware, with its higher Device rating, is more easily hacked than the basic stuff (yes, it has higher security too but that can be broken by a high skilled hacker whereas needing to be obviously sitting right next to the guy's cyberarm to hack it is kind of a general dealbreaker)

I don't know if there are rules in Unwired for lowering your signal. I think the idea is that you have control over all of your stuff. If you want to make it weaker, you're allowed.

- Another issue is that an awful lot of the electronics/Matrix rules talk about PANs but most of the items described as having PAN interaction don't have any specific rule saying that their user must have a Commlink. What happens if, when you realize that your smartgun or cyberarm or whatever has been hacked, you throw your commlink on the floor and shoot it? Or you just don't have one in the first place?

If you don't have a commlink you're a nonentity. You can't even buy a soda from a machine because you can't pay for it. You can't see the menu at a restaurant. Your Johnson can't call you to offer you a job. A commlink in 2072 is like your smartphone, wallet, personal secretary, television, radio, PC, etc. If a player insists on not having a commlink then they've got much larger problems then worrying about their smartgun getting hacked.

In general, cyberware has a signal rating of 0 so that techs can access it when they need to. If it's external (a cyberarm, a datajack, etc.) it may not have a signal rating at all, since the techs can plug into it directly. In any case, you can turn the wireless off on your cyberware, and just turn it on every so often to check for system updates.

God idea on waiting for the splatbooks, by the way. The system has enough complexities already without introducing the other rulesets, especially until you've got a handle on balance because every new rulebook introduces some craziness.

Rule of thumb. I often use floor plans of buildings I know (just snap a photo of the evacuation plan) for orientation, but not for exact distances.


To access the matrix via simsense you need three components: A commlink, a sim module, and some kind of DNI (direct neural interface) to connect the sim module to your brain. The latter can be done via trodes, a datajack, or by implanting the whole module.
Skinlink on the other hand does not cut it, this is merely a technique for transmitting data between two devices using the conductivity of the skin. You may of course use a skinlink to have the sim module strapped to your left arm talk to the Datajack on your right temple

AR glasses and gloves may be expensive and impractical, but has that ever stopped people from using something? Maybe they are also scared of having stuff mess with their brain.


-Yes
-This is about certified credsticks, which are still around. In general, just consider them to be magically unhackable
-Change Linked Device Mode explicitly allows you to switch of the wireless on anything you have DNI to with a Free Action. Which is the case for any installed cyberware, otherwise you couldn't move your cyberarm
- The commlink is the central remote control for your PAN devices. Without one you could probably use manual controls on the devices, but this is of course time-consuming (complex action)
-- If somebody has taken control of your TV and you break your remote...well...

The rules for forging nuyen are in Unwired. Let's just say they do not involve hacking your own commlink.
Fluff-wise, that's because the sum you have on your account, be it certified cred or whatever, is verified by searching multiple databases tracking financial transactions; I believe.

You can live without a commlink, since most places still accept certified credsticks, and there are holographic interfaces, touch-based interfaces and basically any other interfaces you can think of in addition to AR you won't be able to see; but I wouldn't call that life really comfortable.

And yeah, skinlink is not an interface for simsense; what comes to AR glasses and gloves, you're most likely wearing pimped-out glasses or sporting cybereyes anyway, why not use them; and unless you have DNI, I'd say trodes are easier to spot than AR-gloves, and AR-gloves are easier to overlook thanks to their omnipresence.

Come on in, we'll try not to bite




Exact maps usually aren't all that necessary. It's very useful to have a clear sketch of how a building works, where the exits, security checkpoints etcetera are, but measurements are rarely all that important. The main use is so that the players can more easily hash out a plan for how they get in, and to show who's standing where in a fight.

Here are some interesting articles about more light-weight maps: article 1 and article 2. I haven't tried out this method yet, but it looks very useful if you need to make maps quickly or need to map huge buildings with lots of uninteresting rooms - it focuses on the important stuff.





It's a bit like PCs, notebooks, smartphones and so forth - convenient interfaces. For VR you need a Sim Module (which renders the Matrix for you), some interface (trodes, datajack, AR gloves, image link) to let you see it, and something to actually run your software on (commlink).

AR is mostly the same, except you can skip the Sim Module. Note that there are some bigger devices (like a Simrig) which also contain a Sim Module.




The premade characters have been known to contain serious character building flaws, so don't take them as too-excellent examples. But a datajack does substitute for trodes; it's like an USB/ethernet port concealed behind your ear.



Yes, but more importantly: you need to have a smartlink both on the gun and in some sort of interface device (cybereyes, contact lenses, glasses...), so you that you can interact with the gun's targeting datafeed.



This hasn't been said to clearly, but my take on it is this:

The money isn't actually on the credstick. The money is in a bank, and the credstick has a list of one-time pads hardcoded in it to match an account on that bank; you can use them to send the bank orders to transfer the money to other accounts. Since these orders are encrypted in a mathematically proven secure manner, it's hopeless to try to spoof transfer orders; you must have the credstick's secret information to make transfers.

So if someone hacks the credstick, they can still clean out the account, but they haven't actually hacked the bank account, they just got access to the credit card.




Hacking cyberware was a dumb idea they came up with so that hackers would try to hack people in combat. It's dumb because nobody worth hacking would be stupid enough to leave their cyberware's wireless transmitters on. And you can't hack what you can't connect to. So in Unwired they quietly retconned the whole thing and said that cyberware with even a whiff of security applications comes with the wireless disabled.

If you sit down next to a street sam, grab your screwdriver and manually connect, sure, you could try to hack him. (If he lets you.) But wireless hacking of cyberware only works if the cyborg is truly incompetent



One way to increase security is to separate important systems.
Your smartlinked gun has a Cybersafety (Arsenal/Augmentation; it's an implant in your hand that connects to the gun. The gun only works if it's being held by someone with the correct Cybersafety implant. The implant doesn't cost Essence, and connects the Smartlink to you too) or a Skinlink (core book), neither of which can be connected to with wireless.
Your implants have had the wifi antennas physically removed. They connect through wires in your body with a socket such as a Datajack. It all connects to a "secret" commlink through Skinlink (or the commlink is actually implanted.) The secret commlink is never used to connect to the outside world directly, but just in case, it has a Firewall 6 and an Agent with the highest Analyze you can get running in it. The whole node is encrypted and has a data bomb set on it. It connects via wires to the Gatekeeper commlink; only someone who gets through the Gatekeeper can even find out it's there, let alone hack it.
Then there's the Gatekeeper commlink: again secured to the hilt, but this is the node you use to communicate with your team with. Don't use it for frivolous things, and shut it off when you're not running, just to cut down on people's chances to notice its existence or probe it.
Finally, there's the Decoy commlink. Not too secure, but not implausibly easy to hack either, it has all sorts of fake data on it. Because cops get suspicious if you don't have any commlink; this one is just to make you look like a normal person.

Now, if it should happen that someone hacks the Gatekeeper commlink, just shut its power off. You'll be running in "autistic mode", as Ghost in the Shell calls it - no way to connect to you, so you can't be hacked. (Remember: the Secret commlink doesn't connect to the Matrix, it just runs all your PAN devices.)

There are two reasons to be less paranoid-radio silent; communication with teammates and a TacNet (Unwired). But if you appear to be hacked, or someone's trying to hack you and it doesn't look good, just cut their access off.

AR gloves are for AR, as the name says. For VR you need to plug your brain into the matrix, no alternatives

Shadowrun is primarily a "cinematic" style game, maps are fantastic for helping visualize the setting or area where action is taking place. It's not a tactical style game where every meter moved matters or has some direct mechanical implication. You'll in fact find some disturbing things when you try sprinting for example. Use a map, but focus on it providing a description of the environment where things are happening, and as the playground where you and the players can use your imagination to describe why that PC Stealth roll worked when there is so little cover on the map, or how that antique chair saved that PC's life when they used Edge to survive that grenade going off at their feet.

Well, you're right, sorta. Somehow I had the idea ghosting around in my head that you could experience simsense without any DNI, but I guess I was wrong about that.

Of course, to confuse things, if you happen to use AR through DNI, you still can't be affected by biofeedback...

Something I don't think anyone has mentioned yet is that monocles/goggles/etc. can have visual enhancements (like low light, thermographic vision, microscopic vision, etc.) added to them. It can save essence if you're awakened, emerged, or just a little short after shoving in a bunch of other cybernetics.

No, well sort of. Your smart linked gun needs to on your pan. The only explicitly sstated way to have/manipulate a PAN is your comlink. As you can see from what others have posted a lot of people feel differently, likely due to not actually reading. Would I allow someone to connect their smartlinked eyes via their datajack to their gun, surely.

Actually, No. Neither your Smartlink, nor your Smartlinked Gun needs to be on your PAN. They can be direct linked through Skinlink, completely bypassing the PAN and the Comlink. Which is actually in the Rules there LurkerOutThere...

Smartlinks were around long before the commlinks or the PANs.

Go cite it and come back to me, I for my part, will go look for the thread i already found my citations in and save time. It's a mostly academic argument but it's one i'm rather proud of as i'm tired of people saying "dur hur skinlink and goggles" as a good way to obsolete cybereyes.

Except that skinlink and goggles are a good way to obsolete cybereyes.

Smartlink requires image link (SR4A 333)
Imagelink displays visual information, usually via the PAN but other methods are possible (SR4A 333)
Skinlink bypasses wireless connections but is limited by touch (SR4A 328)

With skinlink on your goggles and your smartgun you don't need the wireless connection. There's nothing anywhere I could find about a smartlink needing a commlink, though it's usually safer to slave it to your commlink, since the commlink's defenses are probably higher than your smartlink (on the off chance that some hacker decides to be funny with your smartlink). However, if skinlinked there's no chance of hacking anyway.

Cybereyes for a smartlink disappeared as soon as they made the benefits for having glasses be the same. Some people still go that route for flavor or because they want their vision enhancements to be always available, but it's nowhere near still required.

And it should be but that's Magicrun 4th Edition for you. I'm still digging for my sources but smartlink via goggles and the like still looses out on the ability to eject clip or change firing mode as a free action (p.58 unwired). not the end of the world but can certainly provide a tactical advantage.

Do you know that pseudo-slurs (like "Magicrun") make people less likely to pay attention to any valid points you might have?

Never said it obsoleted Cybereyes. You can install a Skinlink in your Eyes, after all.
It IS Cheaper than Cybereyes to use a pair of Skinlinked Goggles, thoguh...

Yes, without the DNI, you do lose some functionality of the Smartlink. No Worries though. It is definitely a Tactical Advantage for the DNI route, to be sure.

Sure, but you still need a way to control those devices (like for example ejecting a clip). And unless you want to poke around on lots of tiny buttons, that means using a commlink as the central control device of you PAN.

Do smart goggles grant the same bonus as a smartlink now? I was sure they used to be less of a benefit compared to the full on implanted smartgun link. Still working my way current on SR4 rules.

Unless you do not care about the Free action cacpabilities gained from the Smartlink. Not everyone does, you know...
After all, you cannot eject a clip from a Revolver. And if there is only a Single Firing Mode, well, being able to change firing mode is useless to you as well...

Definitely. I never said anything about not needing a PAN, just not needing wireless for a smartlink. I'd be upset if I had to live without a smartphone these days. I can't imagine what it'd be like trying to live without a commlink in 2072.

As of SR4, Smartlinks are no different from each other in the Bonuses department (All are +2). Non-DNI solutions still suffer by not having the capabilities of the Free Actions that the Smartlink grants.

Smart Phones are overrated... Never owned one (Still do not own a Cell Phone), and don't plan to start now...

I thought that too, until I owned one. I'm not saying it's a necessity, but it's definitely made my life vastly easier.

Granted, if I was paying for my phone I'd have gone a much cheaper route.

Easier in what way, though. I just do not think that anyone should be able to reach me, 24/7/365.

Bah I always thought it was a nice little bonus to the wired. Oh well there are always house rules.

Possibly, but more and more this is how I feel. Shadowrun has always favored the magic side of the house 4th edition just finally pushed it over that limit so I'm not going to censor myself to try and earn debate points, because what I think obviously doesn't matter. Cyber is now passe, wires that need to pass information through your hair and skull are the equal of their implanted equivalent, non ware gives the exact same bonuses as ware, defeating technical sensors with magic is just a matter of increasing the drain value, no dragon has ever been definatively killed by military force even when they go all Gojira style in downtown Denver. One of the best builds you can get right now for a hacker is a physical adept, cyberware is hackable, computers speficly military targeting computers can be magicly hacked etc etc.

It's weird because I recognized it's a game but every time I sit down and think about this particular aspect of SR and it's evolution I can't help but feel that somethign intrinsic to the game has become flawed, and that makes me legitimately sad, so therefore Magicrun.

Just that the vision enhancement does not bestow any free actions, it just provides the +2 aiming bonus displays a lot of status data (go ahead, read the description). In order to command a device to do something with a free action, you need some sort of input device - like an implanted smartlink (implants can be controlled via DNI), AR gloves, or a sim module.

I don't think they should be able to either. Luckily smartphones (and all cell phones for that matter) have this fancy new doodad called volume control.

Easier in that if I want to know something, I reach into my pocket and ask google. If I need to remember something (I have a horrible memory for times, dates, appointments, etc.) I reach into my pocket and put it into my calendar. If I think of something I want to tell my wife, but that isn't important enough to stick in the forefront of my mind until I see her again, I reach into my pocket and shoot her a text. If I'm bored but can't go somewhere (like stuck on a bus or in a line) I reach into my pocket and find a free game to play, surf these boards, or browse sciencedaily.com depending on how mentally active I feel that moment. My A/C in my car doesn't work so my windows are always down, which makes listening to the radio on my 45 minute drive to work an impossibility so I reach into my pocket, put on some headphones, and listen to audiobooks instead.

It's by no means a necessity, but it's a luxury that's very easy to get used to.

Back to the commlinks though, they're even more integral to life in 2072. They're all of the above and also how you buy a soda or a sweatshirt since a lot of places don't take certified cred anymore (and you're probably not going to be paid on a stick unless it's under the table). Their DNI connection is probably better entertainment than the trideo set you've got at home. If The Shallows is even close to right, another 60 years of constant internet connectivity has probably destroyed the average person's memory and attention span.

Yes, I know... And Commanding the device is not always desireable, or possible (As the example I provided shows). Using a Free action on something that cannot support that Free Action is kind of pointless, don't you think?

All very good points. And all very Understandable. And yet, I am still unconvinced...

As for the Comlink in Shadowrun. I can agree completely.

That's ok. I wasn't trying to convince you, just answering your question.

Heh... No Worries. I know a lot of people who swear by their electronic devices...

Yep. Just like trodes cost less than a datajack and don't reduce your essence but have no drawbacks.

That's why they come with an off button.

If you can stand to have the damned things off...

Too many family emergencies have cropped up for me to ever turn mine off.

Well to be fair, trodes always have done that in SR, even back in 1st edition.

I guess you could always say trodes are only good for cold sim VR or something.

In earlier editions I recall hacking through trodes having a small penalty.

I can't recall but it's possible

Uh, open any book printed before the Fourth Edition, like third edition core? There you go, smartlinks [x], decks [x], commlinks [ ], PANs [ ].

IIRC, trodes used to at least be obvious and not socially normal. Nanopaste Trodes removed all that.

Ok, so I'm getting a bit of idea about what's going on, but from what it sounds like it's rather open-ended. As I mentioned I doubt anyone in the group would want to play a hacker so I'm figuring that hackers working against them should be more brief plot elements than tactically deployed units.

Are there any established solutions for dealing with the unbalance between equipment? I would think that if you're walking around with a body covered in wires then someone swinging a knife at you becomes a much bigger problem than it would otherwise..

That's where glitches and critical glitches come in. Maybe the guy running wireless glitches and falls prone. The guy running wired glitches and has his trodes' cable cut. Now his Tac-Net no longer helps, he can't talk to his teammates without shouting, and he has to pay some small pittance to get a new cable.

Uh, actually, in the 70ies, you don't need wires any more. If you don't trust wireless (and there's no reason for you to) go skinlink.

Also, not having a hacker in a team is generally a bad idea. Have your team consider how they're dealing with cams and other security systems, data searches etc...

Eh, if nobody wants to play one I'd rather fudge the setting or give them a contact than force someone to. And if - as it seems - the apparent attempt in SR4 to make hacking an "alternate universe" in regular combat has failed, then the old decker probem comes straight back and I'd rather avoid it.

No need to force someone to play the Archtype if they don't want to. An NPC can work out just as well.

But I would contend that integration of the Matrix into regular combat ahs not failed; at least not at our table. It is quite smooth, and works out great. It does require those players with Hacker Characters, as well as the GM, to be very familiar with the Matrix rules, but once you have accomplished that, it flows very well. In my experience anyways.

That said, it's not absolutely required. Depending on the group and tone, the game can get REALLY fun if forced into 'alternate' problem-solving strategies. Just make sure someone takes demolition, ifyouknowwhatImean....

I was only responding to the post above which said that Cyberware hacking was an attempt to involve hackers in regular combat and (according to that post) it apparently failed so bady it had to be retconned.

How does it work in your games?