I feel like this is a question I should be able to answer, but can't, so I figured I would ask the gurus here:
If a mage casts a spell with range "touch" on someone else, and wants to sustain the spell, do they need to maintain physical contact, or do they only need touch to put the spell in place?
For that matter, if a mage looses LOS on the target of a LOS spell, can they still sustain it?
My intuition says they need to maintain the correct range to sustain the spell, but I vaguely remember reading something that said they did not somwhere.
I tried a quick search, and did a pass in SR4A and Street Magic, and I can't find the answer, so if anyone can point me to the relevant rule, I would greatly appreciate it.
Full Version: Sustaining touch spells
QUOTE (BlackHat @ May 31 2011, 06:39 PM) 
I feel like this is a question I should be able to answer, but can't, so I figured I would ask the gurus here:
If a mage casts a spell with range "touch" on someone else, and wants to sustain the spell, do they need to maintain physical contact, or do they only need touch to put the spell in place?
For that matter, if a mage looses LOS on the target of a LOS spell, can they still sustain it?
My intuition says they need to maintain the correct range to sustain the spell, but I vaguely remember reading something that said they did not somwhere.
I tried a quick search, and did a pass in SR4A and Street Magic, and I can't find the answer, so if anyone can point me to the relevant rule, I would greatly appreciate it.
If a mage casts a spell with range "touch" on someone else, and wants to sustain the spell, do they need to maintain physical contact, or do they only need touch to put the spell in place?
For that matter, if a mage looses LOS on the target of a LOS spell, can they still sustain it?
My intuition says they need to maintain the correct range to sustain the spell, but I vaguely remember reading something that said they did not somwhere.
I tried a quick search, and did a pass in SR4A and Street Magic, and I can't find the answer, so if anyone can point me to the relevant rule, I would greatly appreciate it.
I am pretty sure nothing is needed to sustain a spell except concentration.
Correct once the initial contact is made in order to sustain the spell, the caster need only concentrate on it or foist it off onto a spirit to maintain.
Okay, but do either of you have a page reference for this? I'm happy to go with this rule, but I'd be curious if it is actually spelled out anywhere.
QUOTE (BlackHat @ May 31 2011, 08:16 PM)
Okay, but do either of you have a page reference for this? I'm happy to go with this rule, but I'd be curious if it is actually spelled out anywhere.
I looked after I posted but could not find a reference. I would have sworn I read it someplace though. Older edition maybe.
EDIT: Found it.
Do you need to maintain line of sight (or touch, with Touch range spells) to sustain a spell? What about Permanent spells?
A spell requires a magical link (touch, sight, material link, symbolic link, etc.) to cast. There is, however, no requirement for the magician to maintain touch or line-of-sight while maintaining the spell, as the link between caster and spell is already in effect. By the same principle, you do not need to maintain touch or line of sight when casting a Permanent spell; the spell must simply be maintained until the spell’s effects become permanent.
From: http://www.shadowrun4.com/game-resources/f...sked-questions/
Awesome thanks.
I'm fairly certain it is also listed in one of the books. I don't know which one atm as I'm not near my books.
I do recall that it's more of a lack of prohibition than an express indication you can. That said, the Magic system (going all the way back to SR1) has always taken the tack that spell requirements were on the casting, not the sustaining of the spell. If it were a sustained spell, you then started sustaining it regardless of circumstances (planar location, touch requirements, etc) so long as local mana conditions allowed you to.
I do recall that it's more of a lack of prohibition than an express indication you can. That said, the Magic system (going all the way back to SR1) has always taken the tack that spell requirements were on the casting, not the sustaining of the spell. If it were a sustained spell, you then started sustaining it regardless of circumstances (planar location, touch requirements, etc) so long as local mana conditions allowed you to.
QUOTE (SR4A page 184)
Step 7: Ongoing Effects
Many spells can be sustained for as long as the magician is willing
to concentrate on the spell, as noted in the spell’s Duration. While
sustained spells do offer the opportunity to have an ongoing magical
effect, they are also draining on the magician’s magical abilities. For
each sustained spell the magician maintains, she suffers a –2 dice penalty
on all other tests.
If an area-effect spell is sustained, the affected area may be moved
with a Complex Action, as long as it remains within line of sight.
Characters who “drop out” of the affected area are no longer affected
by the spell; characters who are “enveloped” by the area must defend
against the effects of the spell as appropriate.
If the gamemaster chooses, certain circumstances may threaten to
break a magician’s concentration while she is sustaining a spell, such as
taking damage, full defense, dropping prone, and so on. If a magician’s
concentration is disrupted while sustaining a spell, she must make a
Spellcasting + Willpower (2) Test to avoid dropping the sustained
spell (note that the sustaining modifier does not apply to this test).
Many spells can be sustained for as long as the magician is willing
to concentrate on the spell, as noted in the spell’s Duration. While
sustained spells do offer the opportunity to have an ongoing magical
effect, they are also draining on the magician’s magical abilities. For
each sustained spell the magician maintains, she suffers a –2 dice penalty
on all other tests.
If an area-effect spell is sustained, the affected area may be moved
with a Complex Action, as long as it remains within line of sight.
Characters who “drop out” of the affected area are no longer affected
by the spell; characters who are “enveloped” by the area must defend
against the effects of the spell as appropriate.
If the gamemaster chooses, certain circumstances may threaten to
break a magician’s concentration while she is sustaining a spell, such as
taking damage, full defense, dropping prone, and so on. If a magician’s
concentration is disrupted while sustaining a spell, she must make a
Spellcasting + Willpower (2) Test to avoid dropping the sustained
spell (note that the sustaining modifier does not apply to this test).
The underlined part very heavily implies that you don't need LOS for sustaining a spell, but it's not outright stated anywhere in the rules AFAIK.
It's also been stated here on the boards by dev types that like spirit powers, spells have to meet the activation / usage requirements. Once that is done, they then follow their duration criteria. Sustained spells stay active so long as the caster is sustaining them.
It was also said that sustaining of powers / spells can be across the Physical / Astral Boundary as it's just keeping the mana conduit open once it is established by the act of casting / activating.
At any rate, it's how I've ruled it since SR1 and I've never had any problems. Truthfully, it seldom comes up in play.
It was also said that sustaining of powers / spells can be across the Physical / Astral Boundary as it's just keeping the mana conduit open once it is established by the act of casting / activating.
At any rate, it's how I've ruled it since SR1 and I've never had any problems. Truthfully, it seldom comes up in play.
I could see it coming up with a heal spell, since those are touch range. You cast heal, the person gets up, but you need to keep sustaining it for a while to make it permanent. It would suck to have to run around holding their shoulder or whatever while they try and fight.
In previous versions didn't one have to drop all sustained spells to switch between astral projection and meat bod? Don't recall seeing that in 4th though.
QUOTE (darthmord @ Jun 3 2011, 12:54 AM)
It's also been stated here on the boards by dev types that like spirit powers, spells have to meet the activation / usage requirements. Once that is done, they then follow their duration criteria. Sustained spells stay active so long as the caster is sustaining them.
It was also said that sustaining of powers / spells can be across the Physical / Astral Boundary as it's just keeping the mana conduit open once it is established by the act of casting / activating.
There is an example in SM of a spirit establishing the Guard power on someone and then going back to the astral plane. I don't remember the page now (AFB) but there is RAW to say sustaining (of powers) does not require ongoing range or plane requirement statisfaction.It was also said that sustaining of powers / spells can be across the Physical / Astral Boundary as it's just keeping the mana conduit open once it is established by the act of casting / activating.
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 3 2011, 06:39 AM)
In previous versions didn't one have to drop all sustained spells to switch between astral projection and meat bod? Don't recall seeing that in 4th though.
That's because astral projection was an exclusive action which doesn't exist in SR4. If you had a sustaining focus, you didn't need to drop such a spell as you weren't concentrating on sustaining it. On the other hand, if you limited your spell by making it exclusive (to lower its karma or drain cost by 2), you couldn't put it into a sustaining focus, because casting excluded other activities (such as activating the focus).
Yea, I guess I missed that didn't happen anymore (dropping sustained spells to go astral). I think that was a pretty good balance for magicians. But then you'd have to rule that spirits have to remain Materialized to use physical powers on folks as well.
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