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baronspam
I have seen the phrase "Pink Mowhawk" and "Little Pink Mowhawk" used a number of times to describe (i think) a game/camgaign style. What exactly does that mean and what is the reference?

I am sure I will branded an unwashed newbie for asking this.
nezumi
AWESOME JUMPING THE MOTORCYCLE THROUGH THE EXPLODING HELICOPTERS, BACKFLIPPING INTO FIFTY NINJAS WHILE SHOOTING YOUR AK AND USING YOUR GYM-KATA SKILL TO KNOCK THEM ALL FLAT, WHILE YOUR MAGE AND CYBERDECKER FLY IN ON THEIR DRAGON, KIYO AND BLAST THROUGH THE WALL CLEARING THE ESCAPE ROUTE WHOOOOOOOO!!!!

(It's playing fast, loose and loud, with limited enforcement of 'real world' consequences.)
Vuron
Pink Mohawk is over the top 80s style action more common in the earlier versions of the game. Big pink mohawks, mirror shades, big guns and bigger firefights, typical 80s action star explosions, etc.

The more common style is Black Trenchcoat which is serious action with complete professionals. SR has slowly become more and more Black Trenchcoat over the years but there are still Pink Mohawk elements hanging out in the closet.
Mäx
Pink Mohawk refers to Game and/or character(s) that are totally over the top, as opposed to the black trench coat and mirror shades brigade of the ice-cold pro's.

Typical hallmarks of a pink mohawk campaing are severe lack of concugensies for having big firefights nad similar stuff during a cource of the run.
Adarael
Pink Mohawk: Like an 80s Action Movie. Complete with ninjas. Hair metal and/or power ballads optional.
Black Trenchoat: Like Heat, or Ronin. Slipping up will cost you your life and everything you hold dear.

Optional genres:

Chrome Robot: Like mid 90s anime, ala Ghost in the Shell, Cybercity Odeo 808, or Akira. Add more robots, more inexplicable philosophy, and bouncier bits on the ladies. Big guns and big consequences.
Gray Martini: Pseudo-retro film noir style. A touch a black trenchcoat, but with more vileness on everybody's part and less "be perfect all the time or you die", because you're a little fish in a big pond and nobody will notice if you don't stick your nose out.
Electric Elephant: Bollywood Kung Fu monks, secret agents played by Shah Rukh Khan, Airplanes that are also hotels and are run by robots and then EVERYONE DANCES AND SINGS ABOUT UNREQUITED LOVE.

Full disclosure: I totally just made those last three up.
Yerameyahu
Some good threads on this previously, so be sure to search.
Synner667
Pink Mohican = take a look at much of the Shadowrun artwork, and play the game it inspires, which is the game inspired by the books and films of the time.
Black Trenchcoat = where you take yourself too seriously and think multimillion yen bank accounts or budgets are streetlevel.


QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 1 2011, 08:01 PM) *
Full disclosure: I totally just made those last three up.

And they are just as awesome and viable !!
CanRay
QUOTE (Vuron @ Jun 1 2011, 02:56 PM) *
SR has slowly become more and more Black Trenchcoat over the years but there are still Pink Mohawk elements hanging out in the closet.

Which is funny, because most of the homosexuals are out of the closet by Shadowrun time. nyahnyah.gif

Guess there has to be SOMEONE in there. wink.gif
Headshot_Joe
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 1 2011, 01:36 PM) *
Which is funny, because most of the homosexuals are out of the closet by Shadowrun time. nyahnyah.gif

Guess there has to be SOMEONE in there. wink.gif

"Hello, my name is Damian Knight, and I'm a closet Pink Mohawker..."

Big Touble in Little China is Pink Mohawk

The Matrix is a bit Pink (giant robot battles, impossible gun-fu stunts) at times, but is also heavily Black Trenchy

Enemy of the State is completely Black Trenchcoat
Ascalaphus
I think this is one of the best descriptions:

QUOTE (CanRay @ Mar 17 2011, 03:44 PM) *
It's also a drink you can order at Club Penumbra. nyahnyah.gif

It's the style of game when RPGs were still newish and people thought of Shadowrun as "D&D with Guns". More Punk, Less Cyber, essentially. Take the first part of "A Clockwork Orange", mix in everything you know about Punk Culture (If you're not old enough to remember Punk when it was real, research!), add in Fantasy Elements... Then pour in RoboCop and The Terminator. Season to taste, and cook at 400 Degrees until the guy in your oven breaks out and punches you in the face.


Follow the quote back to read a nice topic about it smile.gif
CanRay
The drink comes with a little paper umbrella of The Union Jack that's frayed at the sides. nyahnyah.gif
Critias
"Pink Mohawk" catches a lot of flak it doesn't deserve, or at least it gets stereotyped as a lot wilder than it has to be. Every game of Shadowrun (and even every printed Shadowrun adventure, sourcebook, or what-have-you) isn't Pink Mohawk or Black Trenchcoat, it's somewhere on a sliding scale between the two.

Taken to the utmost extreme, Pink Mohawk is cartoony nonsense that is a parody of Shadowrun. Taken to the utmost extreme, Black Trenchcoat is every bit as unplayable, because it means doing away with the things that make shadowrunners possible, it would mean ramping up security "logically" and "realistically" to the level where the game is an impossibility, and it turns into soul-crushing boredom and paranoia until the slightest misstep gets the party killed.

Pink Mohawk is fun. Black Trenchcoat is realistic. Pick your poison, find your own personal favorite spot along that sliding scale.
CanRay
Pink Mohawk is the Extreme Liberal (Left Wing) of the game. Black Trenchcoat is the extreme Conservative (Right Wing) of the game. Ice Cold is right in the middle, who swings back and forth depending on the situation and personal background.

The Accountant From Hell, for example comes off as a Black Trenchcoat, planning everything to a T, insists on split second timing, and tries hard to keep things professional.

Pup The Dog Shaman is Pink Mohawk, he's angry, and wants to share that anger with the world. He's smashing walls and shooting things up left, right and centre without a care in the world for consequences as long as he gets to the target of what's pissed him off the most.

Both can swing the other way (Or at least to Ice Cold) quickly if their berserk buttons are pressed.
suoq
Missions, due to timeframe and encapsulation of each mission and some of the completely unjustifiable stuff that happens in them has always struck me as Pink Mohawk in both Season 3 and Season 4 which makes me wonder about Vuron's "more common in the earlier versions of the game" comment. I suspect I played with very different people in the 80's than he did.
Vuron
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 1 2011, 04:54 PM) *
Missions, due to timeframe and encapsulation of each mission and some of the completely unjustifiable stuff that happens in them has always struck me as Pink Mohawk in both Season 3 and Season 4 which makes me wonder about Vuron's "more common in the earlier versions of the game" comment. I suspect I played with very different people in the 80's than he did.



For me at least Laubenstein's art and the cover of 1e Shadowrun (particularly Lady Tsung in her cutoff shorts and Bikini Top exemplifies Pink Mohawk, some of Steve Prescott's stuff in 3e comes close but for me at least 1e was very Pink Mohawk. Later editions seem to have toned down the Lady Tsung style dresscode and settled into a much more Black Trenchcoat motif. Elements that are too light in feel like /dev/girl and the Attitudes book do exist but they seem more like exceptions to the base rule of highly professional elite level shadowrunners.

Missions might be more Pink Mohawk than the base game but IMHO the game seems to have moved away from some of the more over the top elements that made 80s SR such a remarkable newcomer on the gaming scene.

suoq
??? We have a shootout with almost everyone taking cover vs drones blowing up, a chopper, and someone using swords on the other. We have a trenchcoat armor over a set of "california girls" clothing vs an evening dress OVER an armored vest (and that's one custom fit armored vest....)

I'm sorry. I'm just not seeing it.

I'll give the SR4 cover credit. It's nowhere near as Pink Mohawk as the covers for Unwired (firefight, no cover), Arsenal (seriously....), or Street Magic (which looks like an 80's action movie).

And SR1 had the ultimate non-violent archtype. I miss the rocker.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 1 2011, 03:24 PM) *
??? We have a shootout with almost everyone taking cover vs drones blowing up, a chopper, and someone using swords on the other. We have a trenchcoat armor over a set of "california girls" clothing vs an evening dress OVER an armored vest (and that's one custom fit armored vest....)

I'm sorry. I'm just not seeing it.

I'll give the SR4 cover credit. It's nowhere near as Pink Mohawk as the covers for Unwired (firefight, no cover), Arsenal (seriously....), or Street Magic (which looks like an 80's action movie).

And SR1 had the ultimate non-violent archtype. I miss the rocker.


I really do love my Rocker Character... He is a SR4 Character, which makes him even better... smile.gif
kzt
QUOTE (Headshot_Joe @ Jun 1 2011, 01:44 PM) *
Enemy of the State is completely Black Trenchcoat

I've been told by actual intelligence types that Enemy of the State is one of the movies that best "gets" how that kind of organization works and how people inside think. They also hate it and think the entire concept is absurd, but it's miles ahead of 3 Days of the Condor and similar trash.
nezumi
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 1 2011, 04:01 PM) *
Optional genres:

Chrome Robot: Like mid 90s anime, ala Ghost in the Shell, Cybercity Odeo 808, or Akira. Add more robots, more inexplicable philosophy, and bouncier bits on the ladies. Big guns and big consequences.
Gray Martini: Pseudo-retro film noir style. A touch a black trenchcoat, but with more vileness on everybody's part and less "be perfect all the time or you die", because you're a little fish in a big pond and nobody will notice if you don't stick your nose out.
Electric Elephant: Bollywood Kung Fu monks, secret agents played by Shah Rukh Khan, Airplanes that are also hotels and are run by robots and then EVERYONE DANCES AND SINGS ABOUT UNREQUITED LOVE.

Full disclosure: I totally just made those last three up.


Wow, +1 karma for an excellent post.

I've actually played two of those. I am deeply intrigued about the third (sounds kind of like Exalted, actually).
Adarael
I never got to run my Electric Elephant game, due to time constraints, but Exalted was a major inspiration for it, actually. It came to me as an evolution of a "Sidereals as MI6 agents in Yu-Shan, when Infernals had already suborned the Celestial Bureaucracy." And then I thought it would be even more fun to go totally gonzo and run a Shadowrun game where valid PC options were things like "Natarki Ninja-Masseuse" and "Robo-Asetic Hit Man".

The idea behind the song and dance numbers was that they were going to be in-game events that refreshed edge, gave bonus Karma, or both.
nezumi
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 1 2011, 06:52 PM) *
The idea behind the song and dance numbers was that they were going to be in-game events that refreshed edge, gave bonus Karma, or both.


I am so stealing this. I don't know for what, but I'll find something.
ggodo
QUOTE (nezumi @ Jun 1 2011, 05:07 PM) *
I am so stealing this. I don't know for what, but I'll find something.


I've got a theory. . .
Bodak
QUOTE (baronspam @ Jun 2 2011, 05:48 AM) *
I am going to loose serious geek cred for this, but. . .
I think you mean lose.
CanRay
No, The Geek Is Loose... And now we know the truth!
Wakshaani
For the record, my game tends to be "CyberNoir", where the players are little fish in a big pond, pulpy types who aren't GOOD, but are better than most. They've very much got feet of clay and tend to hang around, well, the shaodws of the world. Downtown is a dangerous place to be... but you can survive in the slums. You only stick your head out long enough to get something done, then go back and lurk where The Man doesn't go.
CanRay
TechNoir?
Tiralee
God damn you Canray - now I'm going to have to load up Deus Ex again.


-Tir
LurkerOutThere
QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 1 2011, 06:05 PM) *
I've been told by actual intelligence types that Enemy of the State is one of the movies that best "gets" how that kind of organization works and how people inside think. They also hate it and think the entire concept is absurd, but it's miles ahead of 3 Days of the Condor and similar trash.


I always figure it's similar to the feelings bubbleheads have for Crimson Tide.

I've always felt that what really seperates Pink Mohawk from Black Trenchcoat is the expectation of consequences. In a pink mohawk game you shoot your way in, shoot and dash your way out, in Black Trenchcoat you generally sneak your way in, shoot your way out and then burn a lot of your fake sins or anything else that might be compromised. In Black Trenchcoat the opposition is more competent or at least more organized, the world is sometimes a little better....safer..more secure because just as you can't take a vindicator to a mall without expecting to draw attention and have consequences neither can the Halloweeners.

In many ways pink mohawk is the world the old SNES game lives in, Rock Bands and all, Trenchcoat is bit closer to where the old sega game lives.
LurkerOutThere
Also on the subject of deus ex

[img]http://www.moronail.net/img/1546_deus_ex[/img]
MJBurrage
QUOTE (kzt @ Jun 1 2011, 07:05 PM) *
I've been told by actual intelligence types that Enemy of the State is one of the movies that best "gets" how that kind of organization works and how people inside think. They also hate it and think the entire concept is absurd, but it's miles ahead of 3 Days of the Condor and similar trash.

I am a fan of Enemy of the State primarily because of how accurate much of the film was. The story might be farfetched, but as far as I can tell all of the tech and capabilities are real with only one exception. (the scene where they scan the bottom of a shopping bag by extrapolating from ceiling mounted cameras.)
CanRay
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 1 2011, 11:37 PM) *
No, The Geek Is Loose... And now we know the truth!

Found a better video for The Geek Being Loose!

Honestly, all it's lacking is a keg of beer and a bottle of whiskey to make it even more Metal.
Adarael
Re: Enemy of the State - I saw it when it came out on video, but that was 12 years ago or whenever, so my memory is fuzzy... But I seem to recall that the NSA was (in the film) capable of eavesdropping on people having conversations anywhere they were within earshot of ANY phone. And that they also had real-time, 1-2 inch resolution satellite video feeds of anywhere they wanted, whenever they wanted. Both of these are bullshit tech.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 3 2011, 09:13 AM) *
Re: Enemy of the State - I saw it when it came out on video, but that was 12 years ago or whenever, so my memory is fuzzy... But I seem to recall that the NSA was (in the film) capable of eavesdropping on people having conversations anywhere they were within earshot of ANY phone. And that they also had real-time, 1-2 inch resolution satellite video feeds of anywhere they wanted, whenever they wanted. Both of these are bullshit tech.


Of Course they are... Real time satellite coverage takes a few minutes to get in place... smile.gif Assumming that it is not already there in Geosync in the first place. Enemy of the State assumes that there are more satellites in orbit than may actually be there. Of course, they may, in fact, actually be there. The NSA has a lot of really cool stuff. *waves to the nice NSA boys* smile.gif
Adarael
I was simply commenting on more of the stuff that "didn't exist", much like the "extrapolating what was in the bag" commentary.

Without getting too deep into it, what I'll say is that fiction routinely overstimates how fast spy sats can get a picture of something, and their video recording capabilities (which are generally "none whatsoever") and routinely underestimates how accurate they are with radar and thermal imaging.

Also, in terms of geosync sats: they're all SIGINT sats, not IMINT. Currently IMINT sats have to be much closer to earth to be able to resolve halfway decent pictures; anything that far out needs to be held exactly still if it's going to compete (resolution wise) with LEO sats, and we can't really do that due to solar wind and shit.

(Edit: This is not because I know, personally, anything about this shit. This is because one of my best friends from college works for JPL, and is always working with Lockheed on these kinds of things. So I pick her brain.)
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Adarael @ Jun 3 2011, 09:36 AM) *
I was simply commenting on more of the stuff that "didn't exist", much like the "extrapolating what was in the bag" commentary.

Without getting too deep into it, what I'll say is that fiction routinely overstimates how fast spy sats can get a picture of something, and their video recording capabilities (which are generally "none whatsoever") and routinely underestimates how accurate they are with radar and thermal imaging.

Also, in terms of geosync sats: they're all SIGINT sats, not IMINT. Currently IMINT sats have to be much closer to earth to be able to resolve halfway decent pictures; anything that far out needs to be held exactly still if it's going to compete (resolution wise) with LEO sats, and we can't really do that due to solar wind and shit.

(Edit: This is not because I know, personally, anything about this shit. This is because one of my best friends from college works for JPL, and is always working with Lockheed on these kinds of things. So I pick her brain.)



Heh...

True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*

Again, you would be surprised...

No worries. Also, never forget the crazy array of Intelligence assets that reside in a city. Cameras all over the place, both inside and outside of buildings. Along the roads, and everywhere else. All it takes is a Court Order to gain access to such systems (at least here in the US).

You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. smile.gif
CanRay
Look at the amount of info you can get out of ATM Machines alone. nyahnyah.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 3 2011, 09:59 AM) *
Look at the amount of info you can get out of ATM Machines alone. nyahnyah.gif


Indeed, one of many such examples that abound. wobble.gif
Adarael
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 3 2011, 09:54 AM) *
True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*
...
You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. smile.gif


No, I assure you, I really wouldn't.
CanRay
I used ATMs as an example as their security systems are often updated more often than other systems. How old are those traffic cameras? How well maintained, and so on...

London has more Cameras Per Capita than anywhere (IIRC, at least), but they're all not exactly the most up-to-date systems around either. Ironic in some ways, being the location for Nineteen Eighty-Four...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 3 2011, 10:06 AM) *
I used ATMs as an example as their security systems are often updated more often than other systems. How old are those traffic cameras? How well maintained, and so on...

London has more Cameras Per Capita than anywhere (IIRC, at least), but they're all not exactly the most up-to-date systems around either. Ironic in some ways, being the location for Nineteen Eighty-Four...


No doubt...

Age has an impact, but not as much as you might think. London has so many cameras they are a mess to manage. But, Given time, and effort, the data that these cameras collect can be useful. Not so much in the moment, as it takes time to gain access to them for such purpose, but very useful after the fact.

The problem is always going to be immediacy. If the NSA (or other organization) can gain access to such systems, without the need for such things as following the law, then they have a very beneficial system. The question becomes, is the NSA (or other organization) actually spending the money to connect these systems with backdoors so that they can subvert the system for their own purposes.

I would say Not Likely. But the hidden Conspiracy Theorist in me says that it is definitely possible, even if only minimally so.
Bigity
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 3 2011, 10:20 AM) *
Of Course they are... Real time satellite coverage takes a few minutes to get in place... smile.gif Assumming that it is not already there in Geosync in the first place. Enemy of the State assumes that there are more satellites in orbit than may actually be there. Of course, they may, in fact, actually be there. The NSA has a lot of really cool stuff. *waves to the nice NSA boys* smile.gif


It's also stupid expensive to retask the existing sats we do have up there out of their normal orbit. There is indeed some awesome intel gathering stuff out there, but the movie is exaggerating in many cases, and outright fabricating stuff in others. But it's probably only a matter of time.
Bigity
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 3 2011, 10:54 AM) *
Heh...

True, what is seen on the TV and in the Movies is often overrated and exaggerated. However, you would be surprised at what exactly can be resolved on Intelligence gathering satellites. *Waves again at the nice Intelligence Analysts*

Again, you would be surprised...

No worries. Also, never forget the crazy array of Intelligence assets that reside in a city. Cameras all over the place, both inside and outside of buildings. Along the roads, and everywhere else. All it takes is a Court Order to gain access to such systems (at least here in the US).

You would be surprised at the amount of data that can be gleaned if the Intelligence services put their mind to it; and if they could ever cooperate, instead of having territorial pissing matches. smile.gif



Well, think of it like this. During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch. Think about what they could do now. It's scary stuff, but it's also stuff you'd worry yourself to death with if you worried about it actively.
suoq
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 3 2011, 11:19 AM) *
During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch.
You must have served in a different Desert Storm than I did. That being said, there's so many particles in the air between the watch and the sky, that I'm seriously doubting such an optical solution is possible.

Bigity
Oh I'm sure it was a perfect combination of factors. The point being, that stuff evolves just as fast as computers do so who knows what's next. I mean they are working on a gun that will explode mini grenades just above a piece of cover such as a wall to get the people crouching behind it. And that's all internal to the gun. Once there is better software that can parse more data out of all kinds of disjointed images, ugh.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 3 2011, 11:17 AM) *
It's also stupid expensive to retask the existing sats we do have up there out of their normal orbit. There is indeed some awesome intel gathering stuff out there, but the movie is exaggerating in many cases, and outright fabricating stuff in others. But it's probably only a matter of time.


Indeed... If you can wait, retasking is ludicrous... You can only retask so many times, afterall...
Sometimes, however, you just have to retask. Probably happens more often than we would like, but not as often as in the movies... wobble.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Bigity @ Jun 3 2011, 11:19 AM) *
Well, think of it like this. During Desert Storm we had sats that would generate a picture so good you could tell the time off of someone's wristwatch. Think about what they could do now. It's scary stuff, but it's also stuff you'd worry yourself to death with if you worried about it actively.


Been there, seen that...
I don't worry about it all that much, personally. Heh, I am a law abiding citizen, why should I worry? smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (suoq @ Jun 3 2011, 11:25 AM) *
You must have served in a different Desert Storm than I did. That being said, there's so many particles in the air between the watch and the sky, that I'm seriously doubting such an optical solution is possible.


Well, Such solutions ARE (and were) possible, but, as has been pointed out, it is not a guarantee. Many factors go into such things, and circumstances can (and do) change minute to minute. But what was available 20 years ago in Desert Storm has only gotten better.
MJBurrage
While I am sure that we have surveillance drones that could read a watch while flying high enough to stay hidden, we do not have satelites that could do that.

I remember an astrophysics paper that calculated the max possible spy satellite resolution as 10cm. This is because the limit is not tech based but lens/mirror based, and the largest lens/mirror we could launch in either the shuttle or on any other rocket ever built is only large enough to get 10cm resolution.

I.E. we could build a satellite that could read a watch, but we have no way to get it into space.
Bigity
That's possible, I wasn't allowed to know the source of the image smile.gif The intel pukes were all showing it off to us programmers one day. After it was cleared for release.
CanRay
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 3 2011, 01:56 PM) *
I don't worry about it all that much, personally. Heh, I am a law abiding citizen, why should I worry? smile.gif

You're a law abiding citizen... *NOW*. I know how easily it can go from that to criminal in no time.

Case in point, a Canadian Psychiatrist was the guest of honor at a convention in Las Vegas, he was driving across the border when the guard decided to Google the guy's name, just off the top of his head.

And found out that he had taken LSD. Instant and permanent ban from the USA for life.

Thing is, the thing found was a paper written when LSD was being researched, and he had done it as part of research when it was legal. He can't even get a pardon for the crime (As he had committed none), and hadn't even broken any laws, yet is dumped in the same pile of people as have been found with cars stacked to the brim with China White trying to sneak by.

Needless to say, the people at the convention were far from pleased.
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