Full Version: Map making and deciding how a GM can screw w/citys
Ok to start the ball rolling, I'm a very avid GM who likes to make vis. aids for my PCs. Not only does it give them something to get a handle on and leads to creative geographical thinking it presents ome interestring puzzles. Such as how does a GM deal with major landmarks i.e. the Renraku Arcology in Seattle, by saying that I mean, how much freedom should GM's have over the lay of the land. I want input because I would like to see a certain continuity between my pther GM's vis. pers. of different and major places.
I think you put this in the wrong forum... If the admins see it, they might move it for ya.
I think a GM has complete control over every aspect of his or her vision of the Shadowverse. Their world, their rules, their maps.
However, one can certainly collaborate both with other GM's and Canon information on such ideas and so on. One of the primary purposes of the source material is to provide all players with a point of reference. The cities laid out in the books are archetypes which can be tweaked, left alone, or completely wiped away. The ability to use a standard or agreed upon idea (or ideal) can make moving from one game or GM to another easier. But I don't see it as required - nor could I as my world is vasty different from one champaign to the next depending on the game I wish to run.
I think a GM has complete control over every aspect of his or her vision of the Shadowverse. Their world, their rules, their maps.
However, one can certainly collaborate both with other GM's and Canon information on such ideas and so on. One of the primary purposes of the source material is to provide all players with a point of reference. The cities laid out in the books are archetypes which can be tweaked, left alone, or completely wiped away. The ability to use a standard or agreed upon idea (or ideal) can make moving from one game or GM to another easier. But I don't see it as required - nor could I as my world is vasty different from one champaign to the next depending on the game I wish to run.
I voted for 'total control' but as a GM, I would tend not to mess with important land-marks. If I want to have different terrain, I will just move the game to Europe.
I try to give my players quite a few maps and aids as well. So far, I've been using mainly rural settings, so I can just point to a random area on mapquest or Topozone and look around till I get a topo map I like. For my Transys facility, I managed to track down present day maps of Caerleon and added my facility to the side of it. In an urban setting, I would probably just go with the given maps and change as needed. There's enough room that they don't really need to match up exactly with other GM's, unless you plan on merging your campaign with theirs at some point.
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) |
| I think you put this in the wrong forum... If the admins see it, they might move it for ya. I think a GM has complete control over every aspect of his or her vision of the Shadowverse. Their world, their rules, their maps. However, one can certainly collaborate both with other GM's and Canon information on such ideas and so on. One of the primary purposes of the source material is to provide all players with a point of reference. The cities laid out in the books are archetypes which can be tweaked, left alone, or completely wiped away. The ability to use a standard or agreed upon idea (or ideal) can make moving from one game or GM to another easier. But I don't see it as required - nor could I as my world is vasty different from one champaign to the next depending on the game I wish to run. |
In reference to moving it, how would I request that or notify them(the admins), I didn't realize which section I put it in.
Just send one of them a PM with an explanation and a request. They might even delete you last post and mine if you ask them.
GMs can do whatever the hell they want to their game world. Using the Shadowrun rules does not, in any way, obligate you to use any detail whatsoever from the official FASA/FanPro game world.
Yes, GMs have complete control. But that obvious issue aside, without very good reason, GMs generally should stick to stuff that's been laid out (don't go moving massive landmarks, for example; doing so is an instant hit to immersion). That's not to say it's an absolute rule, but it's certainly a general one.
And I like the idea of a Shadowrun cartography society. Would go a long way to making this more immersive.
And I like the idea of a Shadowrun cartography society. Would go a long way to making this more immersive.
I would enjoy getting involved in a cartography society as well. Although, I feel I could only be useful for the Greater Seattle/Washington State area.
I say change what you want, but do not disregard your group's expectations.
I say change what you want, but do not disregard your group's expectations.
Why would this question be better anywhere else? This is a great Shadowrun question.
GM's have complete flexability with their campaign world. That said, it would be good if most GMs play with Seattle as presented in the books, to make it easier for players to play in multiple games or move between campaigns.
GM's have complete flexability with their campaign world. That said, it would be good if most GMs play with Seattle as presented in the books, to make it easier for players to play in multiple games or move between campaigns.
| QUOTE |
| Why would this question be better anywhere else? This is a great Shadowrun question. |
It was in the Dragons subforum.
Speaking of maps, this web page has PDF files of Seattle maps, but I don't know if they're right yet...
I would love to help with a cartography society, but my knowledge of small midwestern towns probably wouldn't help much.
| QUOTE (Kanada Ten) | ||
It was in the Dragons subforum. Speaking of maps, this web page has PDF files of Seattle maps, but I don't know if they're right yet... |
What do you mean, "If they are right"? They ARE maps of the greater Seattle Area. They ARE blurry as madness. Some of them are very informative while others are just too blurry to even read. Zooming in just makes it worse. All in all though, I applaud the effort! If I had a scanning device, I would scan a Thomas Guide map and make the additions needed to represent anything SR.
The only problem with using our maps to represent SR Seattle is that the roads will all be the same, 60+ years later. My only problem with that is the road and highways around here are being upgraded and outright changed all the time. I have lived here for almost 30 years and some changes are still hard to accept. =)
Although, here is another way to look at it.. Since the creation of the game took place when this city WAS much different than it was today (The Kingdome being the biggest example) maybe we SHOULD use older maps and landmarks.
Either way, I have a Thomas Guide from 1989 and another from 1999 as well and, if needed, I could purchase a new 2004 edition. If this society is created, I would enjoy helping as much as I can.
| QUOTE (broho_pcp) |
| I would love to help with a cartography society, but my knowledge of small midwestern towns probably wouldn't help much. |
I have alway wanted to do a Web-book called
"The Shadows of Small Towns UCAS" or "Small Town Shadows"
I live in Delaware on what the local call the "Delmarva" pennisula. There is quite a bit this small area may offer in 2063 such as:
Wallops Island NASA Facility ( mention in year of comet i think)
A huge resort area in Ocean City MD
Lot a Agri-Corp Pontential.
and of course what are the odds on a Top Secret Lab located in eastern newbummblef*ck, No-where???
Any one game...
It depends. For a European game, I'll download something from the internet. After all, Brandenburger Tor ain't going anywhere anytime soon. For American games, it becomes a tad more questionable, as some stuff does change, e.g. Aztlan and Mexico City for one. That's one of the benefits of the books that have maps in the back, like Bug City, Germany, Tir Na Nog, etc.
Don
Don
Also, if there are any DS'ers that also happen to be architecture students, how about some input on HVAC locations, structures, etc.
I'm thinking that office buildings would be generally cookie-cutter, but I have some rather players that want to know where the ducts are for ventilation (for grenade rolling, etc.). I don't know anything about duct placement, so my guesstimates are wildly inaccurate.
I'm thinking that office buildings would be generally cookie-cutter, but I have some rather players that want to know where the ducts are for ventilation (for grenade rolling, etc.). I don't know anything about duct placement, so my guesstimates are wildly inaccurate.
| QUOTE (Nikoli) |
| I'm thinking that office buildings would be generally cookie-cutter, but I have some rather players that want to know where the ducts are for ventilation (for grenade rolling, etc.). I don't know anything about duct placement, so my guesstimates are wildly inaccurate. |
You have to use some creative license for big buildings. Can you imagine a group of Shadow-players sitting around a table with a set of blueprints.. It would take hours to get them to make up their minds!!!
Imagine the Blue prints for Renraku or the Aztecnology Pyramid in Seattle!
Who said the plans on file were accurate?
An excelent source for maps of any kind is university websites. If you do some searching around, you can get to the complete floorplans of their buildings. For many schools, it's public access. Two examples are Cal Poly, and Iowa state.
My team did a run in a building based off the science lab at iowa state last week, and we're hitting the business and archtecture buildings at Cal Poly next week.
My team did a run in a building based off the science lab at iowa state last week, and we're hitting the business and archtecture buildings at Cal Poly next week.
I tried that for u-dub, but all they have are low-res campus maps.
Eh? What about architecture? Nikoli, PM me with your Email and Ill send a few JPGs of pretty typical stuff. Might throw in my newly worked out stuffer shack just for use with food fight =)
GMs should definatly have full control. But, like most everyone else here, I'd say they should stick to cannon when they can unless there's a good reason. I don't use a whole lot of city maps in my games. I really liked the maps in the old Seattle Sourcebook and other than that, I generally use my knowledge/the players' knowledge of Seattle (since I just live on the other side of the state). On the occasion that I've run runs abroad, I usually don't worry much about stuff (i.e. make my own maps) since its only for a session or two usually.
@broho_pcp: You know, depending on where they are small midwestern towns might be really interesting in 2064. Lots of migration in the past from the Sioux (or into the Sioux, I guess) as well as all the border issues of the twitchy Sioux/UCAS /CAS borders. Those places have got to be interesting, I'd say. My hometown (Rock Springs, WY, a fairly small town) is right on I-80 just about exactly on the Ute/Sioux border and it has lots of oil and some other minerals right around it. I figure it's got to be hopping in 2064.
@broho_pcp: You know, depending on where they are small midwestern towns might be really interesting in 2064. Lots of migration in the past from the Sioux (or into the Sioux, I guess) as well as all the border issues of the twitchy Sioux/UCAS /CAS borders. Those places have got to be interesting, I'd say. My hometown (Rock Springs, WY, a fairly small town) is right on I-80 just about exactly on the Ute/Sioux border and it has lots of oil and some other minerals right around it. I figure it's got to be hopping in 2064.
You know, I've been looking at the national SurveySatelitte Pics for different areas, i.e. Sydney etc. and their pretty accurate. Maybe people could put those together (with license for new buildings etc.) and put them on a site i.e. blackjacks etc.) It would take alot of time though. Which I don't have much of... 
It would be interesting to see a cartography society formed but it would be hard... I personally am a junior in highschool but am taking all university courses so you can imagine what kind of time I have. 
It would be interesting to see a cartography society formed but it would be hard... I personally am a junior in highschool but am taking all university courses so you can imagine what kind of time I have.
The more the players can find their way around without consulting the GM, the better. The GM has total control, but he or she had better have a damn good reason for significant changes.
Correction: either a damn good reason or a very extensive map. The players should not be surprised by where the Arcology or the Azzie Pyramid are if they've lived in Seattle for more than a month.
~J
Correction: either a damn good reason or a very extensive map. The players should not be surprised by where the Arcology or the Azzie Pyramid are if they've lived in Seattle for more than a month.
~J
I concur with most above sentiments.
If you feal you must change something. Inform the players early. If you want to add a major landmark “the (GM name) tower” and it is going to be significant inform the players (or inform them so they will think it is important when it is not mhwawaw). Deleting eth arcolegy from existence would be silly for example.
Edward
If you feal you must change something. Inform the players early. If you want to add a major landmark “the (GM name) tower” and it is going to be significant inform the players (or inform them so they will think it is important when it is not mhwawaw). Deleting eth arcolegy from existence would be silly for example.
Edward
I hope we will someday see a large and detailed maps of the Seattle area (in pdf format) with both faked satellite pictures (eg. terraserver) and normal cartographic data (eg. mapquest).
That way the players have a much easier time planning their missions.
I know that there are a few maps out there but I'm talking about the extreme high resolution (a few hundreds meg ) type.
I want to be able to see people on the one with the satellite picture.
I think that those maps would not only be very handy for players and GMs alike (It makes sure you're talking about the same thing) but would also guaranty consitancy with al the core material and future releases of said material.
That way the players have a much easier time planning their missions.
I know that there are a few maps out there but I'm talking about the extreme high resolution (a few hundreds meg ) type.
I want to be able to see people on the one with the satellite picture.
I think that those maps would not only be very handy for players and GMs alike (It makes sure you're talking about the same thing) but would also guaranty consitancy with al the core material and future releases of said material.
ya but who's got that much time nonetheless that hardcore of a rig to do that?
GM is god. Plain and simple. Hell, I've had the Space Needle detroyed twice so far. Its almost a running joke with my group.
"Meet at Needle 3.0!"
"Meet at Needle 3.0!"
It's not exactly maps, but on this site (USGS) you can get satellite pictures of any of the major US cities, down to an amazing level of detail. When combined with some of the overlays they make available, you can use them almost like maps.
I was able to drill down from the map of the whole country to my state, my region, my neighborhood, and eventually see which cars were in the parking lot outside my house.
I was able to drill down from the map of the whole country to my state, my region, my neighborhood, and eventually see which cars were in the parking lot outside my house.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.