Hello there chummers...

I have never played a mage or shamman before and wanted to get a few pointers and some answers to questions.

1. Is there a good "how to" thread/website out there?

2. Why the optical vision mods? I know that they are required but I just don't see why. The cybereye has replaced the meat one; therefore, there is already an electronic-to-meat connection. What is one more step - eye to electronic vision mod to meat body? If nothing else, I guess that I am looking for an in-game reason.

3. If I cast a spell at Force 1 and it has no drain modifiers, does the spell have no drain or does it still have the minimum TN of 4?

4. Aspected vs. Full - I am still working on the background but this much I have: He is a former ganger (small amount of cyber) who lost people close to him and decided to go on the spiritual pilgramige (?) that he promised his grandfather he would go on (he is Native American). While out in the desert he his called by Coyote. This is all fine and well with him as he loves pranks and his grand-dad was a pre-Awakening shaman with an affinity to Coyote.

Looking for suggestions on aspected vs. full and background reasons.

5. Any other helpful info would be nice.

Thank you,

- theartthief

The minimum TN for drain is 2, not 4. Drain will never be less than 2 regardless of force. Vision mods are useful because spells can have target number modifiers based on cover and distance, just like gunshots.

I think he was asking why cybereyes have to have optical magnification to work, and why electronic magnification doesn't work.

The best in-game reason that I can give you is that you can't target something except by seeing the original image. Cybereyes themselves let you see just like normal eyes; there is no alteration of the image. Optical magnification simply enhances line-of-sight, like mirrors and fiber-optics can. Electronic magnification, however, is essentially replacing the image of the target with a zoomed-in digitized image. It is like looking through a camera sensor or security vidscreen. It is not the original image, so it can't be used for targetting.

I dislike aspected mages because they can't astrally project, which will save a future ton of karma by astral questing when learning more spells. Take invoking the first time you initiate, and you will spend your actions in combat directing your great form spirits and hardly casting a spell, but keeping your sorcery dice for spell defense.

Conceal is a form of invisibility you don't need to sustain, and Confuse either stops your opponent cold or adds the spirits force to his TN's. Those 2 powers alone are worth 5 build points at chargen, IMO.

As a GM, I've ruled that aspected mages can learn to atrally project as a Metamagic. You could always check to see if your GM would allow this. Otherwise, I vote for full magician.

1. Not that I'm aware of, though magic questions come up often. The rules aren't really as complex as they seem. The only things you really need to focus on are a) what you need to do to cast a spell and summon a spirit appropriate to your tradition, b) learn how to determine the Drain Code for your spells and summonings, and c) learn how Drain affects the character (which is basically just Stun Damage under most circumstances).

2. This is one of those "what the hell were they smoking?" rules. They say that since you paid for your eyes with Essence, you can use them as if they were real. And despite the fact that you're seeing an electronic image to begin with, you can only use Optical Magnification to magnify it. <blank stare> In any case, don't worry about arguing the point. Sure, it takes up more Essence but it's cheaper. Just ignore the bizarre rules and move on. It's too minor to nitpick to your GM about it at this point. It doesn't really matter, either, since as far as I know, Vision Magnification has no (or at least very limited) rules-based effect on spellcasting ability anyway. Go figure. And on those rare cases you do need to see a target who's more than a hundred or so meters away, just pick up a pair of binoculars. They're even cheaper and cost no Essence whatsoever.

3. The minimum TN for any test is 2. So no matter what your Drain is, you're always going to be resisting at leastt 2L Drain when you cast a spell. Note that it's still good to keep your Drain Power down as wound modifiers and other target number modifiers can raise it up, so that -1M Drain code you have will still only be 2M if you have a Serious Wound.

4. Honestly, for someone new to the rules, I'd recommend playing an aspected Sorcerer to get the hang of the rules. Once you have Sorcery down pat, try either an aspected Conjurer or a full Magician. If you go full Magician straight out of the bag, you'll likely get overwhelmed by all your options and rules you have to memorize.

As far as Hermetic vs. Shamanic goes, I prefer Hermetic simply because it suits my mindset better. They're also "easier" to play since you don't have to worry about quasi-religious adherence to a totem's philosophy, and using the Elemental Mage rules in Magic in the Shadows, you can still gain a nice bonus when using a particular group of spells and elemental spirits just like a Shaman.

The optical vs electronic difference only applies when you have not paid essence for it.

So as a sample, you can't cast spells through night vision goggles (which produce an 'electronic' image) but you can cast spells through optical binoculars.

Once you have paid essence for something, you can use it anyway (like the electronic magnification system in cyber-eyes).

If a mage is going to get and ware at all, cyber eyes are a must since any 'add on' low light or thermo system will produce an 'electronic' image that you can't cast spells through. (While optically based low light systems are possible, they are too big to wear on your head (think telescope)).

The aspected vs full debate is something of a toss-up. In part, it depends on how long you plan to play the character. The rules for an aspected character are simpler to pick up, but once you become familiar with them, you'll begin to miss the extra capability you would have had as a full mage.

In general, hermetics are a bit simpler to play. largely because their conjuring is simpler (no domains).

Also, shamanic modifiers (like owl) can effect your drain TNs.

Crusher Bob, as I look at Owl, I interpret that as a penalty to magical skill tests (like Conjuring and Sorcery), not to drain resistance, which is an attribute test. That's just my interpretation.

theartthief, regarding drain for a Force 1 spell. It will depend upon the spell.

Let's start with the most basic spell with the simplest drain code. Manabolt has a "+0(Damage Level)". If you cast a Force 6 Serious Damage Manabolt, you resist 3S drain. Here is how that is calculated: All spells have a base TN for drain resistance of half the force (round down). So a force 6 spell has a base drain TN of 3. The drain code for Manabolt indicates you add +0 to that, leaving it at 3. And the drain level is the same as the damage level you try to do to the opponent.

Consider Stun Ball, which is -1(DL+1) . The magician will have to roll 2 or better for his drain test for any force from 1 through 7 as long as he casts it at Serious base damage or less. Here's the calculation for Force 7: (Force / 2), round down, minus 1. That's 2 for the drain TN, and a Drain Level one higher than the damage he's trying to do to the target. So a 7S Stun Ball will have a 2D drain code. A 1S Stun Ball will have a -1D drain code, but you'll need eight 2s to resist it. If the drain code tries to be above Deadly, for each level it tries to go above deadly the TN is instead raised by 2. So a 7D stunball will have a 4D drain code, and a 3D stunball will have a 2D drain code. A 7S Stun Ball and a 3D Stun Ball both have the same drain code, 2D.

An example of a tough drain code is Increase Reflexes+3, with a +3D drain code. Cast at force 1 the drain is 3D. Cast at force 6, the drain is 6D. Ouch!

The worst drain code I've ever had on a character's spell was +2(DL+3), for a spell known at force 7. If he cast it at force 7, for light damage, he had to resist 5D drain. If he cast it at force 7, for deadly damage, he had to resist 11D drain. He's never done that. He has only cast that spell once in his career, at force 5, Light damage. The spell produces an ongoing hail storm in a circular area 180 meters in diameter. (If he withholds 1 die from his sorcery test, he can make it 182m in diamater. )

Are you sure that Drain Codes, being a unique type of "damage," are immune to wound penalties? I could have sworn there was a blurb somewhere that said otherwise. I just don't have my books handy at the moment to check.

I usually suggest taking a full mage/shaman to anyone, even 'n00bs'. It gives them a sample of all of the possible powers they could use if they went an aspected shaman of some form. It can take a few sessions to introduce them to the powers, after which the people I have played with have had no problem declaring that they're going to summon X spirit, have it conceal the team, use spell defense, project, ETC. They can then make informed decisions about what powers they want and what they can live without. If they were new and regretted going full mage then it's not a crime to let them redesign their character as a sorcerer/shamanist/conjurer/whatever.

I have a question that was bugging me when I was creating a paranoid nutter of a shaman...what's the point in taking Detect Enemies at a high force other than dispelling? It seems like the same thing as Improved Reflexes to me in that the target number is set and the Force seems to have no effect on the spell's functions. Am I just missing something?

The Abstruse One

You are forgetting the range, and the difficulty to resist.

Thank you muchly for the help.