Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 04:37 PM
Have been taken down, mostly still reachable through the way back machine . .
The PDF Files aren't though, for some reason or other . .
So, if anybody still has these PDF-Files, aside from Mr.D, I would like to complete the files i just downloaded from the way back machine . .
Because, seriously? The Ancient Files are THE ressource for shadowrun knowledge . . Or rather, were, as it is . .
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 04:41 PM
Can't they be hosted at Dumpshock? Like all the other long-dead but worthy pages?
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 04:43 PM
*shrugs*
you'd have to ask the man himself, as he decided to take them down . .
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 04:44 PM
Which PDFs were on that site? Odds are I have them.
CanRay
Jun 14 2011, 04:45 PM
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 04:47 PM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 06:44 PM)
Which PDFs were on that site? Odds are I have them.
Zero Sum Game/Gain
Dragons PDF
Those two at least.
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 14 2011, 06:45 PM)
jup ._.
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 05:01 PM
I'm suprised he didn't do this earler.
Sure, I have those.
DragonsFuck. My Zero Sum Gain file is corrupted, but
I found it on google docs. The internet never forgets. Can't seem to be able to download it though for some reason.
Zormal
Jun 14 2011, 05:16 PM
It would be great if the full site could be hosted on Dumpshock. The knowledge must be preserved for the coming generations
Sephiroth
Jun 14 2011, 05:16 PM
Has anyone tried PMing him to ask whether we could host them elsewhere? He clearly still pops in to Dumpshock on occasion.
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 05:18 PM
The Gaming Den maybe. Though they were hosted on Dumpshock, meaning they weren't eating his webspace, I assume he decided to take the site down for personal reasons, and won't put it back opn.
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 05:43 PM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 07:01 PM)
I'm suprised he didn't do this earler.
Sure, I have those.
DragonsFuck. My Zero Sum Gain file is corrupted, but
I found it on google docs. The internet never forgets. Can't seem to be able to download it though for some reason.
The MEGAS upload does not work.
Have to figure out how to download it from google docs <.<
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 05:45 PM
What the hell.
Brazilian_Shinobi
Jun 14 2011, 05:48 PM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 02:01 PM)
The internet never forgets.
Don't you mean the Resonance Realms?
Lansdren
Jun 14 2011, 05:50 PM
This is not happy news
understandable but not good
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 05:50 PM
No, it's Anonymous.
And forgive is out of the windows too . .
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 06:03 PM
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jun 14 2011, 07:48 PM)
Don't you mean the Resonance Realms?
Like this?
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 06:05 PM
*snickers* ^^
Faelan
Jun 14 2011, 06:08 PM
A sad day for Shadowrun. The Ancient Files have always been my easy go to reference source for SR and ED. Now I will have to go back to thumbing through piles of books.
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 06:11 PM
Wayback machine is our friend. Once something is on the internet it's near impossible to take it off.
Stahlseele
Jun 14 2011, 06:13 PM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 08:11 PM)
Wayback machine is our friend. Once something is on the internet it's near impossible to take it off.
Try and find the Birdman Weapon Systems . .
the .50BMG SMG and Pistol and the Nuke-Projectile for the Pistol . .
Gibbersan
Jun 14 2011, 07:26 PM
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Jun 14 2011, 12:43 PM)
Have to figure out how to download it from google docs <.<
I just emailed it to myself. That worked pretty well.
hermit
Jun 14 2011, 07:32 PM
QUOTE
Try and find the Birdman Weapon Systems
Uh, I might have them printed somewhere. DAMN that is long ago.
Gibbersan
Jun 14 2011, 09:06 PM
You can still find the cache of the pages on google. The only thing I haven't found of the main files is the ED Dragons PDF files.
Was able to get the .doc files and Off the Shelf and Grey Places from Googles html versions of the files.
Couldn't find a cache yet for Living Spellbooks.
I might have DLed them a long time ago. I'll have to dig through my stuff. Don't remember if I ever DLed the ancient history files.
CanRay
Jun 14 2011, 11:55 PM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 02:32 PM)
Uh, I might have them printed somewhere. DAMN that is long ago.
I kick myself for not having saved those years ago.
ggodo
Jun 15 2011, 12:59 AM
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
oooooooooooooooo. . .......... . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
MJBurrage
Jun 15 2011, 01:35 AM
Archiving material that has been freely available on the web is a legal grey area based on fair use, etc. This is what lets the Internet Archive function. As far as I can determine, everything AH posted prior to 2010 is there.
What about when the copyright holder (Ancient History in this case) deliberately removes the material? Can we legally continue to distribute it if we know the author withdrew it, or is it legally a bell that even the author cannot un-ring?
CanRay
Jun 15 2011, 01:50 AM
Let's throw some more confusion on that fire: Which laws matter? The ones where the author lives? The ones where the server is based? The ones where the user is based?
Redjack
Jun 15 2011, 02:04 AM
QUOTE (hermit @ Jun 14 2011, 11:41 AM)
Can't they be hosted at Dumpshock? Like all the other long-dead but worthy pages?
QUOTE (Zormal @ Jun 14 2011, 12:16 PM)
It would be great if the full site could be hosted on Dumpshock. The knowledge must be preserved for the coming generations
These were hosted by Dumpshock and removed at that author's request.
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 14 2011, 08:35 PM)
Archiving material that has been freely available on the web is a legal grey area based on fair use, etc. This is what lets the Internet Archive function. As far as I can determine, everything AH posted prior to 2010 is there.
What about when the copyright holder (Ancient History in this case) deliberately removes the material? Can we legally continue to distribute it if we know the author withdrew it, or is it legally a bell that even the author cannot un-ring?
Thanks to the Mickey Mouse law (ergo Copyright laws bought and paid for by lobbyists for Disney) Copyright is crazy long and not very grey.
QUOTE (http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-duration.html)
As a general rule, for works created after January 1, 1978, copyright protection lasts for the life of the author plus an additional 70 years. For an anonymous work, a pseudonymous work, or a work made for hire, the copyright endures for a term of 95 years from the year of its first publication or a term of 120 years from the year of its creation, whichever expires first.
MJBurrage
Jun 15 2011, 03:02 AM
There is no doubt that copyright belongs to Ancient History until 70 years after his death. Commercialization would be complicated by derivative copyright issues due to the use of the Shadowrun IP.
However if that always meant no use without express permission, than the Internet Archive could not exist legally.
So there is some fair use exemption for materials that were made available for free by their copyright holder.
How is that fair use effected by deliberate withdrawal of the original site?
Tiralee
Jun 15 2011, 03:03 AM
Well....Fuck.
"If only" is the most hateful and soulless phrase in human language, but yeah, kicking myself that I didn't grab everything wholesale (yes, for personal use and reference, no way would I rip a fellow's work without proper compensation). The annotated works helped my players and myself get through soo much lore, enough that they could make connection that were half-way supported by the canon.
-Tir.
Redjack
Jun 15 2011, 03:23 AM
QUOTE (MJBurrage @ Jun 14 2011, 10:02 PM)
How is that fair use effected by deliberate withdrawal of the original site?
My only real points are that (1) it was removed at AH's request and (2) any
additional sharing facilitated from Dumpshock would be interpreted by Dumpshock's staff as a violation of AH's copyright... unless he were to post an open license to share or the like. ergo: My interpretation of being asked to remove content is equal to removal of copyright.
KCKitsune
Jun 15 2011, 03:52 AM
I think I have all of Ancient's files downloaded. I just checked properties of the folder and it was 43 files and 5.22 MB in size. I can zip up what I have and send it to you. Just give me a day or two to get send it out. If you're interested then PM me with your email address.
MJBurrage
Jun 15 2011, 04:05 AM
QUOTE (Redjack @ Jun 14 2011, 10:23 PM)
My only real points are that (1) it was removed at AH's request and (2) any additional sharing facilitated from Dumpshock would be interpreted by Dumpshock's staff as a violation of AH's copyright... unless he were to post an open license to share or the like. ergo: My interpretation of being asked to remove content is equal to removal of copyright.
I was not suggesting that Dumpshock host the material without AH's consent.
I was asking if anyone knew the actual legalities of someone else hosting or releasing the material that is not already in the Internet Archive.
I wouldn't do it, since I personally feel it would go against his newly implied intent. But what about similar cases, where the information just vanishes without public explanation?
Redjack
Jun 15 2011, 07:14 AM
I wasn't inferring anything of anyone, rather trying to convey that we were attempting to respect AH's wishes. The failing of written communication is the subtly of expression and gesture.
The copyright quote was peripheral. Personally, I think copyright laws have become ludicrous to the point of insanity. In time,
Project Gutenberg will have nothing to do... and lets not even start on intellectual property law or the sheer stupidity known as
software patents.
Ancient History
Jun 15 2011, 05:20 PM
Hoka-hey, Shadowkids. Uncle Ancient here.
The Ancient Files has served it's time...and probably a while past that. I did not update it much after I became a freelancer, and since my divorce from Shadowrun, have no will to try. So the files were aging, out of date, neglected...and riddled with the errors and bad jokes of 5+ years of hand-coding and self-editing. There are enough dinosaurs crowding the web that no-one needs one more orphaned site, losing relevance with each PDF release. Best to have a clean end to things.
For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why - there's a complete archive of it up on rapidshare.
https://rapidshare.com/files/3503920800/ancientfiles.tgzAs for me, I'll see y'all on
http://the-unpublishable.com
Redjack
Jun 15 2011, 05:28 PM
Thanks for clearing that up!
Neurosis
Jun 15 2011, 06:35 PM
QUOTE (Faelan @ Jun 14 2011, 01:08 PM)
A sad day for Shadowrun. The Ancient Files have always been my easy go to reference source for SR and ED. Now I will have to go back to thumbing through piles of books.
I so, so, so, so, agree. This is a sad day for Shadowrun.
Stahlseele
Jun 15 2011, 06:48 PM
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 15 2011, 07:20 PM)
Hoka-hey, Shadowkids. Uncle Ancient here.
The Ancient Files has served it's time...and probably a while past that. I did not update it much after I became a freelancer, and since my divorce from Shadowrun, have no will to try. So the files were aging, out of date, neglected...and riddled with the errors and bad jokes of 5+ years of hand-coding and self-editing. There are enough dinosaurs crowding the web that no-one needs one more orphaned site, losing relevance with each PDF release. Best to have a clean end to things.
For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why - there's a complete archive of it up on rapidshare.
https://rapidshare.com/files/3503920800/ancientfiles.tgzAs for me, I'll see y'all on
http://the-unpublishable.comIt's not really about needing.
It's about wanting funny stuff that's relevant to our interests!
Also, about convenience, if you have something like these files and don't need to cross reference several books <.<
KCKitsune
Jun 15 2011, 08:21 PM
I wonder how many of the files were missing from my archive.
Also, my time as an archivist is sadly over.
Wakshaani
Jun 15 2011, 10:13 PM
I understand, AH, but it makes me sad inside. It's like when Captain Kangaroo went off the air. It just won't be the same without the files up and running.
We'll try to carry on, and make you proud of what the future holds.
*salutes*
Sengir
Jun 15 2011, 10:48 PM
QUOTE (Ancient History @ Jun 15 2011, 06:20 PM)
For those that absolutely need the site - though I can scarce imagine why
Because information on the old books remains perfectly valid today, and those classic books are a fascinating read. Maybe one or two of your speculations have been superseded if a plot was revisited, but the summaries and literature references can't really age
otakusensei
Jun 16 2011, 01:34 AM
My commlink still says it's 2072. I was going to update it, but the remote node has been compromised by some unscrupulous individuals bent on filling my AR with garbage data.
longbowrocks
Jun 16 2011, 02:11 AM
To download Zero Sum Gain:
- Go to hermits link.
- Button in upper right labelled "Save in Google Docs". Click it.
- Go to your google account.
- See the "Gmail" tab in the extreme upper left corner of the page? "Documents" is two tabs to the right of that. Click "Documents".
- Mouse over "ZeroSumGain.pdf". "Actions" appears to the right of the name. Click "Actions"->"Dowload"
- ???
- Profit.
I hope this was helpful.
Stahlseele
Jun 16 2011, 09:45 AM
It was, but i had already simply emailed me the document to my outlook account and saved it from there.
And then i downloaded the Ancient History archive from rapidshit too ^^
Ascalaphus
Jun 16 2011, 12:40 PM
QUOTE (longbowrocks @ Jun 16 2011, 03:11 AM)
To download Zero Sum Gain:
- Go to hermits link.
- Button in upper right labelled "Save in Google Docs". Click it.
- Go to your google account.
- See the "Gmail" tab in the extreme upper left corner of the page? "Documents" is two tabs to the right of that. Click "Documents".
- Mouse over "ZeroSumGain.pdf". "Actions" appears to the right of the name. Click "Actions"->"Dowload"
- ???
- Profit.
I hope this was helpful.
I'm a bit confused about the penultimate step, but I seem to've got it right
Prime Mover
Jun 16 2011, 02:06 PM
Thanks for the file share.
I think you underestimate the value of the info you shared. The cross reference correlations alone are worth their weight in gold.
But then maybe I'm just an old school SR
junkie. Heck I still look over the
http://www.intercom.net/user/logan1/bkk.htm once inawhile.
CanRay
Jun 16 2011, 03:39 PM
QUOTE (Prime Mover @ Jun 16 2011, 09:06 AM)
I think you underestimate the value of the info you shared. The cross reference correlations alone are worth their weight in gold.
Um, they weigh in at electrons...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jun 16 2011, 03:49 PM
QUOTE (CanRay @ Jun 16 2011, 08:39 AM)
Um, they weigh in at electrons...
Ummm... But isn't Gold made up of Electrons (and Protons and Neutrons)?
Brazilian_Shinobi
Jun 16 2011, 07:58 PM
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jun 16 2011, 12:49 PM)
Ummm... But isn't Gold made up of Electrons (and Protons and Neutrons)?
Yeah, but those are measured in moles.
Now, if you say they worth their amount of electrons in mole, then yeah, it could be a lot of money.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
Jun 16 2011, 08:09 PM
QUOTE (Brazilian_Shinobi @ Jun 16 2011, 12:58 PM)
Yeah, but those are measured in moles.
Now, if you say they worth their amount of electrons in mole, then yeah, it could be a lot of money.
Heh... Interesting indeed...
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