Eye Recording Unit: Check
Ear Recording Unit: Check
Olfactory Booster: Check
Taste Booster: Check

I'm stumped. How do I record tactile information? BTLs have a tactile component (tripchips,, pg 259, SR4A). My closest guess is the Simrig (preferably implanted). Is that correct and am I correct in the understanding that if I want to record BTLs, I need all 5 (or something that includes them such as cybereyes for the eye recording unit)?

The simrig is, indeed for recording tactile. So far I've only taken it for character fluff, though partly because the GM retired my character (Mr. Tso) early, on account of usefulness to people above the campaign's paygrade

Nah. Simrig should do all of that. You only really need the other toys for the enhanced capability they give. If all you want to do is record in all 5 senses, simrig is the way to go.

In fact, the simrig records significantly more than 5 senses, if you choose. As always, trodes (which simrig is a special version of) does it better.

Really? AFB, but IIRC trodes simply provide a DNI between the brain and electronic devices. I.e. they don't pick up on sensory input and emotional state the way a simrig can. That is to say, with trodes you can tell another node that you can see a car, say, but the node won't have any information besides what you consciously tell it, whilst a simrig will record a 'tape' of your vision. Is that not the case?

That's my interpretation too.

Mind, there are external simrigs too.

I can't find anywhere where Trodes record simsense data. I see where it says trodes "enables the wearer to experience simsense and are used with a sim module" (328 sr4a). I see where a simrig contains a sim module and a simrig records data and is an advanced version of trodes (same page). So, looking at that it seems trodes are just the DNI, the sim module is the interpreter, and the simrig serves as DNI, interpreter, and recorder (as it contains trodes, sim module, and a way to record).

I'm forced to conclude from the description of DNI on pg 217 that an implanted Simrig serves as DNI, meaning no need for a datajack.

I need to find a good solid description of Simrigs. I think the game is assuming I know what the dang thing is.

A sim module allows you to experience simsense. A simrig also allows you to record your experiences into simsense.

Trodes or a datajack connect an external sim module or external simrig to your brain.

As every cyberware contains a DNI and a simrig also contains a sim module, I think this is all you need.
You'd need an extra DNI for external hardware only.

Yes: you need an extra DNI (datajack, trodes) if you use an external SimRig/Module. Keep in mind that the internal simrig costs a whopping 1 Essence for doing... nothing of game shattering power...

In fact, that's what datajacks are really good for. To have an interface with external equipment controlable by DNI. They are much less obvious than trodes (at least for standard trodes, not nanite trode paste), easier to carry and permanent. And don't forget the whole "I put an electrical charged plug into my head to control this device" style factor. If you equip the jack with skinlink you can also bypass the whole mess with glass fibre cables.

Personally I think cables are much cooler than skinlink or trodes. In fact, if the GM starts suggesting cables are unreliable, call his bluff on the pure handwavium that makes trodes work while running around or while in a jamming field, or a skinlink resistant to tasers and acid rain conditions..

Both have their pros and cons. Just a matter of taste and effectivity compared to the situation. I personally like to use equip like simrigs etc being directly plugged into the jack. And yes that's an idea I stole from GitS without hesitation.

Touch LInk, pg 335, SR4

VERY easily overlooked bit of tech, gives you the final sense for Absolute Recording. Not terribly useful outside of A) porn or B) VR sans gloves, but, hey, it exists.

B) does not apply. Without a sim-module or simrig there is no VR. Therefore you don't need gloves for tactile input in VR.

SR4A pg 328

I personally have a hard time thinking that an advanced version of the trode net needs a trode net.

The Simrig takes .5 essence according to pg 342 of SR4A, not 1 essence. Since the datajack, eye recording unit, and ear recording unit all cost .1 each and it does the recording function of the olfactory and taste booster (.2 essence each) I'll live with .5 essence for RP/Character purposes. Beats the .7 without tactile that I was going to need. Sure, it's not game shattering power, but that's not my goal.

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Note that I cannot reconcile these two rules:
SR4A 328:SR4A 220:

Aerospider, suoq, I specifically said 'simrig', and 'trodes, *in their incarnation as simrig*'.

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Simrig (external) and trodes are both unquestionably DNI, requiring no datajack/etc.

Touch Link is an *input* only. It doesn't send tactile data out. This is stupid, because a sim module of any kind already does this.

Don't the Scan Gloves from Spy Games let you record tactile? They give a bonus to tactile perception checks

Simrig - More questions.

Any reason it can't be modified for BTL/Hot sim? It appears that there is no option for a Hot Sim/BTL implanted Simrig. Annoying that.

Aha, now you have the answer to your earlier question! "Implanted sim-modules can also be bought as add-ons for simrigs and implanted commlinks"… so you can add a Hot one.

squee_nabob, wth is Spy Games? I can't keep up with the splatcreep. In that case, though, it's just the gloves recording what *they* touch (like a camera or mic), not a tactile sense channel from your brain.

Ah. You have shown me the way. Thank you. That also explains the hot sim on the combat mage with the Simrig in the sample characters. No. Wait. Nothing I can think of explains a hot sim on a combat mage with a Simrig. I have NO CLUE why a combat mage wants a simrig with a hot sim sim module. I can barely justify my own reasons for wanting a simrig. I can think of a dozen reasons dermal plating would be more effective. But the character is telling me he needs a simrig. Maybe it's the same with the combat mage.

Maybe he wants to become famous as the next Karl Kombatmage?



Anyway, it appears simrig's become cheaper (or I just misremember). As for the DNI: I think the internal one already has DNI (it's internal, after all), but the external one needs some DNI plugin from another device.

Again, no. Simrig is trodes+. Trodes are DNI. It's crazy to think something that can read all your senses and emotions, *and* is based on DNI… can't do basic DNI.

I wonder how it would work, to record how you feel using a max overcast elemental spell? And then having your hacker put it in the sim mod/rig of an opposing NPC, and play it on continuous?

If you look at his qualities he has a mild addiction to simsense. He wants his BTLs and he is going to get them come hell or high water.

As for a simrig... maybe he pays for his BTLs by recording his runs and handing that to his BTL dealer.



***Edit***

Quick question for all of you. If I wanted to have a SIM module in my cyber commlink (which is in my lower cyber leg) would it take up capacity or would it be part of the commlink?

Also how big is a simrig? Can I have it plugged into the datajack in my cyberhand and have it not look out of place?

Maybe it's because I don't have a clue what a simrig or sim module looks like, that I think it needs trodes or datajack, because those are and look like DNIs. I expect a sim module to be just a box with chips in it.

You mean like commlinks are made with the AR in mind yet need either a bunch of peripherals OR a sim module / simrig to be operational? and don't tell me that they made commlinks to be used with small screens on them - we all know that there is at least the 2nd if not 3rd generation of links on the market by which time standard modes to use those links are pretty clear. I still don't get why commlinks are not fused with sim modules by now.

Perhaps someone can correct me on this, but it seems to me that electronic communications can be sent in (or is it attached to?) any form of simsense. The phone call you're about to receive could be a melodic birdsong in your ear or an itch in your joy division. Logging on to a node could feel like walking through a door or getting hit by a truck. Presumably the reason people don't use unpleasant sensations in their equipment's communications is because they'll lose friends quickly, but it would also explain why perhaps a lot of the customer base has little or no interest in simsense 24/7.

Of course, given the massive price difference between a sim module and the commlink you're going to attach it to it would make sense for just about all 'links to come with one as standard.

From SR4A's description

The Simrig (as I read it) doesn't need trodes or a sim module because it's a device that already contains trodes and a sim module.

It's the Best Buy version. Everything is already included and unlike the pieces parts that can be easily modified (sim module modified for hot sim) it's pretty much "as-is".

The whole point of the commlink seems to be that you pick which User Interface Peripherals you want to use, going from minimal (none) to full blown (hot sim simrig), but there sees to be a wide enough variety of "plug and play" options that it makes sense. It handles processing power and signal and networking. You plug and play the PAN.

Hmm, that clarifies it a bit yeah.

It also explains the use of built-in simrigs for say, pornstars. After all, you experience sex quite differently if you're both wearing trode nets (like kissing with bracers, but more so...)

Not exactly. They give a bonus in detecting surface changes. This change can be both texture and color. I suspect it picks up texture changes based on how the pattern of shadows change or something. This largely based on the fluff claim that it can read braille tho. Still, i wonder if i would allow the bonus if one is looking for the edge of a hidden door. Or perhaps read the imprint of a removed note on the next page of the pad.

A earlier edition description of a security rigger (spider) used examples like doors opening and closing like a slight brush of wind on ones arm, and a alarm like a burning sensation.

This is supposedly also what makes VR hacking, especially when using a reality filter, so effective. The data between the hackers comlink and the target node can be translated into more then visual and audio cues. Earlier editions had deckers claim they could feel the actual flow of data when running hot sim. Perhaps allowing one to "dodge" a incoming attack because one can feel the first signs on the flow before one is consciously aware of it, a bit like ducking before one is sure what the sound behind ones back was. I think earlier editions had people with wired reflexes require a composure text unless they had a cutoff switch implanted (with the issue that one needed to turn it on before it gave any bonus in combat). If one failed one could perhaps ending up pulling a gun on the waiter because he showed up suddenly.

My take on why VR is so good is that you could "see" in more than three dimensions, allowing you to study data constructs much faster and keeping the big picture in sight.

Digging back a bit, since Yerameyahu answered this about the module itself, not the rig:



I'd think the reason this is, is because you can't record simsense at a BTL level, simply because real input can't be better-than-real. Amping the recording up to that level is supposed to be a job for a studio engineer. Of course, a hot module will make it be able to play BTLs fine.

I wonder though, Mr Perceptive's raw input might well be breaching into BTL levels...
Leading up to all sorts of silliness, as half the team suddenly keeps asking him for a simrig feed.

Oh, interesting take. I didn't even consider the idea of 'hot sim/BTL recording'. I assumed he meant hot sim mod for the simrig's built-in sim module, yes… because AFAIK there is no such thing as hot sim recording in the game.

There are rules for modifying a sim module to feature hot sim, a simrig has a sim module built in... why would it be so difficult to crank that one up?
Also, although I don't like it, the FAQ states that it can be done. There are no rules against it, either. Sounds reasonable enough for a GM to allow it, right?

Given how cheap 'replacement' with a hot sim module is, no, there's no reason not to allow it. I don't think anyone's too worried about it either way.