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Bushw4cker
I'm helping player make Technomancer, He's a master of Forgery and a Jack of all Trades with the ability to compile Tutor Sprites. He has an ear for Accents and has a multiple Fake SINs and Licenses. I need some ideas on additional Licenses that would be available in the Sixth World. I'd appreciate feedback on the character (He does not want to Min/Max), and yes I'm aware he has no complex forms, he's the Technomancer Equivalent to a Conjurer. Thanks


Attributes (230BP) Rating
Body 2
Agility 4
Reaction 4
Strength 2
Charisma 4
Intuition 5
Logic 4
Willpower 2
Edge 2
Essence 6
Resonance 5
Initiative 9
Initiative Passes 1

Positive Qualities (20BP)
Guts 5
Technomancer 5
Paragon 5
First Impression 5

Negative Qualities (35BP)
Liar 5
In Debt 10
Thrillseeker 5
Mild Media Junkie 5
Wanted (Lone Star) 10

Skills (164BP) Rating
Forgery 6
Electronics Group 2
Cracking Group 2
Influence Group 4
Compiling 3
Registering 3
Disguise 2
Perception 3
Pistols 2
Unarmed Combat 2

Knowledge Skills (27 Free) Rating
Evaluate Goods 4
Safe Houses 2
Local Area Knowledge 2
Criminal Organizations 2
Databases 4
Security Design 2
Security Procedures 2
SOTA Identification Technology 4

Language Skills (6BP) Rating
English N
Iconography 2
Japanese 2
Accents 6

Armor (600¥)
Armor Vest

Weapons (1050¥)
Yamaha Pulsar w/ 6 extra darts
Fichetti Security 600 w/ 2 clips regular ammo and concealable holster
Shock Glove

Commlink (18800¥)
Novatech Airware w/ Custom OS (4850¥)
Response-3 System-3
Signal-3 Firewall-6
Resident Program (Analyze-6)
Resident Program (Encrypt-6)
ARC-Terminate Connection
Common Use Programs (3450¥)
*Analyze-6 Command-3 *Encrypt-6
Browse-3 *Edit-6 Scan-3
* (Optimization-3, Ergonomic) Options
Hacking Programs (10500¥)
Exploit-3 Defuse-3 Stealth-3
Decrypt-3 ECCM-3 Track-3
Spoof-3

Technomancer
Stream (Singularitarian)
Sprites: Courier, Crack, Data, Tutor, and Tank
Fading: Logic + Resonance
Paragon (Alias)
Advantages: +2 dice to Spoof Tests, + 1 die for Crack Sprites
Disadvantages: Cannot abide to pay for Lifestyle.

Biological Node
Response-5 Signal-2
System-4 Firewall-2
Biofeedback Filter-4
VR Matrix Initiative-11
VR Matrix IP-3

Gear (34550¥) HAVE NOT SPENT ALL OF NUYEN, NEED MORE IDEAS!!
Fake SIN (Rating 4) Rudolf Ludwig Karl Virchow
Fake SIN (Rating 3) Austin Powers
Fake SIN (Rating 3) Ettore Boiardi
Fake SIN (Rating 3) Dale Earnhart
Fake SIN (Rating 3) Steve Erwin
Fake License (Rating 4) Lonestar Detective
Fake License (Rating 4) Building Inspector
Fake License (Rating 4) Paranormal Hunting
Forgery Kit
Hardware Kit
50m of Duct Tape
Elf Ears

Contacts (6BP) Type Location Connection Loyalty
Smiley Fixer Downtown Seattle 4 2
Kenji Yakuza Redmound Barrens 3 1
Bushw4cker
Fake License (Rating 6) Gangster of Love
Magus
So you have bought the Cracking Group and Computer Group twice? As a Technomancer you learn the TM version of those skills, not the mundane version. If you want to use Non TM agents and programs you will have to buy those skill twice

SR4A P 239
Technomancer Skills
Aside from the Resonance skills that technomancers use to handle
sprites (p. 240), technomancers use the same skills common to hackers:
Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Hardware, and Software. The way technomancers use these skills, however,
is vastly different from the way non-technomancers use them.
Technomancers exercise these skills through mental gymnastics and
an intuitive feel for the functioning of the machine world; they do
not learn to use electronics so much as they learn to make devices and
software do what they want.
As a result, the technomancer versions of these skills are fundamentally
different from the standard versions. In game terms, technomancers
may never teach these skills to non-technomancers, nor are
the technomancer skill versions available as skillsofts. Technomancers
may learn the “normal” versions of these skills separately (or use
normal skillsofts),
but they often find the normal way of doing things
to be hopelessly clumsy and backward.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Magus @ Jul 17 2011, 07:51 AM) *
So you have bought the Cracking Group and Computer Group twice? As a Technomancer you learn the TM version of those skills, not the mundane version. If you want to use Non TM agents and programs you will have to buy those skill twice

SR4A P 239
Technomancer Skills
Aside from the Resonance skills that technomancers use to handle
sprites (p. 240), technomancers use the same skills common to hackers:
Computer, Cybercombat, Data Search, Electronic Warfare, Hacking, Hardware, and Software. The way technomancers use these skills, however,
is vastly different from the way non-technomancers use them.
Technomancers exercise these skills through mental gymnastics and
an intuitive feel for the functioning of the machine world; they do
not learn to use electronics so much as they learn to make devices and
software do what they want.
As a result, the technomancer versions of these skills are fundamentally
different from the standard versions. In game terms, technomancers
may never teach these skills to non-technomancers, nor are
the technomancer skill versions available as skillsofts. Technomancers
may learn the “normal” versions of these skills separately (or use
normal skillsofts),
but they often find the normal way of doing things
to be hopelessly clumsy and backward.


It would be the Mundane Version of the skills, he uses his Technomancer abilities for Compiling and Registering Sprites Only. But your post raises a good question, does The Paragon bonus apply to Mundane Spoofing? Realistically I think most Technomancers would have both sets of skills Computer (Technomancer) Computer (Mundane), since Technomancers are a relatively recent phenomenon.
Irion
I am not even sure it can work this way, because you have to decide if you use your natural connection to the matrix or go with trodes etc.
If you go with trodes, I am not sure if you are able to summon or bind sprites...

Well, I do not know if it is really a good idea to go "sprites only" for a technomancer...
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Irion @ Jul 17 2011, 08:40 AM) *
I am not even sure it can work this way, because you have to decide if you use your natural connection to the matrix or go with trodes etc.
If you go with trodes, I am not sure if you are able to summon or bind sprites...

Well, I do not know if it is really a good idea to go "sprites only" for a technomancer...


You could subscribe you Commlink to you Biological Node
Magus
I would rule it as a "No" the paragon benefits would only apply to your Technomantic abilities. As a TM I think you would look upon Mundane Hacking as inferior and old fashioned. But as I stated above you have to purchase the Skills and Skill Groups twice which is another drain on building a TM. If you dont then you cannot use your TM gifts of cracking, you can use your Compiling/Registering skills you bought though.
Bushw4cker
My Campaign is set in 2069 and Technomancers are just starting to come out
Magus
Hmm that could work then, so when the time comes when he wants to Thread he is going to have to spend Karma to learn that then.

Also do forget the main bonus in threading - it is not an action.
Bushw4cker
How could Hardware Skill be both a Technomancer and Mundane Skill? That doesn't make sense. Whats different about how a Technomancer or Mundane puts together a piece of hardware?
Magus
Could not tell you, maybe a TM sees the Hardware at a fundamentally different level. Like a molecular way or something, but as it states by RAW the skills of a TM are 'different' than that of a mundane hacker and must be purchased separately. :: shrugs::
Bushw4cker
Would you allow a discount on a technomancer that buys Electronics and Cracking group skills when he already possesses the mundane versions.
Magus
I am a one of those rabid followers of the literal print of sourcebooks. I take RAW as the holy writ, so no I would not allow any discounts. BUT this is YOUR game, so anything goes. I try not to impose my opinions and biases on others. So if it flows for you go for it. You are the ultimate master of your world! smile.gif
Merlin
In my games there is no difference between this 2 types of skills. It is just dump to have 2 skills that do the same.
At game start techonmancers are compared to a hacker really weak. Unless they are high specialized to one task.
In this case they only would buy 1 of the to skills that do the same.
This rule just makes the weak allround Technomancers even weaker and if you play a Techonamncer you will be never something other than only a Technomancer. A mundan hacker can become an Combat Hacker/Sam etc.
Mardrax
I see no reason a paragon bonus wouldn't apply to mundane electronics/cracking skills from a RAW standpoint.

There's nothing preventing a Technomancer from accesing his comlink through a DNI interface while using his bionode's wireless for other things. Just keep in mind they're different devices.

Group skills for mundane and technomancer-based versions of the tech-skills aren't described that I know of, but I'd rule it as not a problem to count the techno-versions as a new group skill and have the two co-exist. It's bad enough to have to buy them twice already. It makes sense, but it hurts bad.
Miri
Just remember.. if you are going to make the skills two different paths so to speak... then anything coded by a Technomancer with his technomancer based software coding skills.. is going to be totally alien to the traditional coder.
Magus
It even gets weirder if you use the optional rule in Unwired for the Resonace Difference. That one is fun and really gives Mancers a boost.
Unwired p 137
Optional Rule:
The Resonance Difference

The way that technomancers, complex forms,
and sprites operate—using Resonance—is far different
from how standard personas, programs, and agents
work. For simplicity and flow, these are often treated
the same in terms of game mechanics, and, indeed,
this makes some practical sense. For example, complex
forms must interact with nodes and standard
Matrix programs, and so the complex forms would
need to “speak the same language” in terms of input/
output and be recognized as legitimate “software,”
otherwise there would be problems.
Nevertheless, complex forms and sprites are not
composed of code in the normal sense, and so it is
conceivable that certain actions made against them
might not get the same results as they would against
typical software. This optional rule provides for this,
but gamemasters should be aware that this gives
technomancers a certain edge over hackers, and so
should apply it careful. Alternately, these options
could be handled as echoes.
Attack Protection
Normal Attack programs are less effective against
technomancers and sprites, as the code faults such
software normally exploits are simply not there. Apply
a +2 dice pool modifier to the Defense Test against
such attacks.
Difficult to Analyze
Though megacorps and security companies have
made great inroads in identifying technomancers,
complex forms, sprites, and even echoes, the nature of
Resonance still makes each of these harder to identify—
they simply don’t match regular code patterns, and the
look of a complex form used by one technomancer looks
completely different when wielded by a technomancer
from a different stream. Increase the threshold for
Matrix Perception Tests against technomancers, complex
forms, sprites, echoes, and widgets by 1.
Immunity to Crashing
Under this rule, the normal routines and tricks
that make software vulnerable to crashing do not
exist in Resonance-fueled complex forms. This makes
technomancer complex forms immune to crashing,
unless the Crash action is initiated by a technomancer
or sprite. Technomancers and sprites may still crash
the programs of regular Matrix users.
Immunity to Defusing
For the same reasons, A Data Bomb created by
complex form cannot be disarmed by a normal Defuse
program, though it may be disarmed by a Defuse
complex form.
Immunity to Nuke
The system resources targeted by normal Nuke
programs do not exist for technomancers and sprites,
so they are immune to their effect.
Invisible Node
Being a construct of Resonance, the biological
node is completely immune to standard scanning
attempts to detect a wireless node, unless a technomancer
or sprite is doing the scanning. In this
model, technomancers may run their nodes in active,
passive, or hidden mode in relation to other
technomancers and sprites.
Resonance Encryption
The Encrypt complex form creates a Resonance
code that is simply unbreakable to normal Decrypt
programs. The only way to break this code is with a
Decrypt complex form.
Superior Trace
The Track complex form is immune to the
confusing signals sent by a Spoof program when a
hacker attempts to redirect a trace (p. 224, SR4). Only
a Redirect Trace performed with a Spoof complex form
can throw the technomancer or sprite off the trail.
Mardrax
QUOTE (Miri @ Jul 18 2011, 05:49 AM) *
Just remember.. if you are going to make the skills two different paths so to speak... then anything coded by a Technomancer with his technomancer based software coding skills.. is going to be totally alien to the traditional coder.

Indeed, because when a technomancer uses his Software skill to 'code' things, it's called 'threading' wink.gif If he wants to code actual programs on an actual machine, he'll need the actual physical skill.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Jul 17 2011, 10:25 PM) *
Indeed, because when a technomancer uses his Software skill to 'code' things, it's called 'threading' wink.gif If he wants to code actual programs on an actual machine, he'll need the actual physical skill.


Threading is actually a Specialty of Software, not the software skill itself. A Technomancer can code software that a Hacker can use, he (the hacker) just will not understand the underlying "Code", nor will he be able to modify it. wobble.gif
Mardrax
Ah. I've actually always been far too restrictive on these things compared to the RAW on it. Learn something new every day. Disregard that last comment nyahnyah.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Mardrax @ Jul 18 2011, 07:27 AM) *
Ah. I've actually always been far too restrictive on these things compared to the RAW on it. Learn something new every day. Disregard that last comment nyahnyah.gif


No Worries... smile.gif
Ryu
QUOTE (Magus @ Jul 17 2011, 10:47 AM) *
I would rule it as a "No" the paragon benefits would only apply to your Technomantic abilities. As a TM I think you would look upon Mundane Hacking as inferior and old fashioned. But as I stated above you have to purchase the Skills and Skill Groups twice which is another drain on building a TM. If you dont then you cannot use your TM gifts of cracking, you can use your Compiling/Registering skills you bought though.

I would rule yes. The Paragon bonus does not specify either way, but having a "gut feeling" for spoofing (the +2 from the Paragon) would be a weak version of making it all happen by the power of your mind (using a complex form). Opting out of complex forms means opting out of threading. Already not a wise move. IMO requiring another skillset is to much.
Irion
QUOTE
Threading is actually a Specialty of Software, not the software skill itself.

Which is basiclly true, but every GM will turn red, if you offer him a character sheed:
Software(threading)...
Ryu
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 17 2011, 09:22 AM) *
I'm helping player make Technomancer, He's a master of Forgery and a Jack of all Trades with the ability to compile Tutor Sprites. He has an ear for Accents and has a multiple Fake SINs and Licenses. I need some ideas on additional Licenses that would be available in the Sixth World. I'd appreciate feedback on the character (He does not want to Min/Max), and yes I'm aware he has no complex forms, he's the Technomancer Equivalent to a Conjurer. Thanks


Attributes (230BP)
[ Spoiler ]


Qualities
[ Spoiler ]


Skills
[ Spoiler ]


One Gear comment:
Firing a Fichetti Security 600 with 7 dice is not worth leaving Full Cover.
Mardrax
QUOTE (Irion @ Jul 19 2011, 08:17 AM) *
Which is basiclly true, but every GM will turn red, if you offer him a character sheed:
Software(threading)...

*shrug* There's plenty other uses for Software skill.
It's about as effective as Spellcasting (Combat Spells) or Automatics (SMGs) tend to be for the more one-trick ponies amongst us.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Irion @ Jul 18 2011, 11:17 PM) *
Which is basiclly true, but every GM will turn red, if you offer him a character sheed:
Software(threading)...


Why? I don't. Nor do the GM's I play under. It is a valid specialty. No more game breaking than Pistol (Semi-Automatics), or Longarms (Sniper Rifles)... smile.gif
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Irion @ Jul 19 2011, 02:17 AM) *
Which is basiclly true, but every GM will turn red, if you offer him a character sheed:
Software(threading)...


I agree. Not sure why they didn`t just have a threading skill, that could replace the Software skill for a techno if he wanted the skill group (similar to how Flying can replace running on the athletics group)

I would rather a Techno to have specialization for threading particular complex forms, to me that makes sense.
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Jul 19 2011, 06:15 AM) *
I agree. Not sure why they didn`t just have a threading skill, that could replace the Software skill for a techno if he wanted the skill group (similar to how Flying can replace running on the athletics group)

I would rather a Techno to have specialization for threading particular complex forms, to me that makes sense.


Why? Spellcasting (Manipulation Spells) or Software (Hacking) gives as much, or more, bonus as compared to a Technomancer with Software (Threading). It is no more broad than other Specializations provided above, and sometimes less broad. They are all situationally useful.
HunterHerne
QUOTE (Tymeaus Jalynsfein @ Jul 19 2011, 09:28 AM) *
Why? Spellcasting (Manipulation Spells) or Software (Hacking) gives as much, or more, bonus as compared to a Technomancer with Software (Threading). It is no more broad than other Specializations provided above, and sometimes less broad. They are all situationally useful.


I might just be overthinking. I think most specializations should be more restricted in what dicepools they actually affect. (I'm looking at you Pilot groundcraft (wheeled))
Bushw4cker
New and Improved Character, Took a few suggestions from posts. Now More Technomancerylike Let me know what you all think

Attributes (240BP) Rating
Body 2
Agility 4
Reaction 4
Strength 2
Charisma 5
Intuition 5
Logic 4
Willpower 2
Edge 2
Essence 6
Resonance 5
Initiative 9
Initiative Passes 1

Positive Qualities (10BP)
Technomancer 5
Paragon (Alias) 5

Negative Qualities (35BP)
Liar 5
In Debt 15
Mild Media Junkie 5
Wanted (Lone Star) 10

Skills (160BP) Rating
Forgery 6
Electronics Group 2
Cracking Group 2
Influence Group 4
Compiling 4
Perception 3
Pistols 3
Disguise 4

Knowledge Skills (27 Free) Rating
Evaluate Goods 4
Local Area Knowledge 2
Criminal Organizations 2
Security Procedures 2
Psychology 3
SOTA Identification Technology 4

Language Skills Rating
English N
Iconography 2
Japanese 2
Accents 6

Weapons (1250¥)
Yamaha Pulsar
Fichetti Security 600
Shock Glove
Flash-Pak

Fire Non-
Armor (2100¥) Ballistic Impact Resistance Conductivity
Armor Vest 6 4 3 6


Commlink (3150¥)
Novatech Airware w/ Iris Orb OS (2250¥)
Response-3 System-3
Signal-3 Firewall-3
Resident Program (Analyze-3)
Resident Program (Encrypt-3)
ARC-Terminate Connection
Common Use Programs (900¥)
Analyze-3 Command-3 Encrypt-3
Browse-3 Edit-3 Scan-3

Technomancer (18BP)
Stream (Singularitarian)
Sprites: Courier, Crack, Data, Tutor, and Tank
Fading: Logic + Resonance
Paragon (Alias)
Advantages: +2 dice to Spoof Tests,
+ 1 die for Crack Sprites
Disadvantages: Cannot abide to pay for Lifestyle.

Biological Node Complex Forms
Response-5 Signal-3 Edit-5
System-4 Firewall-2 Spoof-3
Biofeedback Filter-5 Exploit-3
VR Matrix Initiative-11 Stealth-5
VR Matrix IP-3 Analyze-2

Gear (13350¥)
Fake SIN (Rating 4) Don Quixote Fake License (Rating 4) Matrix Security Consultant (Don)
Fake SIN (Rating 3) Rudolf Virchow Fake License (Rating 3) Medical License (Rudolf)
Fake SIN (Rating 2) Steve Erwin Fake License (Rating 2) Paranormal Animal Control Permit (Steve)
Fake SIN (Rating 2) Maverick Fake License (Rating 2) Pilot License (Maverick)
Forgery Kit Contact Lenses (Rating 2) w/ Lowlight, Flare Comp
Hardware Kit Fake Mustache
50m of Duct Tape
Elf Ears

Contacts (6BP) Type Location Connection Loyalty
Smiley Fixer Downtown Seattle 4 2
Kenji Yakuza Redmound Barrens 3 1



Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (HunterHerne @ Jul 19 2011, 07:55 AM) *
I might just be overthinking. I think most specializations should be more restricted in what dicepools they actually affect. (I'm looking at you Pilot groundcraft (wheeled))


I think that you are indeed overthinking. smile.gif

When a character chooses a Specialty, it is likely that he chooses the most advantageous application he can find. Having been chosen, he will use that specialty to the exclusion of all others, given the choice. it really is not that big of a deal. smile.gif
Ryu
QUOTE (Bushw4cker @ Jul 19 2011, 04:55 PM) *
New and Improved Character, Took a few suggestions from posts. Now More Technomancerylike Let me know what you all think.

40 BP Resonance, 5 BP TM, 5 BP Paragon, 16 BP compiling. 66 BP + opting out of ware in exchange for getting sprites (Registering is now missing?)

I think either technomancy or the "Sprites Only" limitation have to go.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 19 2011, 07:20 PM) *
40 BP Resonance, 5 BP TM, 5 BP Paragon, 16 BP compiling. 66 BP + opting out of ware in exchange for getting sprites (Registering is now missing?)

I think either technomancy or the "Sprites Only" limitation have to go.


Character now has complex forms (18BP worth), I think you missed (Transferred the document from Excel, so everything clumped together)

Wanted Registering 3, Compiling 4 and Disguise 4 but only had 24 BP to spend
If I took Registering 2 Compiling 3 and Disguise 3, it would take 22 Karma to get skills to level wanted
By taking Compiling 4 and Disguise 4, it will only take 14 Karma to get skills to level wanted.
-with first 4 Karma he can pick up registering.

Unless I have players use Karma Gen, it is costly to have a bunch of low level skills if you intend to raise them. I have about a dozen low level campaigns planned and the setting is 2069, and Technomancers are not common knowledge. It's starting out as a barrens run, so I didn't want my player to have a god-like technomancer when he's going to be hacking against street gangers in the beginning. Also I didn't want to make the character too complex because player is recovering 3rd edition addict.
Maybe I should allow players to use Karmagen, but it takes long enough to make characters with Build Points as it is, and half my players I have to help out, the other half know the rules too well.
Ryu
I much prefer karmagen over BP-gen. Especially for chars like this. Given the appreciable amount of energy you put into his char, investing the time for karmagen will well be worth it (IMO).


Bushw4cker
I'll run it though Karmagen and see what comes out
Ryu
Assuming attribute*5, race karma = race BP

Attributes 385
Qualities -40
Skills (inc. know/lang) 282
CF 50
Gear 4
Contacts 12

Total 693 (Do check.)

Now how to spend the points?
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 21 2011, 04:55 PM) *
Assuming attribute*5, race karma = race BP

Attributes 385
Qualities -40
Skills (inc. know/lang) 282
CF 50
Gear 4
Contacts 12

Total 693 (Do check.)

Now how to spend the points?


Thanks ))
Ryu
Variant Ork: 20 karma race, CHA 4 BOD 5 STR 3 EDG 2 + Human Looking. 1)attribute spending is now legal (cap 375+20) 2)Increased DR due to more Body 3)can wear better armor. AGI 5 BOD 4 might also fit.

Group Contacts. The more the merrier.
Bushw4cker
QUOTE (Ryu @ Jul 21 2011, 07:23 PM) *
Variant Ork: 20 karma race, CHA 4 BOD 5 STR 3 EDG 2 + Human Looking. 1)attribute spending is now legal (cap 375+20) 2)Increased DR due to more Body 3)can wear better armor. AGI 5 BOD 4 might also fit.

Group Contacts. The more the merrier.


Wow in the last 2 hours I've discovered the magic of Karma Gen. I don't know why I never tried it before or let my players use it, It seems to be superior in every way. Especially since I have some that like to have 20+ Firearm Dice Pools
Irion
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
You are right. It is raw and I would let it role, if there is no house rule in place. (Because well, I would not care about two dices)
But it is kind of yellow and smelly, because a technomancer will use the skill 95% for threading...
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Irion @ Jul 21 2011, 02:57 PM) *
@Tymeaus Jalynsfein
You are right. It is raw and I would let it role, if there is no house rule in place. (Because well, I would not care about two dices)
But it is kind of yellow and smelly, because a technomancer will use the skill 95% for threading...


And yet, the Street Sam with a Specialty in Semi Auto Pistols will use them over Revolvers 100% of the time. Your Point? smile.gif
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