Hello, and thank you for allowing me to join this group. I GM'ed 2nd and 3rd
edition and I am now doing 4th, and I have a few questions if anyone can help me
out. When a hacker reduces his datatrail on his access ID, do they just spoof it
each time they log on to different nodes or the Matrix by doing a Hacking +
Spoof test? I read that somewhere online, but I thought they could only alter
software or hardware as listed on pg 224, and when they reboot their commlink,
wouldnt they lose all their programs? And, if characters constantly change their
ID, is there anyway their datatrail can be tracked days after a run? Is there
one roll or game mechanic to cover this, or is it something played out, like
extensive Data Searches to find evidence? Any help anyone can give me would be
much appreciated. Thanks.

If your software is registered to an access ID, then yes, life sucks. Discuss things with your GM and figure out what house rules they use. If software is registered find out how that option is removed. If piracy is used, does that software come unregistered. Missions, season 4, if I recall, does not have registration so you can, I believe, change you access_ID and keep your software. Note that your hacking commlink should NEVER go into active mode. (SR4A 223: "You give permission for anyone to connect to your commlink and see what is on it.") You should have another commlink for active mode.

If characters constantly change their ID, their data trail can still be tracked depending on the OPSEC. For example, if the hacker is always hacking from the same SoyBoy franchise, or, heaven forbid, from their teammates safehouse, then that location can be watched for activity going through or from that node.

ooo plan to host that game here? Or it´s with some RL friends of yours?

Sorry for going of topic, just notice that part ^^

Suoq, He IS the GM

If you use AccessID A when you are hacking into corp site 1, from soybun franchise 2.
When you are done doing your run, you spoof your accessID to B.

Corp Spider does a trace on AccessID A, he gets to Soybun Franchise 2, but doesn't see anything answering to AccessID A, because it's gone. Corp Spider is called upon to do another trace on accessID R, and it shows up in the Soybun Franchise 2 again. That seems odd, so they start pulling security footage, to figure out who the hacker using the Soybun's matrix connection was.

Of course, SoyBun Inc -wholly owned subsidiary of Aztechnology- outsourced security spider will go "¿Estás loco, amigo? Sal de mi sistema!" at NeoNet's request for his security footage.

So, it is possible to trace to a location even after someone has logged off? I thought they could only run a trace while the user is online. And,can a hacker spoof their ID, without having to change software or hardware, like it mentions on pages 223-224 of the rulebook? In that example, the software change only lasts until they reboot their commlink, and the hardware adjustment lasts until they change their hardware, which seems to be a pain and would be expensive. The Anatomy of a Shadowrun mentions spoofing ID before going online, but since the character in that example is a technomancer they dont have to.

the hardware change is just some sodering, basically. And the software only lasts until they reboot their commlink that's correct. Although one of the first actions they can take is spoof their accessID.

My hackers tend to do this:
They change the accessID with hardware changes about once a month. Everytime they boot up their system, they use a software test to do a new accessID. Before every hack attempt (when possible) they do a new accessID, and change it afterwards.

My hackers also tend to have the disguise skill, and hack from somewhere public, and never the same place twice if they can help it.

Mardrax is right, the Aztecnology spider tells the neo-net guy to go to hell, if the neo-net guy asks for the footage, instead of hacking for it.

I always rule that you can back trace an offline user to the last known location, (within 50m) for a number of hours equal to 10 - stealth rating.

But that's totally a houserule.

Trace action = while online. Look at the logs = after the fact. Even assuming good opsec it may be possible to get quite a bit of information from log files. As a RL example of this, read Clifford Stoll's "The Cuckoo's Egg" which documents a long term hacker hunt based off an accounting discrepancy. In game, this is why hackers edit the log files, because doing so is better opsec than not doing so. That being said, it's not a guarantee.


Your campaign, your rules. Unwired makes a mess of the hacking rules by adding registration, copying, and piracy.

Readings I do reccomend:
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...st&p=804857 - Game, Set, and Match by Tiger eyes. (edit: Note that unwired changes the spoofing rules by adding modifiers for access level.)
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?s=&a...t&p=1072291 - Hacking a Node by sabs.
http://www.serbitar.de/stuff/sgm_1.pdf - Serbitar’s guide to the matrix

Thanks everyone for your help.

You really should install a Spoof Chip in your Comlink.

Arsenal 105, if you're looking. The main disadvantage of a spoof chip is that you can't use it to go back to a previously used access_ID if you wish to. I've also been mulling over the joys of getting a list of access IDs of people I don't like and deliberately using their IDs on jobs.

yeah, spoof chip is cute, but I like the manual ability to go back, and reuse certain accessID's during certain jobs. Sometimes, you want to frame someone.

And woot! I got quoted as a source

Having a Spoof Chip does not preclude you from using a previous/specific Access ID. Just do not enable the Spoof Chip for that particular Matrix Run, and manually set the ID. You can turn them on and off after all.

I do have two new questions that I would like to ask if everyone doesn't mind. The first is when deleting log files, I read online that every hit a Hacker does deletes" edit program rating" hits worht of traces left behind. I am assuming that each action in a node counts as a possible trace, for instance 20 actions done in a node would equal 20 hits? And I have a question about Agents, the SR4 rulebook does not exactly state where they come from in regards to a commlink, is it just as simple as buying an Agent Program from the gear section?

Yes, every action is 1 entry in a log.

You buy agent programs, and run them on your commlink.
They will have the accessID of your commlink.

Well, maybe. Inter-megacorp cooperation is certainly possible, given the proper motivation and/or persuasion. After all, Mr. Johnson's can have cross-corp contacts as well. Shadowrunners should never feel safe hacking Corp B from somewhere within Corp A. It'll take more effort to get the footage/logs/etc, but it can be done.

This is why Hackers should have disguise skill, con, and a bunch of throw away commlinks with cheap SiNs for casual use. Given that you can create masks that will let you use your hits in a computer+edit roll to add to your disguise total. That's just awesome for a hacker. If you can, also keep a handful of personafix chips that you can slot when needed to. Combined with Skillwires, you can imitate almost anyone, doing any job.

Partially false, or rather incomplete: agents have their own Access ID programmed into them. They will only use your comlink's Access ID when they're loaded into your persona. They can (and often do) operate completely independently as well, in which case they use their own Access ID.

Hmmmm... An agent is software.. Can you provide a reference to this?

@Redjack Whoops. I missed!

(pg 234) Thanks!

If nothing else, 1,000 will probably get that Azzie spider to turn over any relevant info.

You realise when that gets out, the spider will be accused of spying and treason (and probably end a human sacrifice or in some blood sport) and NeoNet will have quite some issue as it comes out they've been spying on the Azzies?

When dealing with corps, especially AAA ones, things aren't as easy as running a bribe here or there.

If that gets out where? If his boss finds out, he's in trouble because he didn't get a cut. And why would anyone higher up care? These aren't critical secrets, this is video footage from Soybun subsidiary franchise #423,977. If the spider for a freaking McDonalds is going to get executed for selling video footage of fat Americans farting, then your setting basically has no corruption. Or at least the megacorps have no corruption (god, that sounds wrong).

Sometimes, it's not about what's lost, but about what's to gain if the issue is pressed. What would the Corporate Court think of clearcut international espionage? Clearly, there's something to gain, especially with the Azzies' wordspinners around.

Of course, NeoNet being able to call on more than a few deniable assets who are more than happy to do some datagrabbing is why this game is called Shadowrun.

"Seriously? We're the fragging Corporate Court, why are you bringing us this drek? Now go away, we have a world to run."

It's not like the Azzies can go public, because that conversation will start with fact that hackers are using Azzie Soyburger as a hideout for runs, which would be a damper on family dining. And behind closed doors, who cares? These are people who regularly hire people to assassinate/kidnap each other and bribe three government officials before lunch.

I have been having nothing but problems with this site, alwasy getting kicked off after logging in or trying to post. So, this might be the only way I can ask this question. Okay, just when I think I get Signal ranges and hacking, I dont. So I was wondering if anyone can help since I cant get Unwired yet, and even then I do not know if it is discussed in greater detail in that. For a hacker to hack, he has to be in the mutual range of the node he is trying to hack, for instance his commlink has a Signal of 5 and the node has a 3, he has to be in that range. But... since every device is part of the wireless netowrk which allows someone in Seattle to communicate with someone in Denver, cant a hacker just relay and cruise the net until he finds the node. I used to GM 2nd and 3rd quite a bit, and with the LTGs and RTGs this could be done. Corps had their own private LTGs, and in 4th I would assume they either have slaved nodes or low signal range. So my question is, does a hacker truly have to be within mutual signal range to hack? Cant he just use Data Search to try to find the node in the Matrix, even if the node is in L.A.? Any help would be appreciated.

You can hack throught the Mesh Network, Yes. Mutual Signal Range is not required for most things, since the Mesh handles routing fairly seemlessly. There is another thread somewhere here (that is recent), that you might look at. Hope that helps. I would link it, but I am apparently Link Defficient.

The Titles of these threads are:

Full Immersion Hacker
Hacking Related Questions

Not sure it is necessarily like that. As in RL business today, managers from rival companies are quite often friendly with each other. Trade fairs are an opportunity for people to network, and non-sensitive information exchange (e.g. "Smaller fuel efficient cars seem to be selling better on our lots. Same for you?") help executives build up a better picture of the industry in general terms. Of course, most of the information exchanged will be public knowledge that could be gleaned from annual reports rather than sensitive info on the top-secret new model Corp A is planning to release on the market, but still.

In my game world many of the AAA corps will be mutually scratching each others backs, so providing security camera images of a hacker will not be uncommon assuming reciprocity (i.e. they will give you security footage if someone hacks you from one of their franchises). Of course, this would not be the case if a wily hacker who chooses a franchise of an AAA currently at loggerheads with the target corp, that's a smart way to do things.

Yes and no. There are plenty of things that aren't connected to the Matrix that are operated wirelessly; to hack those things you need to e within mutual signal range. Drones are probably the biggest example; if you want to hack a drone, you need to be within its signal range. The same thing applies for hacking a commlink that's not connected to a node, or cyberware. (Admittedly, combat-hacking of cyberware is a tremendously bad idea, but it's a good example.)

For some reason, I still get kicked off when I try to post a new thread, or check my inbox. Anyways, In ahve a new question, and I can only get on this thread. I have a question that isnt related to game mechanics, more of a role playing detail. In the previous editions, wage slaves usually all had a terminal and cubicle, where they hooked up their datajack and spent their shift doing data entry or something similar. Now, with commlinks there really isnt much need for them to have a terminal, as they can connect with the nodes in the corporate facility or building pretty much anywhere in the mutual range. So, I dont know if it is some of the supplement book,s but my question is what exactly do wage slaves do now? I cant see them sitting at their desk using their commlink to access the company node and perform whatever their job duties are. And I cant really see the corps insisting on using old tech to have wage slaves do their work. So, I was just wondering, in 4th edition, is there any detailed descriptions of what exactly corp office workers do now instead of the old datajack and terminal? Thanks.