Ok.

While it may seem contradictory at first I see erased as being more flexible than it is presented in the book. Remember for this quality someone or something is doing the erasing and it isn't the character, nor does it necessarily have the PC's best interests at heart.

Erased + SINner
In this case normal data connected to the sin, such as where you shop and what apartment you live in, is kept up to date. Only if the data would be incriminating, such as of an arrest, would it be deleted. At the lower level only directly harmful data would be deleted such as arrest records or evidence that you were near a well-known crime scene at the time in question. It would still allow a determined and competent investigator to connect the dots and perhaps entrap the character. At the higher end things are more thorough, not only would data be erased but suitable data would be put in to fill the holes. Of course if the PC has the criminal version of SINner that would make things a little more complicated to explain why the criminal record hasn't been deleted, but nothing that a clever GM couldn't think through.

Records On File + Erased
This scenareo is much easier to explain. Erased only removes the relatively easy to access files. The corp would obviously be keeping a shadowrunner's records in their more secure servers and thus the erasing agent wouldn't be able to access them. The other line of thought is that the agent doesn't WANT to erase them. Perhaps the corp or someone in the corp is the agent doing the erasing?

I have thought of making a third higher level of Erased that not only erased data but fixes it for the character as well. All Fake SINS possessed more than 1 week are considered 1 level higher than normal.

Another idea is to make a negative version of Erased where it is a nuisance. All data pertaining to a character is deleted over a period of time including fake sins. I might rename this quality, as it might be more than just erasure. A hacker or AI tracking and deliberately tormenting the PC through data manipulation. At the very least I'd say any FAKE sin used by the character starts to degrade by 1 level 1 week after its first use and then 1 level every full month there after, unless the PC hires a hacker to shore up and repair the data loss.

"Records On File + Erased" could mean that you do have records on file, but they've been redacted except for people with certain security clearance or sealed and could only be opened with the proper search warrant.

And on hardcopy only, of course.

Yes, yes, I know /dev/grr/, "Ew, Hardcopy."

But hardcopy is the only way to make "anything" safe in the sixth world (as long as enough security is around it, at least)

My good friends Mr. Petrochem and Mr. Matchbook makes them not so safe.

Printed on boron carbide plates on a stealth satellite in orbit around Jupiter.

Technically, Records are On File, but good luck in finding them unless you already knew about them.




-k

I'd argue a reduction in cost of the trait if it is a Positive Quality but "doesn't necessarily have the PC's best interests at heart."

If a negative quality can not help your character because it is just that, a negative quality. Then a positive quality should help your character because it is just that, a positive quality.

That may be so, but there are variations and twists. First Impression I would argue leaves a small impression on anyone you meet, especially when you use the effect to boost your charisma skills. That remembrance could be bad. Many of the metagenetic qualities have various flavours of helpful and hurtful, and certain Manias aren`t necessarily negative when played well enough. (For that last one, I`m in particular thinking of a character I played with an "addiction" to pain. In the two sessions he was used, he got his back broke and was run over by a motorcycle twice. The GM considered, and then rejected increasing lifestyle costs for pain medication, instead increasing the level of his mania, which I suppose is still bad in the long run...)

If you're a SINner with a day job or a Docwagon contract, you have Records On File you don't want erased, so Erased doesn't touch them.

Hey folks, a little thread Necromancy here...

But here is what I don't get about the Erased quality... If you don't have a SIN, what is your friendly neighborhood hacker/AI/whatever erasing? Info on a fake SIN? Or is it assumed that when you take the Erased quality, you have a SIN already, but it doesn't matter because it is erased regularly?

Thanks for the help thinking this through.

The Criminal SIN you get for being caught? Any fake SINs you get?

The DNA and other such evidence that gets collected under a "Suspect: John/Jane Doe" SIN?

Interesting topic.

The way I play it, the Erased quality is mutually exclusive with either SINner quality or Records on File. Take one or the other, but you can't take both.

What about combining it with Fame (or whatever it's called) to represent a movie studio/record label covering up their star's misdeeds?

The cannon character Damien Knight has the Erased quality (source: Street Legends Supplemental).

Food for thought.

Line heard in my brain with Fisher Stevens' voice...

On file has the definition of 'recorded on some database', database itself meaning a collection of data easily searched and retrieved. So no, A record somewhere wouldn't be on file, even technically.

I didn't know a fixed gun emplacement could have a quality. Stupid new books.

Hehe, sure they can! Pilot upgrade with the node inhabited by an AI!

Well, I posted that message ages ago, but if the satellite has the right equipment, the data COULD be easily searchable and retrievable, by the satellite owners. Erasing the data, not so much.

The point is, I can easily see a GM ruling that the negative quality overrides the positive quality for the specific records named. Like, in general any unwanted data on you vanishes in a week, but one pesky record keeps eluding the cleanup crew. Maybe it's a hardcopy in a vault somewhere. Maybe it's in Damien Knight's wallet. Regardless, out of the reach of the Erased crew.



-k

Not really a much more unaccessible file than something deep in a megacorp server, then.

Erased could work with a Fame quality, the stage name would produce something of a data trail, but there is no background to the persona before the stage name started.


That is ... pretty stupid. The erasing team must be a bunch of glitching morons, 'cos everyone in the SRverse still knows who Damien Knight is.
Don't have the supplement so I can't say for sure, but I guess the Erasing team leave core info on DK but burn his data trail (so you couldn't find out where he dined last Wednesday night or whatever). Seems a bit contradictory to me, but I suppose it is evidence that Erased could work with qualities such as SINner. Although I would certainly argue that Damien Knight is rich enough to be the exception rather than the rule ...

Just general comments on thoughts: some of this has been said, and some is obvious, but it bears stating.

While I can appreciate the idea of a run hook tied to a quality, I do not believe that positive qualities should have a needless complication beyond what the book demonstrates. It flat out says, in the entry, that the mechanism for Erased is malleable (and irrelevant to the end result), but all unwanted data and criminal sins, or on the better version ANY sin, undesirable credit history, or personal information they wish burnt is burnt. The listed complication that directly relates is the loss of information that they previously gave as undesirable disappears at an inconvenient time, such as a prison record while in prison. This implicates you are getting that info to someone or thing, but I believe the ability to burn a SIN on request should be incompatible with the SINner quality on start, or Records on File, because they can wish them away, just as Midas said. Other interpretations that limit this would then be explicitly house rules. I personally don't agree with the idea of mediating Erased by the opposed negative, which can get all kinds of convoluted when specific scenarios involving the contradictory qualities arise.

Likewise, I do not think Erased, as powerful as it can be, merits any sort of bonuses to other things, like fake SINs.

As for the data storage, "all but the most secure systems" is a blanket statement that in no way impedes the GM's ability to do so. Several of my players just got burnt recently by an old Johnson who wanted some payback, and is holding enough data to expose them over their heads. Obviously, this can bypass the erased quality (which most of the team seems to have) by storing it securely. Also, "system" is not necessarily a "computer system." There are many types of systems.

I think it would be interesting to sit down with a willing player and discuss the specific mechanism behind this, and how it might work with some of their other qualities (especially other flaws), but I believe that complications of beneficial qualities beyond explicit book devices should only be done with the consent of the player, because they paid for that at one point.

You know that he owns Ares, but what do you really know about him? About his past, for instance. Or where he lives. What his day to day routine consists of. Basically, you might know of him, but there's not much information available about him.

I don't understand why people think Erased should be mutually exclusive with SINner or Records on File.

It does not wipe out who you are, though the higher level Erased would do that if you wished it. How exactly is it incompatible? I'm a registered SINer in the UCAS. Now I want my SIN gone. Poof it goes, thanks to Level 2 of the Erased quality.

Records on File would be untouchable without spending Karma removing that and going on some sort of run.

There's no need for there to be an exception to the rule. You can be a SINner and have Erased to remove your parking tickets for example. It doesn't remove all traces of who you are... unless you get the higher rank and you want it to.

It's really screwy, the five and ten point variants. I'd think that the "unwanted data" of the five point version would include undesirable credit history and any SIN (criminal, fake, or otherwise) that could be potentially harmful to the character.

Personally I've run it the same for whatever data is removed by the Erased quality, only the time frame is different. And obviously any qualities that must first be paid off in karma must be done so, else that data is obviously stored in one of "the most secure systems".

William Edgars, anyone? No one even has so much of a picture of him (in canon). Owns a third of Mars, and a good chunk of Earth, and no one has a picture of him.

Just think. Every bit of data you might be able to dig up on Damien Knight is there because he wanted it to be there.





-k

Or is less than a day/week old.