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Full Version: Ok, so the Rigger Mage wants Fix his car.
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blakkie
First, let me thank everyone for input and insight on that last thread.

The Fix spell (pg. 147, MitS) states that you can "repair any item with a weight equal to the caster's Magic in kilograms". Before that it specifically mentions that vehicles are included in the type of things you can fix. But beyond the smallest of drones, i would need to be a Karma monster to even have a shot at fixing say a bicycle muchless an Americar. Could this mean that you could fix, say a portion of the car? Such as a quarter panel at a time? I don't know, anyone else run into this? Maybe created a new spell with a larger range/higher drain?
Cray74
What I'd recommend is for the Rigger Mage to pull the busted part from the car and cast Fix on it as an individual component sitting on a tool bench. Except for a few major components (engine block, frame, etc.) most systems in the car will reduce down to subcomponents below 6kg. I think.

Of course, that may for a lot of grease monkey wrench work and re-assembly, but at least you don't have to pay for the replacement part.
Dashifen
Or, have the mage target only the broken piece. If the back right wheel is punctured, they don't have to fix the car, just the back right wheel. This way, if they do need to fix multiple pieces of the car, they have to soak all the drain for casting fix multiple times. I don't think I'd force the player to pull the car apart like Cray74 said, but then again I allow would generally allow targeting a smaller portion of a larger object with a spell almost like the new called shot rules.

Edit: also, reviewing the text for the Fix spell, it says all of the pieces must be present to Fix the item. You could make it very difficult to fix vehicles by having the pieces blown off of them. Not many people would want to stop in vehicluar combat, get out and pick up the big chunk of the right rear quarterpanel that just got blasted off of their shiny new sports car.
BitBasher
You cannot do that. Magic cannot target a specific part of a car, it's a limitation listed under spell targeting. You would have to remove the part first.
Sunday_Gamer
Always been a favorite of mine, that rule.

You can fix vehicles provided they weight less than 8kg mister Rank 2 Initiate. So if anyone has a broken RC car... I'm the man.

Kong
TheScamp
QUOTE
You can fix vehicles provided they weight less than 8kg mister Rank 2 Initiate. So if anyone has a broken RC car... I'm the man.

Luckily, there are plenty of drones that would fall into that category. smile.gif
blakkie
QUOTE (BitBasher @ Mar 30 2004, 05:17 PM)
You cannot do that. Magic cannot target a specific part of a car, it's a limitation listed under spell targeting. You would have to remove the part first.

Ya, i that is what i had in mind to start with. I should have been more explicit in the orginal post.

Anyway, i started thinking about it a bit more, and any vehicle armour (usually the part that gets busted 2nd, windows are first) is quite likely going to end up weighing more unless it is installed in relatively small panels.

Maybe this calls for a new spell. "Useful Fix" might be a bit confrontational wink.gif , so lets call it:

Fix Vehicle:
Type: P Target: OR Duration: P Drain: (Force+Body)/2(D) Range: Touch

Fix Vehicle is used to repair damage done to a vehicle. The maximum Body of vehicle that can be repaired is Magic/2, rounded down. Note nearly all vehicles will have a TN of 10 (Computer Equipped). The rest will have a TN 8 (alloys, electronics) outside of a very limited number that could be constructed to function with simple materials (wood framed glider). 1 box of damage is repaired per success up to a maximum of the Force of the spell.

EDIT: Added the Range.
Lilt
Yes, any body 0 drones, and some of the lighter body 1 drones could be repaired hollistically. Anything beyond that and you'd need to remove the particular section. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if some single components were heavier than 6kgs as Cray74 suggested.
A Clockwork Lime
I think having to disassemble the vehicle and Fix the individual part fits the concept of a Rigger/Mage a lot nicer than some custom spell that takes all the charm away from the combo. The latter just makes getting rid of vehicular damage a wave of the hand, which not only takes the charm from the Rigger/Mage, but from traditional greasemonkeys as well.

That aside, your Drain Code doesn't make any sense and the spell breaks many conventions presented in the Spell Design rules. If anything, just take the normal Fix spell and add use the Area Spell to reflect Fixing multiple parts at the same time and/or a bastardization of Extended Area to increase the weight alotment to Magic * 10kg. If I were allowing it' I'd require both for a Fix Vehicles spell and then I'd allow the Very Restricted Target modifier, increasing the Drain Code of Fix to a final Code of (D).

It would still require beating the Threshold and OR of the vehicle, making the stereotypical Shadowrunner vehicle (ie, an armored van) pretty tough to repair.
blakkie
QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime @ Mar 30 2004, 11:30 PM)
I think having to disassemble the vehicle and Fix the individual part fits the concept of a Rigger/Mage a lot nicer than some custom spell that takes all the charm away from the combo.  The latter just makes getting rid of vehicular damage a wave of the hand, which not only takes the charm from the Rigger/Mage, but from traditional greasemonkeys as well.

That aside, your Drain Code doesn't make any sense and the spell breaks many conventions presented in the Spell Design rules.  If anything, just take the normal Fix spell and add use the Area Spell to reflect Fixing multiple parts at the same time and/or a bastardization of Extended Area to increase the weight alotment to Magic * 10kg.  If I were allowing it' I'd require both for a Fix Vehicles spell and then I'd allow the Very Restricted Target modifier, increasing the Drain Code of Fix to a final Code of (D).

It would still require beating the Threshold and OR of the vehicle, making the stereotypical Shadowrunner vehicle (ie, an armored van) pretty tough to repair.

The thought train behind that final drain:

Take Fix (S), drop it to (M) because of limiting it to Vehicles only, then use the bastardized Extended Area -twice- to get to get 10*10*Magic (yes a stretch, but basically the same as Extended Area + Area). However to save trying to guess/calculate weights of vehicles SR normally uses Body as an approximation, so i did that with the spell. The reason i included Body in the drain is because once you have the Magic rating Fixing a tank was just as hard is Fixing a drone. Didn't seem right. *shrug* So i put in that extra drain.

In the end you can only attempt to use this spell once on damage. Unless you use the spell at a high force (as high as Force 10 perhaps), and manage to nail that TN 10 every time (look how often that works for Heal Checks), you are going to have to eventually get your hands dirty. Even at a mage below Grade 2, without the aid of a F:2 Power foci, won't touch anything hefter than an Americar.

So it is more like a preliminary patch job, with some serious drain, to get the car back to the shop. Not some Bewitch nose wiggle to make all the bad things go away.

EDIT: I thought about Threshhold, but with a TN 10 threshhold is truely insane. For Body 3 you'd need at least *takes off socks to count* 20 dice to have a decent outside chance.
A Clockwork Lime
Uhm, using Manipulation spells on vehicles gives you a target number of an OR of 8 + Body + 1/2 Armor. A Body 8 tank with 40 points of armor (TN 36) is going to be a tad more difficult to repair than a Body 1 drone with no armor (TN 9) by my reckoning.

Such a spell should also be given a Threshold, in my opinion at least, and I'd set it at one-half Body. So not only would the tank have a TN of 36, but you'd have to score at least 4 of them to do it. Whereas the drone would only require a single 9. Of course since the spell still requires successes to function, a Threshold could be bypassed I s'pose, just as it is with the standard Fix spell. I just like Thresholds. smile.gif
blakkie
Where is that OR from? Or is that something you made up? The only OR numbers i know about are from the table on page 182 of the SR3. Pretty much all new cars rolling of the assembly lines today would fit the catagory of Highly Processed Objects.
blakkie
It might make sense to have the damage repaired be 1 box per 2 levels of Force. The notation for the drain could then be made to look more "normal".

Drain: +Body/2(D)

So that begining mage, to fix up just 3 points on his li'll ol' Americar will be subjected to a drain of 4D. Perhaps he won't kiss asphalt, perhaps he will.
A Clockwork Lime
Look in the index of SR3 under Vehicles, Magic And. I don't have it handy to give you the exact page reference, but I know that's the index reference.

Your standard Ford Americar has an OR of 11.
TheScamp
Page 150, SR3, beginning of third full paragraph:
QUOTE
Spells cast against vehicles have a target number based on their Object Reistance (see p. 182) of 8 plus their Body Rating plus half their armor rating (round down).
blakkie
QUOTE (TheScamp)
Page 150, SR3, beginning of third full paragraph:
QUOTE
Spells cast against vehicles have a target number based on their Object Reistance (see p. 182) of 8 plus their Body Rating plus half their armor rating (round down).

...for -attack- spells, which that entire section is clearly talking about. The use of armour is somewhat dubious in this case.

But going on that assumption, given those TNs, reducing the drain to the more standard +0(D), no threshhold, 1 box repaired per success up to Force/2 seems perfectly adequate. At a TN 10 (Body 2, assuming a perfectly healthy mage) only one in 8 die are going to succeed. At TN 11 for an unarmoured Body 3, less than 1 in 12 die will succeed. Even a Grade 2 initiate is only going to be able to scrounge up dice into high teens, perhaps 20sh if they have a nice Power foci. In doing so they leave nothing but their naked Willpower as drain protection.

By the time a mage gets to the point where they could reasonable expect to repair 5 boxes of damage on the Americar they likely could just buy a new car with the interest they earn on their bank account each 1/2 hour.
TheScamp
QUOTE
...for -attack- spells, which that entire section is clearly talking about.

The sectoin mentions damaging spells, but absolutely nowhere does it state or even imply that it is for these types of spells only. It spends some time on them because really, the vast majority of spells that someone is going to cast on a vehicle are combat related.

The section is titled "Vehicles and Magic," and the only index mention of the topic points directly to it. There is absolutely nothing to indicate that you would use any other rules for vehicles, either explicitly or implicitly.
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