I'm posting here in anticipation of an upcoming shadowrun campaign. My group has never played 4th Ed, but most of us have experience with a house-ruled 3rd Ed. In 3rd we always ignored or NPC'd the Matrix aspect of the game, for reasons everyone here understands, I'm sure.

Since we'll be playing SR4 this time around, I'm really looking forward to including that aspect of the universe. Unfortunately, none of us really understand the Matrix rules very well. As we are discussing our party builds, I had the idea for all of us to dedicate 40 BP or so to hacking. I think this could be much more fun than one person dedicating 400 BP to being a technomancer or dedicated hacker. The other benefit, is that we can all learn the rules together.

Playing around with a character builder, it seems like it's reasonable to buy a nice commlink with a hot sim module and a few rating 4 programs for less than 10 BP. Add a rating 4 skill or 2 for 16 BP each and we're all throwing 8 dice plus Logic for our Matrix tests.

I figured we would break up our specializations into something like this:
Matrix Perception / Data Search Guy
Stealth Cracker
Matrix Warrior

Any feedback would be appreciated. What skills/software are needed for each role? Is this idea stupid or impossible for some reason that this Matrix noob doesn't understand? Thank you Dumpshock!

Matrix warrior isn't a feasible of a concept in SR4, if it's come down to matrix combat you've likely already failed if your the aggressor.

The Matrix Warrior that I play does alright. Even against the high level systems. It can work.

What Lurker said. Of those, "Stealth Cracker" is the only really useful one.

I would suggest getting someone to play a non-hyperspecialized hacker. If you check my sig, the Generalist, Mercenary Rigger, and Combat Hacker are all characters who can hack pretty well but still contribute to the rest of the game.

It's also a good idea to try to keep the matrix stuff short. Generally hack in, get caught or not, and either get what you want or flee. Trying to shoehorn in silly cybercombats bogs the game down in pointless slapfights that only one person gets to participate in, but "stealth hacking" is respectably fast.

Matrix Perception:
Wants Computer Skill, and Datasearch with the Analyze and Browse Programs. Both of these programs are common use, so everyone should have those programs as high as they can either, but your specialist will want the two skills up high, and with Computer skill specialized in Matrix Perception. Also consider Scan (Electronic Warfare), Decrypt(Electronic Warfare), Sniffer(Electronic Warfare or Hacking depending on use), and Track(Computer) programs. Decrypt's use should be obvious, Scan helps you find nodes, Sniffer lets you intercept wireless communications (eavesdrop on calls and the like), and Track lets you trace a wireless signal back to its owner. All of these fit pretty well with the "see stuff" role, and should keep the player busy.

So with this guy I'd grab all of the programs mentioned at rating 6, with Computer(Matrix Perception)4(+2), Data Search 4, Electronic Warfare 3-4, and Hacking(Sniffer) 1-2(+2).


This is actually the heaviest investment one because there's a lot you can do as far as finding stuff in the matrix and working with what you find. You may want to load some of these onto the others if you feel the investment is too lopsided.

Stealth Cracker:
You want the Hacking Skill here. Your main go to programs will be Stealth, Exploit, and Spoof. Get those programs all at high rating with a good hacking skill, and he doesn't really need much else to get by. A defuse program would be good for if you run into a databomb while going around. Though that is yet another thing that may be better for the high perception guy who's more likely to see it. Since you don't want to be caught your best bet here is a hacking specialization in stealth.

Matrix Warrior
Cybercombat all the way. You'll want a good Biofeedback Filter, Armor Program, and Attack Program. You could also go for either Black Hammer or Blackout if you want to mess with more than just someone's digital presence. Grab a specialty in your attack program and go to town.




Also consider programs like Medic to offer support, and maybe have a few IC that you can load up while your matrix warrior goes to start the fight.

You'll also want Computer Skill. If you get in with Admin or Security permissions a lot of actions may be Computer+Program rather tham Hacking+Program.

-D

Thanks for the feedback so far, especially the build suggestions from Seerow. Since, your suggestions match what I had envisioned, I'm thinking I might actually have a grasp on the Matrix rules (maybe).

Regarding the "don't bother with a Matrix Warrior" sentiment, my original concept was to double down and have two 'Matrix Warriors', thinking that 2 generalists could stand toe-to-toe with a specialist, or expert system. As an analogy, they are the street sams who come pull the stealth B&E boy out of the fire after he's fragged everything up, or if we spot a threat in the Matrix, we can send them in with their Blackhammer beatsticks. I would find it insightful if you could elaborate on 'why' matrix combat is a lost cause.

Unless you're using an optional rule, you don't add your Logic to Matrix tests. It's Skill + Program. Yes, it's different from every other mechanic. It's widely regarded as a bad move on the designers' part, and the optional rule that makes it Attribute + Skill, hits capped by Program rating, is fairly popular. I can't remember if it's in SR4A or Unwired, though.

I guess I have a general question:

Is there much advantage to having multiple hackers? I mean certainly doubling down on data search is great, and I understand that the Stealth Cracker concept doesn't benefit from having his chummers mucking about in a node he's trying to subvert.

What I'm reading from your feedback so far is that all characters should have a level of Matrix Perception / Data Search, and that someone should specialize in a stealth/cracking set of equipment and skills.

Regardless, I think I'm going to try to talk my group into going with my plan, mostly so we can all learn the joys of the wireless world.

Thanks for pointing that out, since we're not using optional rules. So, would it be accurate to say that when building a mundane hacker, feel free to neglect mental attributes? Handicapable Troll just has to push the Hack button and he can pull of Matrix moves like Neo. This may have inspired a terrible character concept.

Note that by the time all characters have what they "should have" you're out of points. Having enough Athletics, Electronics, Firearms, Influence, and Stealth and the attributes and equipment to back them up means all the characters are going to be generalists more than specialists. There's nothing wrong with that, but the points to be a specialist comes from having weak spots.

Decide up-front if you're using Piracy (Unwired) or not. If you're using Piracy, make sure someone starts out with the ability to start getting software through that means rather than spending BP purchasing it. Then invest whatever you can into building software post-chargen.

Note that rating 4 hacking programs are really not worth it. Rating 3 costs 1500Y compared to rating 4's 4000Y. Either go with rating 3 (cheap) or 6 (best). Spending 2500 for 1 die when the next two dice are only 1000 each is tossing money away.
If your commlink can't run the software, the optimization plug-in is so cheap that it's broken. Also look at ergonomic to help abuse the response degradation rules and mute.
If you're using War! (Candyman, Candyman, Candyman), the Battle Buddy Basic is a perfectly good commlink.
Make sure you understand how to upgrade response.
Don't buy operating systems. Buy the rating 5 firewall and the best System you can justify.

The idea, as I understand it, is that the semi-autonomous nature of software in the 2070s removes the need for any intellectual input from the user. What remains is the need for expertise - the software knows how to do things, but not what, where, when, etc. - so you still need the skill. This does indeed give rise to what is known as the 'script-kiddie' effect whereby a twelve-year-old with months of practice will outperform a technophobic mathematics professor, but one need only draw a parallel with computer games to make sense of that.

IIRC both optional rules (roll logic capped by program and vice versa) are in both SR4a and Unwired. The problem with the program cap is it hits TMs hard. The other option works better IMO, but then I play happily without either.

Piracy allows the entire team to have the same programs at drastically reduced cost, in exchange for a monthly upkeep that could be shared by the team, and mitigated, if not done away with altogether by having a competent Software guy. I would definitely recommend it when the entire team is going to be doing matrix stuff. There's definite benefits then, as everyone gets to chip in for teamwork tests and whatnot.


You'll likely want a competent Software guy. Software needs Logic.

I've done this. A "Spammerai" works fairly well, especially if you AR instead of VR. A superior method is to pair the samurai with a cybercombat Agent - it lets you present a threat on the physical and matrix plane at once, which is something most people aren't equipped to defend against. If the matrix side needs help, the street spam can always take cover and turn some of his passes and attention matrix side.

The way I did it was to get as high a reaction as I could, decent dodge, some language skills for insulting people to pay attention to me, then added some generalist hacking. The idea being more of a front line hacker, someone who can deal with techskills while on the front lines instead of sitting in the team van. In practice, he operated more like the groups tank, making distractions and convincing people to shoot him instead of the real threats on the team, like the mage, or the luchadore adept. Sadly, the game was rather short lived due to real life rearing it ugly head.



The main strength of a matrix warrior lies in first strike capabilities, and being able to saddle your opponent with dice pool penalties.

The matrix is really like submarine warfare. Its like a vast ocean, with lots of stuff hiding in it(with stealth) and you've only got your trusty sonar(analyze) to tell you what's really out there.
The best thing a matrix warrior can do is Crash enemy sonars - if they can't see you, they can't raise Restricted Alerts on you; the important distinction being no +4 firewall bonus. If you don't have the relevant program on the matrix, then you're not able to make the test. Which means without an Analyzer, your Stealth cannot be opposed. Its still possible to raise an alert against you through the access log, particularly if passkeys or alchemical passkeys are involved(unwired for details), but this typically takes a few Combat Turns for the access log to be written before that can happen.
In Crash-Offs,(Run Program is a complex, and Crash Program is complex, but doesn't always work) its important to have an edge in actions.(you want to disable and hamstring your opponents AND make forward progress at the same time) Whether that's 5 pass VR, or 2-4 and bringing along another 3 from an agent.

Using aggressive matrix tactics is entirely viable, but its often quicker to stealth crack.

Well, teamwork tests can provide a nice bonus if the "main" character has a sufficient skill (bonus dice are capped by that). Also, having multiple people on the job allows you to play the intrusion much like a meatspace B&E job: Several guys probe the firewall, then one infiltrator goes in and opens a backdoor for the rest of the team, one guy scans for the paydata while another one takes care of the IC...
And regarding the role of the combat experts, it's the same as outside the matrix: If you have several sams on the team, you don't create a scenario where stealth is paramount and nobody should realize that an intrusion took place

Why would it hit a TM hard? Just use Threading to increase the CF Rating. Problem Solved.

Actually, Rather than using first strike capabilities, I use Stealth until it is cracked, and then go into combat mode. Drop a few baitworms, and a combat IC or two, and then move on. Works remarkably well.

As you say, Agressive is good, and it can be workable, but I have found that Stealth first tends to yield better results.

Because the TM would still only drop dice equal to Logic+Skill. Sure he can thread exploit to 9 but getting 9 hits on 12 or 13 dice isn't exactly common.

But since all Hackers/TM's operate under the same rules, it is not a problem. We have used this rule for almost 2 years now, and have had no problems with it at all. In fact, TM's have it better, because all they need to do is Thread the CF to uncap their hits limit. If a hacker wants more hits, he either has to purchase a higher rated program, or spend Edge to bypass Hit Caps.

How often were you hackers/TMs coming up against the program rank hit limit? To me it still feels like a pretty big reduction in power to a TMs perks.

Well, My Cyberlogicain has rating 6 programs for the most part (with a couple above 6). I think I hit the cap once or twice (He has 16 Dice, I think, Cannot remember exactly). The Technomancer runs with Rating 6+ CF's on all the important ones, and has about the same number of dice. He does not hit caps on his 3 primary CF's (Spoof, Exploit and Stealth are all at 8, I think). Runs up against some of the lesser used CF's (These are at 4's and 5's, though there are very few of these) Hit Caps though.

Of course, we are not using DP's of 20+ either, so the Hit caps are an occasional thing, not a constant.

+1 When I used that option I found technos to be more powerful than hackers just because of threading. I eventually dropped using that optional rule cause of it, and some inconsistencies with things like exploit, and hacking a system.

I found this to be perfectly accurate. Our first "test campaign" featured my friend as a mundane hacker and we found the program cap to work well. When we kicked off our full campaign my gf's TM was frustrated very quickly so we switched it up and it worked just as smoothly as the program cap did for the mundane. So YMMV based on the hacker...though a campaign of nothing but hackers and TMs would throw things for a loop.