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GunnerJ
I should say "new" physad powers, because one is a mechanical reworking of Knack, and two others are things that have been requested for a while. Just a note, an asterisk implies that multiple levels can be taken.

Innate Spell*

Cost: Based on drain level of the spell: .25 for L, .5 for M, 1 for S, 2 for D. Variable drain level spells use the highest possible.
Description: An ability the adept posseses which mimics the effect of a spell.
Effects: The adept makes a skill test, using his/her Magic attribute in place of Sorcery. No pool dice may be added, but totem or elemental bonuses may apply. No drain must be taken, and the spell operates at a Force equal to the level of this power. All Innate Spells must be GM-approved, but for guidelines, an Innate Spell should be touch range and/or the adept should be the target, and the spell should not be covered by existing physad/mentat powers. Maximum level is the adept's Magic attribute.

Enhanced Evasion*

Cost: .5
Description: The physad is capable of inhumanly fast reflexive movements in response to incoming attacks.
Effects: Add 1D6 to all dodge tests for each level of this power. Maximum level is the physad's reaction or Magic attribute, whichever is lower.

Greater Speed*

Cost: 1.5
Description: The physad can naturally run faster than normal metahuman abilities allow.
Effects: Each level increases the physad's running multiplier by one. Maximum level is half the physad's Magic attribute.

Wall Walk

Cost: 2
Description: The physad is capable of walking along surfaces perpendicular to the ground as if he/she were on the ground.
Effects: As per description. After a number of combat turns equal to the physad's magic attribute, the physad must make a drain resistance test using Willpower against (Turns so far - Magic)M stun every combat turn.

Ceiling Walk

Cost: 4
Description: The physad is capable fo walking upside down as if rightside up.
Effects: As per description. Includes the benefits of Wall Walk, and can be upgraded to from Wall Walk for the difference in power points. After a number of combat turns equal to the physad's magic attribute, the physad must make a drain resistance test using Willpower against (Turns so far - Magic)S stun every combat turn.
Dashifen
Check out the knack for a different version of your Innate Spell.

I like the Greater Speed and Evasion concepts. Using the Knack concept linked above you could get a Knack for Gecko Crawl and get the wall and ceiling walk as one. However, because both of the "walk" powers are connected (ceiling is an upgrade of wall) I'd write them as this:

Anit-Grav Walk
Cost: 2 or 4
At 2 power points, the physad is capable of walking along surfaces that can be angled up to 90 degress against the force of gravity as if they were walking on a floor. At 4 power points, the physad can walk upside down as if they were right side up.

Edit: Active reading is good. I didn't notice my first time around that you were aware of the Knack concept. I'll leave the linkage for those who may not be aware, though.
Jason Farlander
Greater speed costs way to much to be worthwhile. In a preliminary version of essentially the same power, I have the cost per level set at .5, and that includes +1 die for running tests. On consideration, I think that .75 per level would be more reasonable.

My rationale? Ask yourself what benefit the power provides to the player... why would a player take the power. If the answer is only "to be able to run faster than anyone else" then, in your version, his points would be better spend on 6 levels of improved athletics. He could still be beaten by someone with kid stealth cyberlegs, only a single level of that power in addition to the levels of improved athletics would pretty much guarantee success. Beyond being able to always win in a footrace with his fellow people, what benefit does that power grant? At the cost you give, the answer is "nothing particularly worth the cost."

Lets say that, at 1.5 points per level, Joe the Physad buys that power as many times as he can at chargen. WIth your half magic limitation, he now has the ability at level 3. His running multiplier is now 6, which looks cool on the character sheet. With a quickness of 6, he runs at a speed of 36. With athetics 6 and a decent roll, this might increase to 60. Not bad, but not really good enough to matter -- once you get beyond human, the only thing youd ever outrun is a motorscooter, and I, personally, dont think spending an extra 3 power points is worth being able to outrun a scooter, especially since he wont even be able to improve the power until after 2 initiations.

My version: At .75 points per level, which includes a +1 die to running tests per level, Joe buys 6 levels of great speed (he cant get more levels than he has magic). He runs at a base speed of 56, and an average athletics roll will increase that to 108. He can now outrun a CN jackrabbit, fort americar, or ares roadmaster -- with a good roll, he could outrun a harley scorpion. That seems much more meaningful to me without being completely ridiculous, as he will have to initiate several times in order to get anywhere close to keeping pace with a racing bike or turbocharged car.

Other than that, I rather like the other powers, though I see no particular advantage to your version of Knack over the original version (which is not to say that I dont see a difference; rather, I dont see how the differences make it better)
BitBasher
Enhanced Evasion is FAR, far too cheap at .6 for each level giving you an extra die on ALL dodge tests.

I know this beacuse I have used it in my game. biggrin.gif

Here's the thing. If a player was to take 3 magic points worth of this power (level 6) then he adds 6 dice to every single dodge test. This means if he gets attacked 3 times in any given combat round he was essnetially given 18 combat pool dice for free, and in especially hairy situations this just gets worse and worse.

I priced it at one magic point and it was still wholly imbalanced for what you got out of it. If anything make it add a "dodge pool" equal to the level of the power that is spent and refreshes like any other dice pools. Then, this power is quite workable, although I feel it is still too cheap at .5 per... I mean compare it to Combat Sense for cost, when combat sense the vast majority of the time is used for the extra combat pool and not the surprise bonuses.

A better idea may be to make the power cost .5/1/1.5/2 and so on, increasing the cost by .5 each time its taken, that way it is if I recall half the price of combat sense.

Innate spell, as mentioned above was handled by Knacks...

The wall walk and cieling walk I believe is antithetical to the feel of a physad, specifically the fact that movement is not restricted, implying that it's altering gravity around the physad, not giving the physad a new physical power. Make it like Gecko crawl so that the physad is affected by gravity normally, but can stick to the floors and ceiling with some effort and a lowered (half?) movement rate representing that effort, and I feel that it "feels" a lot better as a physad power and meshes better with the way physads are constructed. I would make that a flat 2 point power and have no drain. The drain makes it feel waaay too much like a mage and not like a physad.

Incidentally, may close attention to physads taking spells, they can be very, very imbalancing in some cases.
Lantzer
I admit I tend to think that if someone wants spells, they should go the phys-mage route. The physmage was put together entirely for those folks who want both spell ability and adept powers. Some people might argue that it's overkill because they want just one spell. It might be - but I've noticed that physmages tend to have a small spell list anyway, so its not much of a loss. No one is forcing you to take alot of spells.

I like my adept powers to be kind of subtle -i.e. having your own personal gravity orientation is a bit much for me. So, that said, here's my opinions:

Innate spell, wall/ceiling walk - Go physmage.

Greater speed - I'd avoid it - the running multipler is a function of body shape and mode of movement. It'd be more consistant to buy up Quickness or athletics. Yes, I know that for a char with a high quickness already, increasing the running multiplier is a lot more efficient - I'd suggest getting rollerskates or a skateboard then.

Evasion - Hmm. I don't really have a problem with the concept behind the power. I like a physad who is good at dodging. Problem. What is normally used to dodge with? Combat pool. Compare to Combat Sense. That's what I usually take to increase my combat pool so I can dodge better. Your proposed power is hands-down better. (BTW the other way I increase combat pool is to increase Int or Quickness)

As a suggestion, there are two reason why people want to make new physad powers:
1) The current playtested system has no way to do something cool.
2) The current playtested system requires tradeoffs to do something cool.

I have no problem with #1. I'll gladly help find a way to make it work - but like the rest of the system, it will require tradeoffs. I have a problem with #2. My feeling could generally be summed up as "suck it up and pay for it". I guess it comes from being an old Champions GM/Player - I'm perhaps hyper-sensitive to attempts to get more for less.
Rev
QUOTE
Innate Spell

Any such power should have a drain resistance test.

QUOTE
Innate Spell...Maximum level is the adept's Magic attribute.
Enhanced Evasion...Maximum level is the physad's reaction or Magic attribute, whichever is lower.
Greater Speed*...Maximum level is half the physad's Magic attribute.

All physad powers are limited to magic attribute, so these are bassically all redundant. Personally I don't like limiting the speed and evasion ones in a special way, why not just make it increase running multiplier by 0.5 (rounded down) and use the regular rule, and drop the reaction thing?

I would agree that 1.5 is probably too costly for +1 running multiplier. I think 1 would be good.
GunnerJ
Re comparisons to knack: what I didn't like about Knack is its way of handling the spellcasting. I just wasn't a fan of using the force of the spell as the number of dice to be rolled. My version imitates the critter power, which uses Essense for the test, and which is analagous in metahumans to using the Magic attribute.

Re the cost of greater speed: I am in theoretical agreement with the idea that it costs too much, and that it should not have a special modifier. So, I will revise it to say that it conly costs 1 point and does grant an additional Running die.

Re Enhansed Evastion compared to Combat Sense: Combat Sense has a place in that it adds to Combat Pool, which is used for far more than just dodging. Every time a character has taken Combat Sense, as far as I have observed, it was used for all applications of Combat Pool, and was useful in surprise tests as well. Enhanced Evasion just adds to dodging. Not as varied or useful, IMO. I don't have a problem with the power making it very easy for a physad to dodge, that's the fricken point. Note also, the description says that dice are added to dodge tests. If one does not have any Combat Pool (used it to attack or soak damage) one cannot dodge, and thus there is nothing to add too, and the power cannot be used.

BitBasher:

QUOTE
The wall walk and cieling walk I believe is antithetical to the feel of a physad


Interesting. I disagree, however.

QUOTE
The drain makes it feel waaay too much like a mage and not like a physad.


Take a look at the Attribute Boost power. To be honest, I couldn't think of another limiter besides simply making it exhausting to keep up for long periods of time.

QUOTE
Incidentally, may close attention to physads taking spells, they can be very, very imbalancing in some cases.


Oh, definately. That's why GM review of intent and application is explicitly advised. Also, the guidelines are helpful for this.

Lantzer:

QUOTE
I admit I tend to think that if someone wants spells, they should go the phys-mage route.


I'm just not a fan of physmages in general. I'd rather risk allowing my players a little more power than deal with their complexity. (After all, a GM can never be overpowered by the PCs. NPCs don't have creation and advancement rules.)

QUOTE
I'd avoid it - the running multipler is a function of body shape and mode of movement.


The damage done by an unarmed attack is likewise a function of the shape of certain body parts and how they are used... but we still allow Killing Hands.

Rev:

QUOTE
Any such power should have a drain resistance test.


The Innate Spell critter power does not have drain associated with it simply because it is innate. That's why drain is not a factor. Note also that any spell a physad could take where he would actually have to worry about drain would cost one or two power points per force level... this is a fine limiter, IMO.
Rev
QUOTE (GunnerJ @ Apr 1 2004, 08:42 PM)
QUOTE
Any such power should have a drain resistance test.


The Innate Spell critter power does not have drain associated with it simply because it is innate. That's why drain is not a factor. Note also that any spell a physad could take where he would actually have to worry about drain would cost one or two power points per force level... this is a fine limiter, IMO.


There are quite a few spells with +2 drain power modifiers and medium drain including some very common ones. Levitation and magic fingers for example. These are slightly troublesome to cast even at moderate force because of thier drain power. An adept with this power would be paying 0.5pp/force and would NEVER take drain. No matter how injured, no matter what other modifiers were on them they would never ever take drain. They could cast the spell in a mana warp without fear of anything but failure. Sure they might have to roll four or five times to get the spell to succede with a big modifier, but why not roll four or five times if you can never take drain?

And thats the big problem with no drain. They can cast it 1200 times an hour (presuming they average 1 cast per combat round). The Knack power has the same problem, but even worse because they spelled out something you did not. They say that the caster gets a +2 for each sustained spell, so that means they can sustain multiple spells. Since they never take drain there is very little reason not to cast two or three spells at once. Suddently for 0.5-1 ppts a physical adept has the power to make themselves and two or three of thier friends fly simultaneously with no chance of drain, and no real chance of failure given, at worst, a couple minutes of trying to cast the spell.

Personally I liked the mechanic behind the innate spell edge in sr2. It was really hard to cast a spell, and you would very often take drain from it. That would have made a good adept power. I think it was magic/2 force, drain resisted by willpower.

It is a game balance thing. Critters don't have to be carefully balanced because they aren't player charachters. Lots of adept powers have drain that should not, this particular one actually needs it.


PS fear anyone looking at the spell design rules in MITS. I think all self only spells end up being light drain, and most touch limited spells. Wohoo self-only shapechange force 4 with no drain for 1pp, just roll and roll till you meet the threshold!!
GunnerJ
QUOTE
There are quite a few spells with +2 drain power modifiers


This is actually an interesting issue. I think I may have to come up with some way of accounting for this. Perhaps a time penalty: every +1 to the drain power adds a simple action to the time it takes to activate the ability.

QUOTE
The Knack power has the same problem, but even worse because they spelled out something you did not. They say that the caster gets a +2 for each sustained spell


The only reason I didn't spell this out is because I thought it was so basic as to be assumed. I was wrong, and will modify the description to include it.

QUOTE
Suddently for 0.5-1 ppts a physical adept has the power to make themselves and two or three of thier friends


Nope. It's not spelled out in the guidelines, but I wouldn't allow a buff to be used on anyone but the physad him/herself. This is why I said that the spell should be touch range and/or self only, but I should make it explicit that this is so only offensive innate spells can be used on other targets, and that buffs can only be used on the physad.

QUOTE
PS fear anyone looking at the spell design rules in MITS. I think all self only spells end up being light drain, and most touch limited spells. 


A good point. I really need to make a lot of the things I had personally assumed explicit in the description, but the concept of the power is not an actual spell which is designed, but rather a power that mimics a spell so well as to be called an innate spell. I'm going to have to rework the description to reflect the actual intent of the touch range and/or self only limitation, and to make it clear that such design features don't alter the drain code, they simply change the way the power works.

Also possible: a time between activation limit? (Can you tell how very much I don't want there to be drain for this ability?)
BitBasher
QUOTE
Take a look at the Attribute Boost power. To be honest, I couldn't think of another limiter besides simply making it exhausting to keep up for long periods of time.
Trribute boos is not actually drain really, it's the crash. It doesnt happen after the power is activated, it happens after a random number of turns at the end of the boosted period. The wall walk power is not about a physad using magic in their bodies the way you have it written, it's a gravity manipulation spell plain and simple.
GunnerJ
QUOTE
Trribute boos is not actually drain really, it's the crash.


Likewise, the "drain" suffered by a physad using Wall Walk isn't really drain, or it would occur right after activating the power, instead of a few comabt turns afterward, and at regualr intervals thereafter. I'm willing to admit that it was an error to use the term drain, but if we're going to quibble about what's "really" drain and what isn't, then the fatigue that accompanies use of Wall Walk is more like that of an Attribute Boost than real drain.

QUOTE
The wall walk power is not about a physad using magic in their bodies the way you have it written, it's a gravity manipulation spell plain and simple.


I don't think this is a tenable position, because a physad neither has to make a Sorcery test against a certain TN at a given range to activate either Wall Walk or Ceiling Walk, nor does a physad have to declare a force level to use either of them at, nor does the fatigue that results from its use kick in directly after activation. All these things would have to be required if it were a gravity manipulation spell.

At any rate, the issue of whether Wall and Ceiling Walk, as described, are spells or physad abilities is far from "plain and simple."
BitBasher
Question, with your take on the wall/ceiling walk do they have to keep in contact with the wall? Or can they actually run, IE leave contact with the surface they are running on. You cannot actually run without leaving contact with the ground. That's where my "lower the movement speed" suggestion/question was coming from, and why I think it works a lot more like a spell than an adept power. I mean can someone stand on the cieling and jump, away from the ceiling and then fall up to land back on the ceiling or do they simply fall off the wall/ceiling when they lose contact?

I also dont think a power of this nature should have drain at all, especially not every round.

I explained myself pretty piss poor in my last post biggrin.gif
GunnerJ
QUOTE
Question, with your take on the wall/ceiling walk do they have to keep in contact with the wall?


When the power is in use, the wall itself becomes conceptually equal to the ground. So, no. You can run, jump, and still be "grounded" to the wall or ceiling. Only through volition or any other event which would deactivate the power can this orientation change.

I realize this invokes certain technical quandries, but these arise from a scientific or rational deconstruction of what should be properly viewed as an irrational and conceptual exercise, namely, a magical power.

QUOTE
I also dont think a power of this nature should have drain at all, especially not every round.


This was done to limit its use to short bursts as opposed to a common practice. I am open to suggestions on how else to achieve this end without an explicit time limit.
BitBasher
I'm going to bow out of this thread now, before I start ranting about how this is so far beyond the scope of an adept power in my opinion I just really cant even reconcile it with myself.

Sorry. frown.gif
GunnerJ
S'ok. We've all got different POVs. I'm not even sure I'd mind listening to your "rant," tho.
GunnerJ
Revisions:

Innate Spell*

Cost: Based on drain level of the spell: .25 for L, .5 for M, 1 for S, 2 for D. Variable drain level spells use the highest possible.
Description: An ability the adept posseses which mimics the effect of a spell.
Effects: The adept makes a skill test, using his/her Magic attribute in place of Sorcery. No pool dice may be added, but totem or elemental bonuses may apply. No drain must be taken, and the spell operates at a Force equal to the level of this power. If there are modifiers to the drains power, this effects the time it takes for the Innate Spell to activate; every +1 for the Drain Power adds a simple action to the activation time. Sustained Spells impose a +2 modifier to all actions while sustained, but this can be partially offset by the Focused Concentration edge. All Innate Spells must be GM-approved, but for guidelines, buffs may only be used on the Adept him/herself, offensive or negative effect spells should act at touch range, depending on the GM's opinion, touch range or self only targeting may or may not actually lower the drain level, and and the spell should not be covered by existing physad/mentat powers. Maximum level is the adept's Magic attribute.

Enhanced Evasion*

Cost: .5
Description: The physad is capable of inhumanly fast reflexive movements in response to incoming attacks.
Effects: Each level of this power adds 1D6 to a special Dodge Pool. This pool is used to augment combat pool for the purposes of evasion tests. It acts like any other pool, mechanically, and has the same limitations as any other pool being used to augment any other skill test. It refreshes every initiative pass. Maximum level is the physad's reaction or Magic attribute, whichever is lower.

Greater Speed*

Cost: 1
Description: The physad can naturally run faster than normal metahuman abilities allow.
Effects: Each level increases the physad's running multiplier by one and grants the physad an additional D6 for Running tests. Maximum level is half the physad's Magic attribute.

Here's a new one. We have Killing Hands if we want to do physical damage with unarmed attacks, but what if we simply want to do greater stun damage with unarmed attacks?

Hammer Fists*

Cost: 1 or 2
Description: The physad can hit harder with every unarmed attack.
Effects: This power allows the physad to do greater stun damage with unarmed attacks. Unlike Killing Hands, it does not bypass Immunity (Normal Weapons), but it can be used in Astral Space. The one point version raises the base Unarmed Attack damage code to (STR)S stun, the two point version raises it to (STR)D stun.
Neon Tiger
For the Wall/Ceiling walk, straight from the Adept Handybook:

ADHESION
Cost: 1
Source: greve@fusebox.hanse.de
Author: Georg Greve
The Adhesion power gives the PA the ability to make parts of his body adhesive to objects (it works more like magnetism than glue but it works on all material). The adhesion power has a very limited range (only up to the outer border of the PA's aura) and can be controlled in a way that allows the PA to say "I make my left palm and my right foot adhesive" and can be turned on/off instantly. The maximum weight that can be supported by the Adhesion power is equal to the maximum lifting weight ( Strength * 20 ) plus the character’s own weight. When combined with the "Traceless Walk" power the Adept doesn't apply pressure/force to the object he is adhesive to. Pressure sensors will not recognize him and so on.

And:

SPIDER WALK
Cost: 1
Source: jumbler@gmx.net
Author: Jumbler
Using this power, the Adept is able to move along walls and ceilings (almost) like on normal ground. The adept can support his own weight, plus 15 kg for every point of strength he possesses, be them magical or cybernetically enhanced.
All combat-related tests are at a +4. If the adept tries to run and fails an athletics(6) test, he looses touch and falls down.
Note: Beware that the adept is just able to literally "hang around" in some places. Never, NEVER, is gravity reduced or somehow changed. All objects the adept drops will fall to the ground. The same is for clothing, so any adept hanging around upside down should think twice about wearing capes and coats and stuff like that. They might get in the way.
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