I'm sorry to start another one of these threads, I know there have been too many already, but if we could all pull out our dead-horse-beating-sticks, I'd appreciate some opinions on this particular case:
Restating the headings, if an Otaku were the subject of a free spirit's Hidden Life power which gives, among other things, immunity to age, would this prevent/delay the fading? Nevermind how it happened, or why a free spirit would agree to this sort of thing or anything like that.
Thanks.

Doh. You asked a different question in the text than you did at the actual question bit. I said Yes, thinking that that meant "Yes, it prevents fading" but then I re-read the question and found it means the opposite!

So: -1 vote on yes and +1 vote on no if possible.

Physical age is not what fades, but rather the shift in world view that comes from mental aging. So Immunity to age just means that the Otaku becomes even more bitter and jaded being trapped in a young body (ala that youngin vamp in Interview)
However, an Otaku that suffers specific brain damage that they never age mentally would potentially never fade.

Oh, so I guess we can prepare our vampiric-otaku-with-weapon-focus-implanted-datajacks. Good deal.

--K

Edit: I'm joking, and it makes less sense with the post in-between.

I never claimed to be sensible, just opinionated

I would tend to agree that mental outlook is one of the main reasons an otaku fades, but this doesn't explain Red Wraith. He's a jaded (and aged) individual if I've ever seen one, so how's he get to be (and thus far stay) an otaku?

That sounds like a fun NPC. An insane, first generation otaku who can almost beat up an AI in the matrx.

Remember Red Wraith was created Otaku as an adult and Nobody knows how it works(exept maybe Deus)

Still, if our theories about fading are accurate, Red Wraith shoud've started fading the year after he was created, unless maybe he gets annual boosters from his AI?

In case anyone's wondering, I was leading towards the 'no, it won't work' option originally, and I think I'll stick with that.
Thanks.

I know the story behind Red Wraith, it's just that he seems to break all the rules. Deus (and by extrapolation AI's in general) can make otaku, but they're limited to certain systems, it seems. Red Wraith is obviously not.

My knee-jerk response is "no, that won't work" but like HoV, I do like the idea of an extraordinarily long-lived otaku that could defy the ultimate Matrix predator.

You could make lots of potential arguments for delaying or avoiding the Fading, depending on how you visualize the mechanism. I could see an argument that only time spent out-of-Matrix counts toward the Fading, for example. The "average" otaku maybe spends 10 hours a day online or whatever, but what if a person literally never jacks out and lays in bed with an IV-drip? Maybe that delays the Fading.

Or maybe Fading happens only if you don't know the Supersecret Otaku Meditation technique, which can only be learned once you submerge to Grade 5... or whatever.

--K

Anyway, I think that really the point is that like childhood, being an otaku and having all these cool powers doesn't last forever. Nor should it. As HoV suggested, the result would almost certainly be insane.

Look at the effects of hidden life. Not to mention the troubles a 12 year old may have after not aging for 20 years.

i think that given the dificulty of obtaining this result and the fact that for it to really matter your story arc will have to encompass an exceptional amount of in game time. i think that you will have to work out the specifics on a case by case basis. look at why the player made these choices. why the character made those choices. also, since they are npcs and do not have to be compelled, why did the spirit agree to this setup. although an interesting and tricky question i do not think that an overarching answer is necessary.

If the spirit hides in you after puberty, the unaging bit won't be too tough. If it was before (or worse, during), that is grounds for many mental flaws right there.

My main point: Hidden life messes up the carrier. A point value of extra mental flaws equal to the spirit's spirit energy are typical. (MitS page 118)

Spirit energy is a constant cost of 10. Increasing force is an initiation style cost plus one point of spirit energy. Spirit energy effectively adds to force for a number of uses. A 4/3 spirit is as hard to banish as a 7/0 spirit, but has spent about 54 less karma by not transferring those spirit energy to force. The downside to spirit energy is that added force gives new powers.

I would say the fading would still be in effect. Just because you might not be physically aging your mind still is. And I think it's this mental aging and experience and whatever... that causes the fading and not nessecarily the physical aging so much.

Now, you may want to say that the fading is slower or delayed because of this, and it might be the best compromise for the situation.

it depends on how you view the workings of otakuness. if you're a cyberadept, like me, you believe that otaku abilities spring from the unbelievably flexible neural structure that children have, and that Fading is simply the effects of SOTA catching up as their neurological pathways become more deeply imprinted and less flexible--the otaku's brain becomes unable to keep up with technology. in this case, yes, Hidden Life would prevent the Fading process if the otaku is 20 years old or younger (otherwise, they've already reached the age where the pathways become harder to change; freezing further growth won't change that). incidentally, this also means that elves--whose aging process apparently stops at around 24--are still subject to Fading.

if you're a technoshaman, you believe that otaku abilities spring from magic. in this case, you're a crazy person, and you should lock yourself away in a closet somewhere before other people catch crazy germs from you. the effects of Hidden Life on a magic-based otaku are unknown and unknowable until some freelancer makes a decision and gets it into print.

I personally think they still fade, Physical age isn't the issue its the mental. Kids learn quickly because everything is new to them the more experiences you get the fewer things that are new to you, the fewer things that are new the less there is to learn. And thats what cause the fading (IMO)

Chances are there's no secret Meditation technic, otherwise Pax wouldn't be bricking it (at least 7 submersion grades via Deus alone)

*pet peev* Her stats are STILL 2nd edition even in threats 2!!!!

And i might be mistaken but didn't red wraith get effected by mirage? along with all the others that had "death" as there icon motiff?