Help me picture what forms a commlink, that isn't implanted, could look like? Are we talking smart phone, wrist flip up phone, IPAD, all of the above and/or more?

Sorry if this has already been covered.

Yes. But they have the Concealability of a small pistol, I think (which is way too big, but hey).

I think all of the above. I've used everything from Tokyo Flash watches, to MP3 players, to Rugged PDAs as references.

Many people (AFAIK) let the size scale with their stats (and maybe cost). A 5/5 job can't exactly fit in your earbud… unless you payed triple for it, or something. Many 'decent' units are probably the size of a largish Android smartphone or a small tablet (like a Kindle?). It helps that most people access theirs wirelessly with DNI, so it kinda doesn't matter.

I tend to think of them as roughly PSP-sized. Small enough to fit in your coat pocket, but there's still some heft there.

SR4 Page 87 (Belt), Page 90 (Belt with wires), Page 96 (In hand and clothing), Page 97 (Under jacket), Page 98 (On belt), Page 102 (Wrist), Page 104 (Combat Vest), Page 207 (Belt, Thigh), Page 213 (Wrist), Page 247 (In hand, with Simsense Unit, Possibly Hot Sim modified), Page 299 (Wrist, and an old Cyberdeck), Page 318 (Best pic I found!), Page 323 (Accessories), . Note: NOT SR4A.

SR4A, Page 98 (On belt), Page 99 (Same as SR4), Page 105 (Belt POUCH and wires! ), Page 108 (Thigh Holster with wire), Page 109 (Belt), Page 113 (Same as SR4), Page 307 (Wrists), Page 328 (Don't really like this one, myself.).

Unwired, Page 36, Page 86 (Deckmeister working on a CommLink), Page 95 (Wrist), Page 98 (Hand), Page 100 (Hand), Page 103 (Hand, hard to see). Hm, really expected some good pics here, but there wasn't many at all.

Hope that helps.

It's hard to go by the art, because they might not know anything.

Maybe I took "Help me picture" a little too seriously.

But, yeah... I always picture it as a Smartphone on a hip or pocket (Usually an inner-pocket of a jacket), a glove with a small sensor in the palm for the "Arrow" like a mouse is used today, and a wrist-strap display screen/touchpad for viewing/typing all hooked together with wires under the clothing (Cheap models) or wirelessly connected (Expensive models), with microphones, AR gloves, and multiple optical options available (All listed in the main rulebook as gear.). Or, if you have an Image Link in the eyes and a Datajack, you can do without the glove/wrist-strap and just plug in and DNI control things.

No, I absolutely appreciate all the input. I absolutely admit that I am heavily influenced, at times, by the feel of Shadowrun-which includes the art.

It can be woven inside clothing, so I guess it can be pretty much what you want it to be. I guess it'd have at least some output to let you install your DNI and diagnose when there's a problem (a small screen or even a beeper would be enough) but that's it.

Historically, they've evolved from the previous editions cellphones which were put on the wrist (though it might be "too 2050" for the 70s crowd or ear) but with the DNI getting more and more common (for AR access), the design might have changed (more to show that you're SOTA and use a DNI commlink than for technical reasons).

Since they can get quite pricey but, at the same time, are used by everyone, the user are likely to put their own forward for the whole world to see who they are. This means something like jewelry: something you can put on your fingers, collar or wrist or you can strap to your clothes.

But I don't see a technical/style reason why it'd need to look like a 2010s smartphone.

When it comes to DNI with external commlinks, do any of you treat trode nets any differently than a datajack?
Just curious.

I mean, there kind of are *no* previous editions for this. Commlinks are new for SR4, and they ate cyberdecks and pocket secretaries, both. A typical commlink has a sim module (necessary for DNI AR, even if you don't want VR at all), and is a full VR device. Wireless is standard, though wires are possible for various reasons.

Standard, they probably are not so micro that they can be rings; that's Eclipse Phase. While the books don't really offer this option, you could theoretically have tiny commlinks that lack significant features in exchange for being micro (like in real life): no on-board sim, low Response/Signal, no camera/mic/etc., no display, whatever. As long as the tradeoffs are fair and reasonable, the GM should be fine.

RAW, datajack=trodes, but I've seen some house rules that slightly give 'real DNI' an edge on Response, etc.

If you find yourself in the iPhone mental picture, these may help: http://www.google.com/search?q=wearable+co...ng&tbm=isch

They're not shadowrun, but some of them are real and working and simply need refinement.

I'd like to, but honestly it never came up in-game with my group so I never made an official ruling.

I have had electrodes hooked up to my head, however, and it is *NOT* a fast process. 2070s tech might make it faster, like a minute. Whereas a Datajack would take a *Click*.

If I had my druthers, I'd rule that you can't Hot Sim through 'Trodes. Just Datajack. Also means BTL chips still need a Datajack. But that's just me.

I guess that works, if your goal is to make trodes even better. Now they're safe from even accidentally being dangerous.

Sorta on topic:

Cybercommlinks: are they a chip that is plugged into a socket in your head/cyberlimb or are they more "integrated" than that? Also how do you handle Cybercommlinks and SIM modules? Do they come standard with them or do you have to buy the separate SIM module?

They're miniaturized CommLinks (Larger than a chip, however) that is physically installed, so much more integrated. I'd also rule that you'd have to get the Sim Module extra, and that it should be a must-buy, but hey, maybe all the person wants is DNI AR control and not to VR at all.

Also, selling it as an "Option" nets the Corporation a larger profit as they can charge more for it.

I always pictured them as bluetooth earpieces, but I guess they are larger than that?? Seems kind of strange that they are so large...

Um, they used to be the size of keyboards and weren't wireless five years ago!

Just ask Bull, he still has his.

I know, I just have this mental picture of people talking on bluetooth headsets and it won't go away no matter how much I try to reason with canon. I usually invest heavily in my commlinks so I guess I can reason I had it specially made

Besides, the way technology advances by leaps and bounds when great advances happen I figured that they would get significantly smaller over the five year period. I mean, cmon Neonet, get with the program already.

It's been a long time since I've had Bull over to the old homestead... One of these days we'll have to do that again.

Well we have Smartphones now - since this is 2072 and they imply it can be built into almost anything, I think of a commlink like a modern cellphone headset, only it is the cell phone. Of course that would mean you'd be required to have some visual gear with imagelink to view the interface...

The 2070 version of a smartphone could well be tiny, but commlinks are devices that let you go full VR wirelessly… and they've totally replaced the functions of *all* personal computers as well. That's very different. There's no reason headsets don't exist, in exactly their current (2010) capacity: peripherals.

I would think all commlinks would be fashioned into clothing...
[img]http://www.popstrike.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/robinglove.jpg[/img]

Images are disable on DumpShock.

crap... ok, i'll just link it... Young Justice Robin's smartglove mini computer.

*Sighs* The Bat-Family get all the cool toys...

Actually, Robin's isn't that great as it's on his glove & limited to Wayne-Tech stuff. Cyborg has much better gear & implanted tech. His "commlink" would kick the crap outta everyone else's.

Back to topic... either most folks would have their commlinks looking like smartphones with AR/VR displays that connect to cybereyes/glasses/goggles/contacts or they use internal ones. People who use clothing imbedded ones are probably "on the go" adventurous folks who need freedom of mobility & "hands free".