Deep Strike 1.5
The adept ignores 50% of the target's armor in unarmed combat.
Forceful Blow 0.25 / 0.75 / 1.5 / 3
Each level of Forceful Blow adds +1 to the Power of the adept's melee attacks.
Fleet Feet 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2
Each level of Fleet Feet adds +1 to the adept's Quickness for purposes of determining movement rates.
Steel Flesh 0.25 / 0.75 / 1.5 / 3
Each level of Steel Flesh adds +1 die to resist physical damage--fists, bullets, knives, etcetera.
Illusion of Distance 0.25 / 0.5 / 1 / 2
Each level of Illusion of Distance adds +1 to the adept's Strength modifier for determining the range of thrown weapons.
Full Version: new adept powers
Deep Strike and Forceful Blow seem to be esentailly the same thing, yet they cost different amounts...
I assume you mean that they are available at 4 levels (like killing hands?)
You might want to limit them to HtH attacks, not just melee attacks (or troll adept with the lasergoofyaxe does even more damage).
Fleet feet is proabably worth only .25 a level, since you can get quickness (which does a whole lot ore than this) at .5 or 1 a level. Would this effect all movement speeds (swimming, flying?)
Stell flesh should probably be .5 a level so since resisting damage is the thing that extra body is used for. Hmm 6 levels of this for 3 magic still sounds a bit too much of a bargain...
I assume you mean that they are available at 4 levels (like killing hands?)
You might want to limit them to HtH attacks, not just melee attacks (or troll adept with the lasergoofyaxe does even more damage).
Fleet feet is proabably worth only .25 a level, since you can get quickness (which does a whole lot ore than this) at .5 or 1 a level. Would this effect all movement speeds (swimming, flying?)
Stell flesh should probably be .5 a level so since resisting damage is the thing that extra body is used for. Hmm 6 levels of this for 3 magic still sounds a bit too much of a bargain...
Deep Strike = Steel Fingers from adept handybook (.5 per impact pt negated)
Forceful Blow = Power Blow from adept handybook (.5 adds +1 to power)
Fleet Feet = Legs of Wind from adept handybook (.25 for +1 Q when determining running speed)
Steel Flesh similar to Toughness (+1d for any stun) .5 per die
couldn't find anything on illusion of distance
do you want comments about balance or to just post new adept skills for our use? Just wonderin'
Forceful Blow = Power Blow from adept handybook (.5 adds +1 to power)
Fleet Feet = Legs of Wind from adept handybook (.25 for +1 Q when determining running speed)
Steel Flesh similar to Toughness (+1d for any stun) .5 per die
couldn't find anything on illusion of distance
do you want comments about balance or to just post new adept skills for our use? Just wonderin'
edited deep strike to be unarmed-only.
i don't like the point costs for the powers you've listed from the adept book. any and all comments are appreciated.
i don't like the point costs for the powers you've listed from the adept book. any and all comments are appreciated.
Some of these are overefficient. Specifically two levels of Steel Flesh and two levels of Forceful Blow. 1 pp is pretty good for a virtual +2 body and +2 strength.
edited Steel Flesh so that it won't be effective against stuff like poison and fireballs. Forceful Blow is supposed to be relatively cheap--i dislike the idea that every melee adept has to be a musclebound hulk to be effective.
I like these powers. I'd like to point out (though only one person seems to have the misunderstanding) that Deep Strike and Forceful Blow are *not* the same, insofar as Forceful Blow will always be useful, whereas Deep Strike is only useful against armored targets.
Fleet Feet is too expensive. 0.25 pp/level should get you +1 virtual Quickness and +1 die for running tests, insofar as you are getting pretty much exactly the same benefit as Great Leap. The way it is written, there is no incentive to increase it past level 2, as it starts costing as much/more than full levels of improved quickness, which affectsa lot more than just running speed. Then again, I think its a kinda boring way to handle increased speed for adepts, and find myself a proponent of the increased running multiplier route.
Illusion of distance should be a flat .25 pp/level, as its a very restricted benefit. This is essentially the same complaint as the first complaint I have with Fleet Feet: I dont see any reason to increase it beyond 2 levels, when you could start getting improved strength - a much more generally useful power - for the same price.
Fleet Feet is too expensive. 0.25 pp/level should get you +1 virtual Quickness and +1 die for running tests, insofar as you are getting pretty much exactly the same benefit as Great Leap. The way it is written, there is no incentive to increase it past level 2, as it starts costing as much/more than full levels of improved quickness, which affectsa lot more than just running speed. Then again, I think its a kinda boring way to handle increased speed for adepts, and find myself a proponent of the increased running multiplier route.
Illusion of distance should be a flat .25 pp/level, as its a very restricted benefit. This is essentially the same complaint as the first complaint I have with Fleet Feet: I dont see any reason to increase it beyond 2 levels, when you could start getting improved strength - a much more generally useful power - for the same price.
I'm confused. Why are the first three levels of Forceful Blow cheaper than (and the fourth one equal to) their respective levels of Deep Strike? That's +1 Power on all attacks per level vs. effectively +1 Power on Unarmed Attacks and only for purposes of defeating armor (just to show the similiarities) per level. Those costs should be flip-flopped or something.
Steel Flesh covers a physical ability that's already covered by Mystic Armor (read the description for it). Sure, the effect is different, but the ability itself is the same. If you're going to include it, I think it should replace Mystic Armor instead of existing alongside it.
Steel Flesh covers a physical ability that's already covered by Mystic Armor (read the description for it). Sure, the effect is different, but the ability itself is the same. If you're going to include it, I think it should replace Mystic Armor instead of existing alongside it.
| QUOTE (A Clockwork Lime) |
| I'm confused. Why are the first three levels of Forceful Blow cheaper than (and the fourth one equal to) their respective levels of Deep Strike? |
Deep strike has the major advantage of being able to bypass armor, meaning that the insulation option on your opponents armor won't dampen your shock glove. That's easily worth an extra half a point, don't you think?
...assuming you count armor options as "armor." The power only ignores armor, not armor options. Not that it matters since Forceful Blow has the same end effect. +1 Power is effectively -1 Armor for your opponent, save that you get more benefit from the Power hike in the end (it's just as useful against unarmored or lightly armored opponents). It also applies to both the unarmed blow and the Shock Glove's Power if wearing one.
Translation: No.
Translation: No.
I was being sarcastic. Of course it's not worth it.
the advantage of these powers is that you can use them to raise your effective attribute beyond the attribute maximums. sure, no one's going to buy Forceful Blow 3 when their Str is still 5--they'd be better off gettin Imp Att. but when their Str is 6, Forceful Blow 3 suddenly becomes half as cheap as Imp Att. and when their Str is maxed at 9, they can get Forceful Blow 4, and raise it again. also, these powers don't count towards your base attribute when using attribute boost.
as others have pointed out, there is a pretty major difference between Forceful Blow and Deep Strike. how much impact armor do you normally encounter on your opponents? unless you raid high-end corporate facilities all the time, where all the guards wear security armor, the max is probably around 4 or so. beyond that, it's not really worth taking, because the extra 'virtual power' from Deep Impact is wasted on low-armor targets.
as others have pointed out, there is a pretty major difference between Forceful Blow and Deep Strike. how much impact armor do you normally encounter on your opponents? unless you raid high-end corporate facilities all the time, where all the guards wear security armor, the max is probably around 4 or so. beyond that, it's not really worth taking, because the extra 'virtual power' from Deep Impact is wasted on low-armor targets.
Uhm, that's why Deep Strike's cost is so bizarre compared to Forceful Blow, which is ALWAYS a good thing but half the cost.
it's half the cost at level 1, yes. at level 2, it matches cost, and at level 3, it's more expensive. this is commensurate with the fact that you're rarely going to punch someone without at least 1 or 2 points of impact armor; beyond that, Forceful Blow will likely be more useful--and, therefore, more expensive.
Point of clarification: When you list the costs as a/b/c/d, Are you indicating that b is the cost *in addition* to a that you must pay for level 2 of that ability, or is b the *total* cost to acquire the skill at level 2? In other words, does a level 2 forceful blow cost a total of 0.5, or a total of 0.75?
| QUOTE (mfb @ Apr 4 2004, 05:19 PM) |
| it's half the cost at level 1, yes. at level 2, it matches cost, and at level 3, it's more expensive. this is commensurate with the fact that you're rarely going to punch someone without at least 1 or 2 points of impact armor; beyond that, Forceful Blow will likely be more useful--and, therefore, more expensive. |
Uhm, no.
Deep Strike Level 1: 0.5 points; -1 Armor in Unarmed Combat only.
Forceful Blow Level 1: 0.25 points; +1 Power in all Melee Attacks.
That, alone, is backwards. Forceful Blow matches Deep Strike completely, and is more useful beyond. Yet it costs significantly less.
Deep Strike Level 2: 1.0 points; -2 Armor in Unarmed Combat only.
Forceful Blow Level 2: 0.50 points; +2 Power in all Melee Attacks.
Deep Strike Level 3: 1.5 points; -3 Armor in Unarmed Combat only.
Forceful Blow Level 3: 1.0 points; +3 Power in alL Melee Attacks.
It's not until Level 4 that they become the same cost. And again, Forceful Blow is effectively trumping Deep Strike on every possible level.
Just in case you're not seeing it, here's an example. Bubba is some nobody wageslave just walking home from work, and you, Mr. Average-in-the-Stat-Department Adept, and you're identical twin have both had a bad day so you decide to clock him one. Let's say Bubba's a careful chap and he's wearing 3/3 in armor for whatever reason. You have Forceful Blow 3 and your twin has Deep Strike 3.
You hit Bubba with a Power of 6. Your brother hits him with Power 3 but reduces his armor by 3. You both only manage to score one net successes. Either way, Bubba's still resisting a 3M stun attack.
Now let's say some other joe named Joe comes along, and he's not wearing any armor at all. You hit Joe with a Power of 6 and your brother hits with a Power of 3 but can't apply Deep Strike. You just inflicted a base of 6M on him while your brother only does 3M.
...yet Forceful Blow is the cheaper one. That's messed up.
edited Forceful Blow and Steel Flesh to reflect my apparent inability to do basic math.
i'm pondering altering Deep Strike so that it offers a straight 50% armor reduction, for a 2-point cost. opinions?
i'm pondering altering Deep Strike so that it offers a straight 50% armor reduction, for a 2-point cost. opinions?
edited Deep Strike as detailed above. this further differentiates it from Forceful Blow, and also brings it more in line with other armor-reducing mechanics.
I think I would increase it to 3 points and thus put it on the same level as Quick Strike. APDS ammo is pretty tough to come by, so an adept should have be willing to make some sacrifices to get its melee equivalent 24/7.
Most of the time, the old version of Deep Strike at level 3 would be more useful than the new version -- up to Impact-4 the old at 3 would be better, up to Impact-6 the same and worse only beyond that. You were willing to give Deep Strike at 3 away for 1.5 Power Points. Unless you've changed your mind about the balance issues of the power, 1.5-2 PPs would probably be a good cost for the "50% Off" Deep Strike.
Personally I think Quick Strike is way more useful than this would be, and thus 3 PPs would be too high a price in any case. I'd probably use 1.5 PPs if I used that Power in my games.
I think I've got a Power in my Forgotten Realms port that exactly matches the effects of the earlier version of Deep Strike. Checking what I put up as the cost of that... 0.5 PP per level.
Personally I think Quick Strike is way more useful than this would be, and thus 3 PPs would be too high a price in any case. I'd probably use 1.5 PPs if I used that Power in my games.
I think I've got a Power in my Forgotten Realms port that exactly matches the effects of the earlier version of Deep Strike. Checking what I put up as the cost of that... 0.5 PP per level.
point. edited to reflect. i went with 1.5 because i can't imagine someone taking this instead of Distance Strike, if Deep Strike had an equal or higher cost.
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