Now I am working on a new TM and seriously considering going with surge. Actually worked out how it could be the reason they are headed into the shadows (all job offers retracted, friends just not there anymore, bills from the surge forcing the selling of almost everything they owned, etc)

I got to thinking, how common are major surge characters as PCs.

I can see quite a few who pick and choose traits that make them better, but still normal. But how many pick traits that make them freaks (and rarely benefit them directly in the character's focus.. claws, fangs, animal pelage, etc don't help hackers/tms all that much)

For the character I have:(based on a pic someone showed me of a raver skunk morph)

advantages
- Fangs (5)
- Claws (5)
- Animal Pelt - Insulating (5)
- Natural hardening (10) [yeah that one helps, but TM abilites were unlocked at the same time]
- Keen hearing (5)

disadvantages
- Vestigial tail (5)
- Deformity 10pt [animal hybrid features]


This does make the character physically notable, making them more a matrix only type to a point. Not someone that can sneak in as a tech at the plant.

But the character's schooling and actual SIN does give them ways to gather and get into places most runners can't just con/sneak into (background is college grad with a bachelors in economics, but equivalency of an associates in corp law and finance with the appropriate UCAS bar/cpa licenses giving them some legit reasons for being at certain presentations, seminars, etc) due to the lack of knowledge (and lets face it a knowsoft is nice, but being legit is foolproof when the corp scans your SIN)

But how many have actually had runners that were the obvious grotesque or freakish changelings in their games? (and not just one shots, but long term)

I have to agree, for the most part about the PC building. The most "Freakish" Changeling I've used was an NPC cop, and only because of deformity (an abnormally large throat, which I consider to be the location of his Biological sonar), along with "naturally" neon green eyes and hair, giving him an almost frog-like appearance.

The concept is a good idea, though. The problem is that even if peopel are getting more adjusted to it, the character will be marginalized and remembered fairly easily.

Probably depends on the game (and the team). In a pink-mohawk-ish game where the other characters already have freak-show augmentations that make them stand out, nobody may bat an eye at a changeling (and I agree, changelings have cool built in reasons to be in the shadows). On the other end of the extreme (black mirrorshades?), where everyone is as professional as they can be and PCs have to make sure their crimes don't draw too much attention, most Runners (and Johnsons) wouldn't touch such a character, for the same reason they might avoid working with anyone with a distinctive style (which a lot of changeling qualities gives you), or a lot of the other Runner's Companion alternative concepts. Being the team known to work with a "skunk-man" is probably on par with having a naga or centaur on your team, or some rare metavariant or HMVV - in terms of standing out. Of course, if the team is willing to put up with having an anthropamorphic skunk on the team because he's a wiz hacker, they could just leave him at home when they meet the J and work remotely on the job and still keep a low profile, when they need to... but mechanically, being a changeling probably makes you a little bit worse than if you weren't a skunk furry, so it is mostly all disadvantage. Your mileage may vary, of course.

I've never actually played a changeling, although I have built a handful from time to time with every intention of doing so. I like the idea that if they're not socially accepted (because they're freaks), they would naturally gravitate to the Shadows, since they have no hope of leading any sort of normal life. I also love the idea that their qualities are genetic in nature and can pass on to their offspring, but that is the sort of fluff that is awesome, but won't actually come up in a shadowrun game.

Well I can actually see it in a black mirrorshades game as well.

A lot of street sams, trolls, orcs, etc would all stand out easily in a crowd due to metatype or augmentations. But you can also have racial lines, a black dude in a suit is still going to stand out a lot at MCT's Seattle offices.

That is what attracted me to the idea of a changeling that doesn't blend in so well. Makes you consider how they handle meets, keeping a low profile, and basically survive when everyone can identify you.. How you keep the shadow side of your life from intruding on the 'normal' one.

The matrix is the key with the concept I use, her Fixer understands the situation and has to make allowances for it (skill set is useful, and not what a lot of his stable would have coming from the streets)

I can see a fixer working on trying them out as an online negotiator and data hound at first, maybe work them into a team as an advisor and leg work helper (at reduced pay rates)


Now when they start building up credits and toys, thinks like drones and such open other options

Yeah, if your GM and other players are willing to work with you, it could work out and be a lot of fun. In general, a lot of GMs are against the idea of stay-at-home hackers/deckers already and, in those games, this sort of character would probably be problematic.

In my own game I can't honestly recall any of my players expressing an interest in SURGE. We pretty much universally revile it.

One person in my area loves them. Of course, he's a bit touched in the head.

...

OK, he's downright nuts. And consider the source!

Nobody in my group has ever played a Changeling. I did use the rules to recreate a goofy character from 3e days that was pretty freakish and pink mohawk. When Man and Machine came out I made a pink mohawk character called "Kaptain Kangaroo" using Kid Stealth Legs, Hydraulic Jack, and balance ware (like the tail). I only ever GM, so the character never got played. For the fun of it, I did a version of the character as a Changeling instead of all ware based. Again though, it's never been played.

The player that occasionally assists me as GM sees SURGE the same way I do. For somethings, like a Kaptain Kangaroo idea, it has its place. For it's pure min-maxing abilities it's not as well received.

Personally, I like to go the (cancer causing) route. I roll a die, and see what a couple of the Surges would be. Pick and choose some, roll the rest. That way the character's focus is still taken into account, but there's a lot of chance as to what may happen.

That said, I love the concept. Now I'm wondering why I never tried surging...

Just thought of a good reason to not allow SURGE.

I'm a fan of SURGE, myself. I think Tehana has expressed an interest in playing a Changeling before; the other two players are still sort of newer to the world and haven't branched much out of the corebook.

I think for me it's just a really great example of the sheer weird that the Sixth World likes to toss at its inhabitants. You get to cruising altitude, everything's going fine, and then, poof! UGE. Goblinzation. SURGE. Otaku. Virtuakinetics.

Plus, unlike orks and trolls, there's no rhyme or reason to SURGE. One guy grows seven feet tall and has (metaphorical) shovels for hands, another girl gets astral vision. It doesn't make any sense, but it's such an expression of the mutability of magic...mm.

Now, if I could ever play....

advantages:
satyr legs (10)
bicardiac (10)
celerity (5)
ogre stomach (5)

disadvantages:
unusual hair (5)
Vestigial tail (5)
deformity (5) [horse like features]


doable.. because I am evil at times

All they'd need is a tattoo on the hoop.

I've made a T'skrang face (with some variant description of traits) and an Obsidiman mage using Class III changelings before. They were for more laid back games, however. Full-blown changelings just don't make a lot of sense in more "serious" games. They're just way too recognizable to be useful as a disposable asset. Even if there's a large population of changelings in any given metroplex, you're still almost guaranteed to be unique amongst them.

But, yeah, I'll often go that route in games that aren't taking themselves too seriously and are just out to have some fun.

yeah, to a point.

Though sometimes a serious game can be about the changeling's likely short life. Unless they are able to operate as vehicle riggers/hackers of some sort (aka stay in the van, only meet through the net)

A lot of the abilites allow for insane bonuses (elf, glamour, adept of the speaker way.. )

We had few surged in a very pink mohawk game. The one I recall the most was a surged gnome paraglider with a venomous tail. He used the paraglider to land in unexpected places and then the tail plus an autoinjector full of combat drugs to wreak havoc on anything he landed near.

The others I recall were mostly fairly "normal" cat people.

Fit in fairly well in a game where previously we had lost a number of characters when the riggers van crashed and and the the people tied to the roof became road pizza. We started tying characters to the roof of the van when we realized there were not enough windows to shoot out of when we where chasing people in the van. It was a short lived experiment.

SURGE can be workable if you play up the data balkanization and overall "Wild West" aspect of the setting, but really, that can be said of 90% of the game's options. Playing a "serious" game of Shadowrun is like trying to play a serious game of Toon.

From a numbers standpoint, a Technomancer is orders of magnitude rarer and by fluff more feared/mistrusted than a SURGEling.

That's something to think about.

They're harder to recognize walking down the street, though. Which, of course, is part of the reason for the fear and paranoia.

I've always found the anti-technomancer phobia contrived and lame, though, when a hacker with an implanted commlink can do more or less the exact same thing. Even as corporate instigated hysteria, it still falls flat.

Funny, I've managed it many, many times and I've played in such games many, many times.

Toon, or Shadowrun?

Knowin' Ol' Scratch? I expect his answer to be along the lines of "both", with no other details given.

You can play Shadowrun games with plenty of grit, distopia, and pathos. It's just that I have a hard time getting into the Orwellian surveillance society, with hyper-paranoid and ultra-inconspicuous runners, some people seem to see the game as. That's what I mean by "serious game". There are too many ludicrously over the top things in the backstory of the game, and too many gonzo options for characters, for me to see that style of game as a good fit for Shadowrun.

I blame The Matrix films.

I mean, seriously, take a look at the 1st edition archetype artwork. They are about as opposite of mirrorshade / black trenchcoat as you can get.





-k

Then you don't know me that well. But yes, sometimes I assume people can put 2 and 2 together without needing their hands held. God forbid. I mean, we're on a forum dedicated to Shadowrun, in a thread discussing how a certain type of character fits in a Shadowrun game. So, naturally, I must have been talking about Toon campaigns in my previous reply.


You don't need to go overboard to have a more serious game. But you can easily play it where most of the outrageous aspects of the game are simply accepted as being normal. An ordinary troll walking down Main Street or a street magician performing a few real but minor illusions for tips is only outrageous if you compare it to the real world. It's perfectly normal in Shadowrun, however, and it won't raise that many eyebrows. At least no more than any other really big guy or street performer would today. A traditional (ie, non-player made) Class III changeling, however, will stand out like a sore thumb, just like some of those extreme body alteration freaks of today would. Doubly so since that is specifically the case in the game world; changelings are freaks in the Sixth World. Treating them appropriately is completely par of the course in a game that takes the setting seriously rather than treating it as an excuse for silliness. You know, like comparing it to Toon.

If people like that were running around committing major crime sprees, they'd get pretty damn quickly in the modern world. Same with extreme changelings in the Sixth.

Or in other words "serious" does not equal "Orwellian surveillance society, with hyper-paranoid and ultra-inconspicuous runners." It just means more believable and less "do whatever the hell you want, look however the hell you want, and party on woooo!"

Hell I'm as about anti "Pink Mowhawk" as it gets and I've managed to play a few mowhawk style sessions in twenty years or so fo gaming. I've never understood this either or approach to gaming. Yes we prefer a grittier game, but this doesn't preclude humorous moment or even session or two. We pursue a good story, no matter what style of game play it is.

50 years ago, an eyebrow ring on a young woman with day-glo hair would have been gonzo; today it's something just shy of "common," depending on where you live. But in our surveillance society - surely less intrusive than Shadowrun's - a wise young woman would take out the eyebrow ring and wear a hat if she's going to be out mugging folks, because those features are distinctive. Similarly, tattoos have become common, and have existed since forever, but a wise criminal covers his before he commits a crime.

I don't think Shadowrun's surveillance society makes it such that the characters can't have pink mohawks or steel horns or Kid Stealth legs; it just means that those things become a consideration, the same as comparative features today. They become things you have to hide, or direct attention away from, or conceal in plain sight, unless you want witnesses - never mind cameras - to be able to say, "Yeah, he was a white male ork with pink hair, backward legs, devil horns, and a Mitsubishi Nightsky with the words, 'PAYBACK: for doz dat hated on me,' painted on the side." That kind of thing really tends to narrow down the profile, you know?

Forget surveillance society, in no society ever have members of an outnumbered and outpowered criminal underclass been able to operate with impunity while not taking steps to conceal their identities. You don't rob banks without a ski mask - or the current uniform of the day, baseball hat and hooded sweatshirt - and if you're 12 feet tall and have green skin, I'd suggest slouching as much as you can and wearing long sleeves and gloves, unless you want the cops on your door. That's not about Orwellian anything, that's just how being a criminal works. Trust me, it doesn't mean you can't feel free to dress and look how you want in your off hours, but even that has to be calculated not to bring too much attention on how you live your life.

One funny thing is that you actually can look like a fairly normal dude even with SURGE III.

As for sticking out, it really depends on the nature of relationship between criminals and the law. If they're actively antagonistic, you can run into problems. If they're not or actually working together, it might actually be good to be distinctive so law enforcements and others know not to even bother checking out the crime. You can get groups like the Yakuza who have their accents and styles of dress and just blatantly do their crimes. It's a gamut in the SR world and interpretations of the SR world vary. What is and is not common also varies from group to group.

Pink mohawk to black trenchcoat is more of a continuum that two either-or sides. I prefer more towards the pink mohawk side, but not to the point where there are no consequences to player actions whatsoever. I don't have a problem with "If you are furry and green, you should probably wear a trenchcoat." I have more of a problem with "If you are furry and green, then you wouldn't last 10 seconds as a shadowrunner."

Because honestly, the game is chock-full of really distinctive-looking character options and heavy firepower, while the guns you would think a shadowrunner would use are generally out of reach at char-gen unless you take restricted gear. A monofilament chainsaw? A belt-fed machine gun? Go wild. A gun made out of ceramic components with chem-sealed clips? A gun that can be broken down into innocuous-looking parts to be smuggled into an area? Whoa there!

I'm not sure anyone's arguing that. I know I'm not. I'd agree with that statement if we amended it:

"If you're furry and green, and stupid you won't last as long as the guy who isn't furry and green and is smarter." That's a little closer to my own concepts. Luckily I'm not going to show up at your table and force my style on you, and there's not much chance you'll show up here and try to force your's on me!

I'm essentially saying that Distinctive Style is an actual negative trait, not just free points (or a footnote in cases where you don't get free points) for your character. All changelings have at least one rank of it, even the most normal looking of them. For most Class IIIs and other truly distinct, outrageous looking characters, they should have even higher ranks in it. If not, then there better be a damn good explanation for why your green-scaled furry monstrosity can walk down Main Street without raising any eyebrows.

That said, those that do have it are going to have a hell of a time laying low. Which is exactly why they make shitty shadowrunners. Even a single rank in Distinctive Style gives a +3 dice pool modifier on any tests made to not only identify them, but to track them down as well, with higher ranks going up to +6 (though the description is confusing since it suggests 6 ranks, meaning it should go up to a +18!!! modifier, but the text declares a maximum modifier at only 2 ranks).

If for some reason you're allowing Class III equivalent freaks run around without Distinctive Style, or never have the authorities/corporations/underworld/anyone trying to hunt them down after committing major felonies, that's your certainly your prerogative. Just don't try to claim that those who are taking the game world seriously -- including things like Distinctive Style and the hellacious repercussions that it has on major criminals -- are somehow doing it wrong. Or whatever beef it is you have with people playing the game as intended and described.

I think that you are having a Misunderstanding on how Distinctive Style Works (or maybe it is just me).

A Distinctive Style Quality has multiple levels depending upon how Outrageous it is. However, whether you have 1 level or 7 levels of Distrinctive Style (Luminous Green Skin), it is only a +3 Modifier. However, You could ALSO have a 2nd Distinctive Style (Scaly), which would impose an additional +3 (2 Actual Distinctive Styles) Modifier. You could go on to have more 5 point Distinctive Styles, but they would not add additional mmodifiers.

I know that it is semantics, in a lot of ways. Why not just have a Distinctive Style (Green, Scaly, Luminous Skin) at 10 Points for the +6 Modifier? But that is not how it is writtern. You could conceivably have a Distinctive style that is So Obvious (yeah right, like the one I am using is subtle), that it would be worth 35 points, and it would still only net a character a +3 Modifier. Not sure why it was written that way, but there you go. *shrug*

For note: I rarely use Distinctive Style as a Quality. Normally, I get it for free baased upon how I do things anyways. *shrug*

Locally, there've been two, *maybe* three players who, when they found out that they could play cat-themed 'furry' types, jumped all over it.

Aside from that, no, no one's ever dabbled in Surge types that I'm aware of. I'll poke around a bit, tho, see if anyone knows otherwise.

One big problem is most are not considering the reason the character is one I want to play.

You have a character with little in the way of skills other than face type skills, corporate manager/accountant skills. Suddenly burdened with a form that makes them far from desirable in the corporate world (horizon might accept them). With or without being a TM that causes issues.

The best way to put those skills to use is in the shadows, a realm they have no experience with (other than slumming once or twice). And with the burden of having to figure out how to do it when being easily picked out of a crowd.

They will face far more distrust and bias against themselves in person, making the matrix a clear career path. But they are far from skilled there. So the early runs are going to be tough, or where they serve as data finders for other runners

It's the challenge of playing a character that has the skills and knowledge to be a serious corporate star, but unable to do so because of a serious roll of snake eyes in the game of fate. And then trying to find a path in the shadows that lets them survive

Much like trying to be a troll character when goblinzation first hit, but being the only one on the continent

My SR campaigns have had only one SURGE'd Character, and she's an NPC reference to a previous campaign in a different game.I don't dislike SURGE, so much as worry greatly about it's abuse, and my players getting more Pink Mohawk with it. They've already performed a B&E by throwing the Bear-Shaped Shaman through a brick wall, it'd be far harder to hide afterwards if they were all green.

Exactly! In all seriousness, however...



I really do agree with this. Most people I play with still try to break beyond Pink Mohawk. But I honestly enjoy a happy medium, a tad closer to Mirrorshades. Usually, It winds up being Mirrorshades with neon lights/goth dance club. A little over the top, being chased down a busy freeway, with the troll firing a panther cannon indiscriminately out the back of the van at the armored pursuers. Most of the other times, up before it all breaks down, they've been professionals about most everything.

I don't consider blade-runner on that continuum.

To be fair you can get silliness on the other end as well. My favorite are the nightly weigh for RFID tags games*. Nor is a single level of distinctive feature going to turn a character unplayable.

On a related note, how many GMs use the legwork rules against the PCs? Asking your standard Fixer about the PCs is 9 dice (Intuition 5 + Shadowrunner Teams 4). That's three hits on average. He can easily get 8 hits if the fixer does the extended tests looking around with buying hits and -1 die per roll. That's likely to get a ton of stuff on the PCs.

I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to make the Blogger to be able to get actively erased information via buying hits on data search (hot sim vr and browse 6 is 13 dice which is 18 hits). You can really do end in the situation that's in the early SR adventures where everyone and their dog already knows where the PCs live and hang out.

As for my games, we tend to go over the place on the Pink Mohawk / Black Trenchcoat spectrum. Typically it's careful planning with bursts of ultraviolence.

*- Seriously think about the logistics of doing that

I do that sort of thing when the player's actions warrant it. Usually they at least try to do things smart and cover their tracks. But when it's something truly major, they're going to have to work to stay out of the spotlight.

I'm not saying playing a changeling shouldn't be a challenge if you pick on of the more extreme versions, and I've never argued that they don't automatically have Distinctive Style (per the rules). But if they and other options, such as Nartaki, Wakyambi, minotaurs, and such are more or less unplayable, then why the hell are they in the game? Maybe it's to accommodate the widest array of possible play styles on the aforementioned pink mohawk/black trenchcoat continuum, but it gives the game a really schizophrenic feel sometimes. And it results in a lot more things that are "trap" options in certain games, as if we didn't already have enough of those (Uncouth flaw, etc.).

The trouble with changelings being easy to find is that, really, nearly everybody is easy to find for an entity with a megacorporation's resources. Your best bet is to try not to rile them up enough to look that hard. I think a changeling that stays within the certain unwritten rules of shadowrunning might be in less danger than a bland-looking human who just blew up a downtown office building to cap off a data extraction run.

I never once said they were unplayable (and, incidentally, all of the options you mentioned have Distinctive Style as well). But if you're a typical careless player who just likes to go around blowing drek up, the consequences be damned, playing one of those options is going to be an especially stupid choice because you specifically won't be able to go around blowing drek up without getting caught a few hours later. Distinctive Style all but makes sure of that. And rightfully so, because by possessing that trait, you do stick out like a sore thumb even amongst the other strangeness of the Sixth World.

Even smaller crimes are more dangerous for them for that very reason. While other runners can go and lay low until the heat dies down with relative ease, changelings and other freaks don't really get that luxury.

If you're not prepared to deal with that sort of thing, and don't have the brains as a player to handle it (which most people don't but think they do), such options are very, very bad character choices. Unless, of course, the GM is either running a ridiculous "Toon" game or otherwise has trouble telling people "no." The latter of which, also, is sadly very common.

Addressing the OP's original post regarding playing a SURGEd skunk technomancer forced into the shadows, as long as the GM and other players are happy with both the distinctive stlye and the stay-at-home hacker aspects of the character, go for it! Former wage slaves uncomfortable with the shadows they have for whatever reason been forced into offer great scope for roleplaying.

My group have never dabbled in SURGE, partly because our game is on the gritty black trenchcoat side of the spectrum, and partly because my players know I would not allow most of the one-trick SURGElings that are usually posted on this forum. So in answer to the title of this thread, changeling PCs are pretty rare in my game world.

Can you give an example in your games of a changeling or metavarient character not laying low enough to avoid serious consequences, but if they were a regular metahuman, they would have avoided those serious consequences?

I think you're misunderstanding my point.

In a nutshell, such characters have to do nearly everything "six dice better" than their less conspicuous counterparts. Whether it's using a fake SIN ("identifying them") or avoiding being trailed ("tracking them"), they need to counter those extra dice the bad guys are granted courtesy of their Distinctive Style. Thus they literally have to work harder at doing all of that sort of thing simply because of how much they stand out.

We have had changelings in out group for a while. But usually one one player plays Class 3. I alot of character concepts look at class 1 though. Class 1 can be pulled of pretty easily without being too bad. Our current freak is either class 2 or 3, I'm not sure which. But he does have sayter lags and elongated limbe (as a fomori). So he's a pretty big freak.

Mind you our games tend to be black mohawk, mirrored trenchcoat, or pink shades kinds of worlds.

-D

Yeah. In several games one of the things that's benefited the PC's is they look just like everyone else, so tracking them is made pretty difficult because when asked the witnesses can not reply "Well he had a vestigial tale, a third eye and purple scales."

At any rate I don't think anyone is saying SURGEd character can't be played. Just that some of us prefer not to play them.

We go pink-mohawk for most of our games(or pink 'hawk with a black coat now and again), but the character limits are done more on a ''be reasonable'' level. Save Cthulhu-man, Superhero of the Shadows, for the REALLY pink 'hawk games. If you want to be a changeling in an 'average' 'hawk style game, be a little bit more sensible about the choices.

I myself have a Satyr-leg Elven changeling. Legs, long limbs, horns, with lots of might-increasing cyberware, reflex recorder on his kicks, Tae Kwan Do/Muay Thai loaded up, and he runs as a pit fighter in bloodsport underground pits whose quite a fan favorite with people due to his rather extreme combat. He's not a 'regular' character though-he's someone who I have on hand for more 'pink' games.

However, I also think there can be *room* for changelings if the players are clever and a GM works with them. For example, my fellow that I mentioned? He definitely is odd compared to like, regular everyday people-but the bloodsport pit that he fights in doesn't care how he looks, and he can fit in well with say, a Freaks club-and people who have street-level information there would likely be more willing to trust him than they would Trenchcoat McMirrorshades, who would, in his OWN way, stick out in a freak club from being too normal.

But yeah-they most definitely have issues in *straight up ultra ice cold pro* games, and I wouldn't suggest them unless it was qualities that were very very VERY minor that you could pass off as cyber(eye color for example.)