Full Version: Yet another book thread
So, I have SR4, Runner Companion, Unwired, Arsenal, Street Magic, Runner Havens, Running Wild and Augmentation. Which of the books/ebooks and supplementals are worth getting besides WAR! which I have seen to be panned. I was considering getting a few of them such as way of the adept, but i want to know if the other supplementals are any good. Ty in advance.
I think the Sixth World Almanac is worth spending money on. Seattle 2072 is okay if you're able to overlook how much opportunities they just passed up, and how little effort seems to have gone into it-that aside it's a solid setting piece, that is useful for a Seattle based campaign. Also if you don't have an SR4A then I'd definitely consider it-it's obviously not essential, but it is a pretty book and step up from the quality of the basic edition.
Runner's Black Book is a solid buy, and you get a lot of e-books in it combined in one smaller package.
(Smaller than the binders I had from printing out the e-books, that is.).
(Smaller than the binders I had from printing out the e-books, that is.).
This will likely be controversial but I personally avoid the adventure books-Ghost Cartels, etc...I just don't prefer them. I buy them because I am a completionist. Also I think Corporate Enclaves is among one of the worst setting books I've purchased. (Not the worst, but I greatly disliked it. Especially the LA chapter.) Now obviously everyone will have their own preferences-and this is not to say I hate the authors or some such silliness. Just how I feel about the product I purchased for my own personal use.
what was it about the la chapter that you disliked? And anyone like unfriendly skies etc?
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 10 2011, 10:50 PM) 
what was it about the la chapter that you disliked?
Everything. It tries to cover too much in too little space, and concentrates on a number of things I find uninteresting at best; and downright awful in some cases: the PITO network is beyond awful for me and I don't know how it made it past the editing staff at Shadowrun; the Deep Lacuna gets not nearly enough attention; and frankly the disaster that must be one of THE defining moments of LA history is covered in too little depth for my tastes; Horizon seems like it wants to be interesting but frankly I just can't get invested into it.
This is also a personal quibble-but do the same posters have to appear in every book? I mean seriously we can't have locals commenting on the various goings on. Instead we get the same tired Mary Sues. Sigh. To me it's all missed opportunities.
QUOTE
And anyone like unfriendly skies etc?
Opportunities Missed. If you don't mind getting recycled materials it's not bad stuff. But there is little that's new, and nothing immediately jumps out as wow! I do, in it's defense like the reversion to one page, one item.
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 10 2011, 11:50 PM)
And anyone like unfriendly skies etc?
Not so much, but it's a good book for GMs who need to have stats for a Jumbo Jet or some such during a hijacking.Let's face it, sometimes that Bullet-Proof Fake SIN isn't so Bullet-Proof after all.
So currently i have in my cart: Black Book, Way and almanac.... anything else I should snag?
How is attitude? Just fluff? Also, spy games?
Not gonna lie, not a fan of either Sixth World Atlas or or Attitude. Both were wasted opportunities.
What 6WA should have been was the English version of Die .6 Welt. It should have been the perfect companion to SR4A, detailing most of the major plots and players in Shadowrun history, the actual Shadowrun history (not a bunch of random "what the heck does this have to do with Shadowrun again?" clippings with commentary) and a good rundown of the current political spectrum in the 6th World. What we got instead was barely worth a page and full of shadowtalk.
(Compare it to what Die .6 Welt is; frankly, it's one of the few reasons I would want to learn German.)
Attitude was...sloppy. Badly edited. It should have been an update to Shadowbeat, not a vehicle for fiction about a character no one cared about and random topics that had no connection to, uh, 6th World pop culture, entertainment, or shadowrunning culture. Which doesn't touch on the cover, which a) looked like it was traced from a picture of Angelina Jolie and b) crystalized everything a book on culture in Shadowrun shouldn't be.
I've got no interest in Spy Games - doesn't jive with the version of Denver I run - and the Horizon adventures haven't sounded appealing either. I am interested in the Way pdf, and we've got Conspiracy Theories on pre-order, pretty much because myself and my wife love conspiracy theories, and the blurb sounded interesting.
However, you should take my word with a grain of salt; I'm not the biggest fan of CGL currently.
What 6WA should have been was the English version of Die .6 Welt. It should have been the perfect companion to SR4A, detailing most of the major plots and players in Shadowrun history, the actual Shadowrun history (not a bunch of random "what the heck does this have to do with Shadowrun again?" clippings with commentary) and a good rundown of the current political spectrum in the 6th World. What we got instead was barely worth a page and full of shadowtalk.
(Compare it to what Die .6 Welt is; frankly, it's one of the few reasons I would want to learn German.)
Attitude was...sloppy. Badly edited. It should have been an update to Shadowbeat, not a vehicle for fiction about a character no one cared about and random topics that had no connection to, uh, 6th World pop culture, entertainment, or shadowrunning culture. Which doesn't touch on the cover, which a) looked like it was traced from a picture of Angelina Jolie and b) crystalized everything a book on culture in Shadowrun shouldn't be.
I've got no interest in Spy Games - doesn't jive with the version of Denver I run - and the Horizon adventures haven't sounded appealing either. I am interested in the Way pdf, and we've got Conspiracy Theories on pre-order, pretty much because myself and my wife love conspiracy theories, and the blurb sounded interesting.
However, you should take my word with a grain of salt; I'm not the biggest fan of CGL currently.
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 11 2011, 12:18 AM)
How is attitude? Just fluff? Also, spy games?
Mostly fluff, next-to-no crunch. But what crunch there is, is equal to the other books rather than over-empowering things like War!/Bogota!. I suggest them on PDF if you're able to read on a screen.Yeah, they don't match up with stuff like the early Shadowrun books, but, let's face it, Nigel Findley isn't with us any longer, and Tom Dowd has gone onto other things.
Until we find a replacement for them, we got what we got, right? At least books are coming out, and the quality *IS* improving.I'd suggest the beatings of the writers continue until they match up with the older books, but I don't have that much in travel allowances.
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 10 2011, 08:12 PM)
So, I have SR4, Runner Companion, Unwired, Arsenal, Street Magic, Runner Havens, Running Wild and Augmentation. Which of the books/ebooks and supplementals are worth getting besides WAR! which I have seen to be panned. I was considering getting a few of them such as way of the adept, but i want to know if the other supplementals are any good. Ty in advance.
I would suggest Digital Grimoire.
The stuff it has is situational, but nice if you're one of the caster types that like possession spirits, new traditions, or some newer spells(more Firewater combos), and adept power. Plus, its probably fairly cheap.
In the same manner, I would also suggest Way of the Adept. Its rather awesome. If its included in black book, then it might be worth it.
I tend to avoid setting books. While most of that is kinda cool and nice to read about, not all GMs use them. If your gm doesn't have that book, and/or isn't familiar with it, then you might not get to use nifty setting stuff with it.
That being said, I rather enjoyed Seattle 2072, as it really helped fill in my gap of 'what is the real world like' knowledge for playing a convincing character(though from what I hear, perhaps some of the older books can do this as well, like shadowbeat), and Vice for elaborating a lot more on criminal activities in the 6th world.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Dec 11 2011, 04:27 AM)
I would suggest Digital Grimoire.
The stuff it has is situational, but nice if you're one of the caster types that like possession spirits, new traditions, or some newer spells(more Firewater combos), and adept power. Plus, its probably fairly cheap.
In the same manner, I would also suggest Way of the Adept. Its rather awesome. If its included in black book, then it might be worth it.
The stuff it has is situational, but nice if you're one of the caster types that like possession spirits, new traditions, or some newer spells(more Firewater combos), and adept power. Plus, its probably fairly cheap.
In the same manner, I would also suggest Way of the Adept. Its rather awesome. If its included in black book, then it might be worth it.
I'm not 100% sure on this, but I seem to remember that some of the stuff from Digital Grimoire got put into the later printings of Street Magic.
Just as a heads up.
QUOTE (Paul @ Dec 10 2011, 11:58 PM)
Everything. It tries to cover too much in too little space, and concentrates on a number of things I find uninteresting at best; and downright awful in some cases: the PITO network is beyond awful for me and I don't know how it made it past the editing staff at Shadowrun; the Deep Lacuna gets not nearly enough attention; and frankly the disaster that must be one of THE defining moments of LA history is covered in too little depth for my tastes; Horizon seems like it wants to be interesting but frankly I just can't get invested into it.
As someone who lives in LA, I really liked the section on it. I can see the natural progression of things here going in the direction in the book, and P2.0 is the ultimate, connected, social network. It is the step that social networking is going to make, and I like it is now a part of SR. We are already as nearly connected as most people in SR are supposed to be.
I would have liked a little more on the Deep Lacuna, but I like having the hooks without all of the canon bait on it sometimes. It gives me a lot of room to work with in my campaign, and really, the Deep Lacuna is huge, there is plenty of possibility/deniability there for me as a GM.
Also, Horizon is my favorite mega currently. Between this and the Horizon adventures coming out, I am loving it. SR needed its Google, and I like the one they made
Before I went to bed last night I was trying to find this, now I just wasted another hour (damn you distracting old forum discussions!) but finally, I found it - the summary thread of Die .6 Welt.
Read that, and tell me us English folk couldn't have used that instead of the 6WA.
Read that, and tell me us English folk couldn't have used that instead of the 6WA.
And the nice thing about it all is everyone gets a different amount of mileage from each book. It's all personal preference
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Dec 11 2011, 07:48 AM)
Before I went to bed last night I was trying to find this, now I just wasted another hour (damn you distracting old forum discussions!) but finally, I found it - the summary thread of Die .6 Welt.
Read that, and tell me us English folk couldn't have used that instead of the 6WA.
Read that, and tell me us English folk couldn't have used that instead of the 6WA.
To me Die 6. Welt looks more like a Book about the history of the Shadowrun RPG Franchise while The 6WA is more about the fluff of the Shadowrun setting. Apples and Oranges as far as I'm concerned.
Die.6 Welt doesn't seem that great to me-but I admit to not having read it, and not seeing much in the summary that really caught my eye as new and exciting. But I also don't read german particularly well. What sells you on this as a quality product Ravensmuse? I'm just looking for some reason to invest time into that thread, and potentially that product.
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Dec 11 2011, 05:27 AM)
In the same manner, I would also suggest Way of the Adept. Its rather awesome. If its included in black book, then it might be worth it.
1) Thanks! Glad you like it.
2) Sorry, but it's not. Runner's Black Book was a collection of Peter's gear e-books, exclusively. Since there's only one Way of ... published (so far), we haven't been able to bundle multiple of 'em together for a dead-tree print run.
Do you think they might eventually bundle the magical e-books (Digital Grimoire, Way of the Adept, etc.) into a dead tree book? Or is there not enough material yet?
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 11 2011, 05:12 PM)
Do you think they might eventually bundle the magical e-books (Digital Grimoire, Way of the Adept, etc.) into a dead tree book? Or is there not enough material yet?
You mean BOTH books? No, not enough yet.
No one's mentioned Corportate Guide yet? I just got into this book and I LOVE it.
Also I totally recommend Seattle 2072 if you are thinking about Running in Seattle AT ALL. If you're doing a Denver or Manhattan or some other location it might not be as useful, but it really is a great book.
I'll also put my 2 Nuyen in the pot in favor of 6th World Almanac. I don't think it's as good as Seattle 2072, but it's really good, and it covers a lot of areas besides Seattle, which is nice.
Stay away from Ghost Cartels. Running Wild can be fun if you want to run a campaign with a lot of critters, it's a lot of crunch.
Also I totally recommend Seattle 2072 if you are thinking about Running in Seattle AT ALL. If you're doing a Denver or Manhattan or some other location it might not be as useful, but it really is a great book.
I'll also put my 2 Nuyen in the pot in favor of 6th World Almanac. I don't think it's as good as Seattle 2072, but it's really good, and it covers a lot of areas besides Seattle, which is nice.
Stay away from Ghost Cartels. Running Wild can be fun if you want to run a campaign with a lot of critters, it's a lot of crunch.
QUOTE (Glyph @ Dec 11 2011, 05:12 PM)
Do you think they might eventually bundle the magical e-books (Digital Grimoire, Way of the Adept, etc.) into a dead tree book? Or is there not enough material yet?
As has come up elsewhere, we are working on at least one more Way of the ... book (that I know of) right now. I think the initial plan was to group a bunch of those "Way of The/Shadowrun Options" books together, if we're bundling anything (as opposed to having the idea be a specifically magical theme)...but I'll certainly mention to Jason that Digital Grimoire is another one folks are interested in. It's certainly not up to me what happens after such a suggestion gets made, but I can at least shoot him an email about it.
QUOTE (Paul @ Dec 11 2011, 01:45 PM)
Die.6 Welt doesn't seem that great to me-but I admit to not having read it, and not seeing much in the summary that really caught my eye as new and exciting. But I also don't read german particularly well. What sells you on this as a quality product Ravensmuse? I'm just looking for some reason to invest time into that thread, and potentially that product.
Beyond said thread being like, a page and a half long?
Okay, I'll answer by quoting from Mystic's thread -
[ Spoiler ]
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 11 2011, 03:50 AM)
And anyone like unfriendly skies etc?
These books are all profoundly disappointing for me. They're largely full of old vehicles, brought into SR4 not as current vehicles, but as old vehicles. So instead of 30 interesting new vehicles for your campaign, you get 25 recycled old vehicles that are half-crippled, and a handful of new whatevers. I know not everyone is into new vehicles as I am, but it seems like someone took an awful lot of time that could have been more profitably spent designing new vehicles, or translating old ones into current models of the same vehicles. Don't get me wrong, I think the setting could use some older equipment in it, but the ratio of new to old is completely disproportionate, in my opinion. If I had spent money on these PDFs before seeing them, I would have been furious.
QUOTE (3278 @ Dec 11 2011, 09:58 PM)
These books are all profoundly disappointing for me. They're largely full of old vehicles, brought into SR4 not as current vehicles, but as old vehicles. So instead of 30 interesting new vehicles for your campaign, you get 25 recycled old vehicles that are half-crippled, and a handful of new whatevers. I know not everyone is into new vehicles as I am, but it seems like someone took an awful lot of time that could have been more profitably spent designing new vehicles, or translating old ones into current models of the same vehicles. Don't get me wrong, I think the setting could use some older equipment in it, but the ratio of new to old is completely disproportionate, in my opinion. If I had spent money on these PDFs before seeing them, I would have been furious.
Unfortunately, this is one of those "Can;t please everyone all the time" situations.
If it had been 30 new vehicles, there's be someone saying "Why did they bother making new stuff when they haven't released/translated the earlier edition material yet?"
And this is the nice thing about the PDF previews on Drive Thru and the ability to get reviews on the forums. Lets you make an informed purchase.
Bull
Well, they're past most of the old stuff now, I think. New stuff should come eventually!
@Bull/ Critias... any chance they will make Rigger 3? I loved Rigger 2 to death with the incredible level of detail.
QUOTE (Bull @ Dec 12 2011, 03:05 AM)
Unfortunately, this is one of those "Can;t please everyone all the time" situations.
If it had been 30 new vehicles, there's be someone saying "Why did they bother making new stuff when they haven't released/translated the earlier edition material yet?"
If it had been 30 new vehicles, there's be someone saying "Why did they bother making new stuff when they haven't released/translated the earlier edition material yet?"
Then maybe 15 and 15 would have been a better proportion.
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 12 2011, 03:55 AM)
@Bull/ Critias... any chance they will make Rigger 3? I loved Rigger 2 to death with the incredible level of detail.
We did Rigger 3 already.
You'd be looking for Rigger 4. That would be a project that would interest me greatly.
Isn't there a curse on Rigger books?
QUOTE (CanRay @ Dec 12 2011, 12:05 AM)
Isn't there a curse on Rigger books?
They are, traditionally, the last release of any given edition, yeah. I don't know if that's a curse or not, but it's the way the product line seems to have played out the last couple of times.
And, to answer the actual question (for all my freelancer opinion is worth in such things)? I'm not sure how much a dedicated "Rigger __" book is needed, considering we already got Arsenal for upgrades and augmentations to gear, and then an assortment of vehicle/drone books, to boot. Really all that seems to be missing from the traditional, dedicated, rigger book, would be outright vehicle creation rules...and I'm not sure, personally, that's something that's seen as worth a whole production in and of itself. It's certainly not up to me how it goes down either way, but that's my own personal opinion on it, at least.
I'd be happy with a new vehicle/drone PDF. Doesn't even need super huge, or complicated to please me. Hell I'd be great with a book that presented no new rules.
And while I agree that you can only please some of the people some of the time, as a customer my feelings can be generally summarized as: books like Friendly Skies and Gun Heaven just make me sad-because they feel like no effort really went into them. They feel cut and paste, with barely even the effort to add updated "shadowtalk" at times. I know there are people who can do better than that. This is not to say the people who wrote them are bad people, or anything like that. Rather I just hope to see stuff that isn't recycled from the previous editions.
Back to books!
And while I agree that you can only please some of the people some of the time, as a customer my feelings can be generally summarized as: books like Friendly Skies and Gun Heaven just make me sad-because they feel like no effort really went into them. They feel cut and paste, with barely even the effort to add updated "shadowtalk" at times. I know there are people who can do better than that. This is not to say the people who wrote them are bad people, or anything like that. Rather I just hope to see stuff that isn't recycled from the previous editions.
Back to books!
QUOTE (Critias @ Dec 12 2011, 05:11 AM)
I'm not sure how much a dedicated "Rigger __" book is needed, considering we already got Arsenal for upgrades and augmentations to gear, and then an assortment of vehicle/drone books, to boot. Really all that seems to be missing from the traditional, dedicated, rigger book, would be outright vehicle creation rules...and I'm not sure, personally, that's something that's seen as worth a whole production in and of itself.
And even I agree with that. While I would hugely appreciate vehicle creation rules, and I'd like to see a book with new vehicles, and new gear and 'ware dedicated to the Rigger, I don't think there's demand enough for all this stuff to justify an entire book dedicated to it. That's supposed to be the role of the little PDFs, anyway, now - and SOTA books before them - but unfortunately there's a shortage of novel material going into those.
There are people who want these things. There are people who would skin a hobo alive under a bridge for working vehicle creation rules for SR4. But there aren't enough of those people to justify the expense and resources required to do it properly.
QUOTE (Paul @ Dec 12 2011, 07:20 AM)
I'd be happy with a new vehicle/drone PDF. Doesn't even need super huge, or complicated to please me. Hell I'd be great with a book that presented no new rules.
And while I agree that you can only please some of the people some of the time, as a customer my feelings can be generally summarized as: books like Friendly Skies and Gun Heaven just make me sad-because they feel like no effort really went into them. They feel cut and paste, with barely even the effort to add updated "shadowtalk" at times. I know there are people who can do better than that. This is not to say the people who wrote them are bad people, or anything like that. Rather I just hope to see stuff that isn't recycled from the previous editions.
Back to books!
And while I agree that you can only please some of the people some of the time, as a customer my feelings can be generally summarized as: books like Friendly Skies and Gun Heaven just make me sad-because they feel like no effort really went into them. They feel cut and paste, with barely even the effort to add updated "shadowtalk" at times. I know there are people who can do better than that. This is not to say the people who wrote them are bad people, or anything like that. Rather I just hope to see stuff that isn't recycled from the previous editions.
Back to books!
There's a Gun Haven 2 in the works, which is, I think, entirely new guns.
the other thing to keep in mind is that the early eBooks were a test market run. CGL had no idea how well they would sell, and art is hideously expensive. We wanted to do the PDF's in the old SSC "Catalog" format, since page count wasn't really an issue, but that meant we needed one piece of art for almost every item. Even at the reduced rates that the eBook line pays for art, it's still a LOT of expense.
So the early books "recycled" a lot of older material. Part of this was to make them easy to produce. Some new fluff and fiction, a couple updates, we clean up some older artwork, and then just have to do a bit of new. This is especially prevalent with "This Old Drone". However, sales have been strong for them, so as they've moved forward, tehy've gotten more of a budget to play with, which means more new arta dn more new material.
And really, I think only This Old Drone was really heavy on recylced material anyway. I seem to recall taht the Crunchy eBooks after that had a much higher proportion of new material. I'm nota gear guy, so I can't tell you off the top of my head what the breakdown is (Once you got beyond the standard car or motorcycle in my games, the vehicles just became set dressing and props and I rarely botehred paying attention to stats). I'll check with Peter (the eBook developer and author for most of those) and see if Ican get actual numbers for you.
Bull
QUOTE (3278 @ Dec 12 2011, 10:20 AM)
And even I agree with that. While I would hugely appreciate vehicle creation rules, and I'd like to see a book with new vehicles, and new gear and 'ware dedicated to the Rigger, I don't think there's demand enough for all this stuff to justify an entire book dedicated to it. That's supposed to be the role of the little PDFs, anyway, now - and SOTA books before them - but unfortunately there's a shortage of novel material going into those.
There are people who want these things. There are people who would skin a hobo alive under a bridge for working vehicle creation rules for SR4. But there aren't enough of those people to justify the expense and resources required to do it properly.
There are people who want these things. There are people who would skin a hobo alive under a bridge for working vehicle creation rules for SR4. But there aren't enough of those people to justify the expense and resources required to do it properly.
Pretty much this.
Also, as a note, one of the PDF line products is a new SOTA book. I'm not entirely sure what's going to be in it (nor am I sure if anything's been announced anyway, so I'll avoid spilling any beans on what little I do know), but it's basically kinda like the old SOTA 206X books in that it's a mish-mash of short articles.
Bull
yeah, id for out 10 bucks for basic vehicle creation rules, heck even just a 1 sheet pdf that explains how to convert rigger 3 vehicles would be great.
QUOTE (Bull @ Dec 12 2011, 06:00 PM)
And really, I think only This Old Drone was really heavy on recylced material anyway.
MilSpecTech and Unfriendly Skies both have a lot of recycled material, but that's not all bad! You want stats for older stuff. And MilSpecTech had a good proportion of old and new material, laid out in a way that made it mostly easy to see what was new and what was old. [These books all suffer a bit from a lack of unified vision and format, of course.] Unfriendly Skies had a lot of old material, and not a lot of new, and nothing particularly inventive. Gun Heaven was mostly "Incompatible" and "Vintage" weapons, some recycled from older books, but with a decent amount of new weapons as well. This Old Drone is like the worst of each, but it's kind of supposed to be: it's meant to bring these old drones into SR4, but in doing so, it cripples them, without giving us examples of what's replaced them. And of course, nothing inventive here at all.
There are reasons for all things. The sun doesn't rise arbitrarily in the sky, and these books didn't come to us in the form they did with out cause. Budgetary and time constraints, the learning curve of trying something really new, an uncertain demand, I'm sure all these things played a factor. Knowing the reasons is helpful, but the books are still a disappointment for me.
QUOTE (Bull @ Dec 12 2011, 06:00 PM)
I'm nota gear guy...
Well, that's exactly the thing: I don't think you're alone, or even necessarily in the minority, in that. I think if you took a poll on Dumpshock, you'd find a lot more people who have written a computer program than have done an engine swap; I think you'd find a lot more people who have played a computer game than raced a car. Vehicle creation threads are very quiet. There's nothing wrong with that, and there's nothing wrong with making business decisions based on that demographic. I am the last guy to give advice on what would be popular or sell well in Shadowrun! All I can do is voice my own opinions, and if other people share them, hope those people will speak up: maybe there's a secret demographic of gearheads out there just waiting to buy up Rigger 4. You just never know.
QUOTE (Bull @ Dec 12 2011, 02:00 PM)
There's a Gun Haven 2 in the works, which is, I think, entirely new guns.
Bull
Does the artwork for the new firearms look like they should be in the Star Wars RPG again?
Bull
And that's got to be the bitch about this sort of thing. Too old and we, the fans, bitch about it. Too futuristic, and we botch. Finding that razors edge is hard.
QUOTE (CanRay @ Dec 12 2011, 02:36 PM)
Does the artwork for the new firearms look like they should be in the Star Wars RPG again?
Hrmm. I'm not the one to ask. I like the guns taht look unusual myself. becauseI know from hanging out with Caine Hazen and his airsoft fetish that all guns look pretty much the same to me. I know an AK-47 and an M-16 because I've seen them a zillion times in movies over the years. I know the P-90 from Stargate. Otherwise? Every damn assault rifle looks identical to me. Likewise, all Pistols look alike, unless they're a snub nose .38 Special of a long barrel .44 magnum.
I will say I like the art, and a LOT of attention is being paid to the artwork this time around. Whether anyone else will like it, especially gun guys? No clue.
Anyway, just for the record, I asked Peter and this is what I got back about the eBooks and their ratios:
QUOTE
This Old Drone: 18 recycled from previous editions and 12 new to SR (but from or based on RL)
Gun Haven: 2 recycled (the predators), 30 new to SR(this is from memory, I might be off by one or two but I doubt it)
MilSpec: 13 old versus 11 new, I might be off on a couple of these, and I didn't count the missiles which are also a mix of old and new to SR. My notes slated 14 new vehicles but some were pulled for SOTA along with a couple of the old
Deadly Waves: 15 old, 16 new including torpedoes and drones.
Unfriendly Skies: 24 old and 10 new
Gun Haven: 2 recycled (the predators), 30 new to SR(this is from memory, I might be off by one or two but I doubt it)
MilSpec: 13 old versus 11 new, I might be off on a couple of these, and I didn't count the missiles which are also a mix of old and new to SR. My notes slated 14 new vehicles but some were pulled for SOTA along with a couple of the old
Deadly Waves: 15 old, 16 new including torpedoes and drones.
Unfriendly Skies: 24 old and 10 new
So looks like a pretty good mix, overall. I actually thought there were more older vehicles in them, actually.
(Though yeah, having the Vintage/Obsolete stuff can make it odd too. But I like having that modifier, and I'd love to see more Vehicle Qualities like that down the road. )
Bull
No offense to anyone involved, but a pretty close to half recycled ratio isn't what i want to see in future supplements. But luckily I do agree that PDF's are the place for them. I mean why not-PDF's are way cheaper to put out, and way easier to put multiple editions out with.
Luckily I'm a paying sucker, with a paying job.
Luckily I'm a paying sucker, with a paying job.
QUOTE (onlyghostdanceswhiledrunk @ Dec 12 2011, 10:33 AM)
yeah, id for out 10 bucks for basic vehicle creation rules, heck even just a 1 sheet pdf that explains how to convert rigger 3 vehicles would be great.
All I really want is a .PDF that adds some form of carrying capacity just so I know how many trolls we can fit into The Van in addition to the drones.
QUOTE (ggodo @ Dec 12 2011, 07:07 PM)
All I really want is a .PDF that adds some form of carrying capacity just so I know how many trolls we can fit into The Van in addition to the drones.
Nine and a Dwarf with a High-Def Trid Camera. No clothing.
QUOTE (CanRay @ Dec 12 2011, 03:43 PM)
Nine and a Dwarf with a High-Def Trid Camera. No clothing.
I think I saw that one. I still want to know how many drones could fit there too.
QUOTE (Bull @ Dec 12 2011, 09:17 PM)
So looks like a pretty good mix, overall.
50/50 isn't what I would personally consider a pretty good mix, is my point, particularly considering the ratio on a couple of those books is more like 90/10, and that a lot of the "new" items are Obsolete or Incompatible, etc.
It's cool that those ratios work for you, self-admitted "nota gear guy" and guy for whom "all guns look pretty much the same."
Those ratios probably work for most people. They don't work for me, is all. If I'd dropped money on a book that turned out to be 24 old planes and 10 new ones, I'd have been disappointed, especially if there was nothing particularly new about them.Do you know what I hadn't ever thought of, when Shadowtech was printed? A Suprathyroid. It just hadn't occurred to me to vat-grow improved parts in a lab and then implant them in people. I happily paid money for those ideas I hadn't had, because they had worth and value. Converting SR3 vehicles to SR4 vehicles is something I could do myself, so paying someone else to do it is a drag. What I think Shadowrun needs more of is new, exciting, different ideas, equivalent to Drones or Bioware or Metamagic. That's something I can't do, and that's something I value.
But now I'm way off-topic. Sorry.
So, who wants to bring Findley back from the dead? Any takers?
I like the recycled stuff most of my characters have at least a couple of pieces of older gear for a variety of reasons. As for the rest of it Crafting in general as opposed to vehicle design specifically would be good also more/longer pregen runs. The missions are ok but as they are for conventions they are a little short for home play.
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Dec 10 2011, 10:09 PM)
Which doesn't touch on the cover, which a) looked like it was traced from a picture of Angelina Jolie and b) crystalized everything a book on culture in Shadowrun shouldn't be.
I actually bought a print of that cover off Echo Chernik at the Calgary Comic Expo this year. Apparently when the job was comissioned, it was supposed to be used as the cover of Arsenal. She wasn't sure why it wasn't used for that and instead got used on Attitude.
And for the record, as an older player returning to the fld I like seeing all the old tech. And when I bought the PDF's, I knew there was old stuff. I wasn't aware it was a surprise to some.
QUOTE (ravensmuse @ Dec 11 2011, 01:09 AM)
a) looked like it was traced from a picture of Angelina Jolie and b) crystalized everything a book on culture in Shadowrun shouldn't be.
Which they actually stated in the book as being exactly the problem with the concept of Shadowrunners in Media.
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