I haven't found this anywhere in the rulebooks, but there doesn't seem to be a limit to how many spells an initiate can quicken on himself. Theoretically an initiate can quicken 20 spells on his body.

Of course this would take a ton of karma, and the spells could be vulnarable to being dispelled. On the other hand if an opponent saw that there were 20 quickened spells on a character would the opponent even bother to try to dispel any of those away? Wouldn't the opponent have to take time to identify the spells if he wanted to make sure he didn't waste time dispelling a simple Healthy Glow spell?

Does anyone house rule that quickened spells are treated as sustained spells as far as the maximum number of sustained spells a character may have? Or would this be gimping mages too much?

You can Quicken nearly any number of spells. Said spells can be dispelled, attacked in astral combat, drained by Strain III, what-have-you. You invest bunches of Karma to beef up your combat mage into a combat monster, that's cool.

And eventually, when he runs into something that spent its karma on sorcery instead, and it dispels those spells, or runs into a cybermantic monstrosity that is a Hell of a lots bigger than him; or a Dragon which is both, that's cool too.

indeed. your supah-mage is going to be sacrificing a lot, for his l33t quickened spells.

Well let's see what we can find to do about that shall we?

1st, take a look at each spell and it's effect, walking around with an armor spell quickened for instance, means you're surrounded in a glowing field 24/7. Walking around with reflex boosters quickened will attract as much attention as a Samurai without a step trigger on his wired reflexes.

More importantly, from astral space, this guy is a shining beacon of spells. Sooner or later, a mage cop is going to see that and then there's be some interesting questions regarding permits. Likewise, sneaking into anything with astral defenses will be next to impossible.

This is all just off the top of my head, but trust me, walking around with 20 spells quickened is NOT a good idea.

Sunday.

To the original post, there is no game rule preventing it.

However, as the other posters have mentioned, there are many logical reasons why such a character (runner) wouldnt make it long in the shadows. Its easy to foget the side effects of some actions on the runners ability to actually maintain his ability to do what he does ... remain in the cracks of the system.

@deagol3: As the reigning King of Quickened spells, my character has a few answers to your questions. First, yes, you'd have to assense the person, then assense each spell (all taking Simple Actions) to find out which spell to dispel in order to avoid trying to dispel the wrong spell.

Apparently our GM has House Ruled that having Quickened Spells raises the Background Count over time. My current residence seems to have a Background Count of 3, and most places my character is in for an hour or more gets a Background Count of 1. This is ok by me since I really don't cast too many spells. I started Quickening because the negatives I get by my Raven totem when inside, and we were always doing runs inside, so it was just better to cast before and try to stick to my guns while within. But still, kinda annoying that I have to leave home (and my Lodge) to cast a spell on me or someone, however, also kinda cool and I'm in no mood to learn Cleansing.

@Sunday Gamer: You are wrong about being a Beacon. This has been gone over time and time again, the rules about being a Beacon are a left over reminence of 2nd and earlier editions. In 3rd Edition you will find only 1 place that even remotely suggests that you are a Beacon, and that's the Astral Patrolling chart in MitS (pg 82), however you'll notice that there's not a "search time", indicating that as soon as you enter the area patrolled, on a successful roll, they are aware of you, wether they see you or not. You'll also notice on that same exact chart you will see that this patrol includes "complex terrain, building interiors", areas that you can't astrally perceive in without some time to travel. This indicates it's much more like a "hairs on the back of your neck" type of notice and not a visible beacon. All the other mentions throughout the books actually indicate a non-beacon theory, such as the rules for Astrally Assensing where you need at LEAST 3 successes to even know of something has a Force more or less than your own.

Easy to get Permits for the spells (after all, what sustained spell is damaging except Flame Aura which nobody would quicken). Astral Defenses is definitely a problem if you want to sneak past, but that type of character wouldn't go the Quicken route. Besides, once the defense is down, it still takes time to get the astral body there and back to locate where the breach happened (and even then, an opposed Stealth roll will keep you hidden from the Projectionist) and then to contact the people on-hand to warn them, hit the panic button, and then the defenders to get there. Etc, Etc. So yeah, it can be a pain, but doesn't have to be.

@Others: Anyone interested in Quickening rightly goes for Force 6 spells only for double the Karma cost to give it a Force of 12 to dispel. Now, in my history of Running, I've only maybe once come across someone with a Magic rating of 12+. Anyone else trying to dispel a "Force 12 for dispelling purposes" is going to take Physical drain, and I don't think people are going to be rushing to do that. Raise that Sorcery all you like, TN is still 12 to dispel, and you better have a Magic rating of 12+ to stay alive. It's only a sacrifice to Quicken spells like this if you do it at a Force any less than I've mentioned.

Sphynx

It is a common tactic for my NPC mages to use the Astral Barrier spell to encase foes that are too obviously magical. This includes dual-natured creatures, people with tons of foci, and your theoretical Kentucky Fried Quicken.

Generally I have them throw out a force 4-6, and successes often bring that to a force 8 or better barrier. That can get lucky and reduce successes on even very high force quickenings, and the little ones pop like firecrackers.

The "beacon" bit may be technically incorrect, but anyone with that many Quickened spells is definitely going to be bloody obvious on the Astral.

Zazen: Astral Barrier has a TN 6, you'll be lucky to raise it by 1 w/ successes and even then, I walk right through it with a no-drain Shattershield while you take drain cause you pumped your spell pool into getting successes. *yawn*

Zazen: Anything above Force 2 is definitely illegal, that's why you get a permit. It's not illegal if you have a permit for it. Why the hell else would you get a permit for, and permits are cheap for spells.

Cain: uhm.... please show me the canon ruling saying how obvious I'd be? You may know I'm around via patrolling, you may see that there are spells there (if you beat my stealth roll), maybe even how many (if you beat my stealth roll), but show me something that says or suggests the number and force have anything to do with being "bloody obvious". Preferably something from 3rd Edition please.

Sphynx

Quickening a lot of spells has both advantages and disadvantages. On the plus side, you have the spell permanently "on", without any sustaining modifiers, without any foci which are subject to astral attack, and without having to worry about your concentration being disrupted by an attack.

On the negative side, you are subject to Strain III (you definitely want to learn the Sterilize spell, which kills it), you are easier to detect by astral patrols, and, most importantly, if you quicken more spells than you can mask, you will never be able to stealth past a ward. Sure, you can take the ward down, but that alerts the mage who cast it. And if you have to go through a powerful ward in a hurry, you can lose one or more of your spells. Ditto for dispelling. This stinks, because the Karma you spent making that spell permanent is gone, wasted.

As far as how many... there is kind of a practical limit, in that there are only so many spells that a mage would want permanently sustained. I mean, you don't want to walk around with armor glowing all the time, much less fire aura. I can see using it for increase reflexes +3, astral armor, and a number of others, but some - such as improved invisibility and armor - are better suited to sustaining foci, which unlike quickened spells can be turned off, then back on.

Eh, most of the comments here are mostly valid. Just to play devils advocate a bit, permits have to be tied to a SIN, which then has to be tied to you. Thats a tool for the NPCs to abuse you with in some circumstances, and blowing your cover can mean compromising the SIN. Plus, its a way to track you electronically.

As for the obviousness, it does appear in some areas of 3rd ed, such as the tn mods for the spirits of Rhonabwy in SotF to find you (iirc, its one of the runs where active magic makes you more obvious). So there is, at some level, the idea that magical activity makes you more obvious on the astral plane. How big that is and how much the users steath affect it is kinda a grey GM call zone atm.

I dont think spell/battle tactics really matter, I mean you can go back and forth with "oh if you do that Ill do this" comments; they prove nothing. Everything has a counter /shrug.

What it boils down to is that there are advantages for, and disadvantages against, quickening. Some players and GMs will use or not use these to different levels, which makes it more or less useful to them. Bottom line: theres no limit other than what you can logically do without compromising yourself in your gaming group. Youll have to find where that line is on your own, I can tell you about my group all day but youre not in it =)