Hello everyone,

our group recently decided to play Shadowrun again, and everyone decided for his/her role and so i just researched the role that was left for me at that point.

Today our to-be hacker player decided that she wanted to play a shaman instead and so the hacker part is open now and i want to give it a shot.
I only got today for reading up on all the needed Matrix rules spread out over all the books, since we will be playing tomorrow.
And since after a lot of reading i realised that there was a lot to do wrong i need some advice.

I thought about going a Technomancer+Face-Elf route because out team has a constant lack of social skills. With heavy emphasis on TM and getting the cheapest face options possible.
I can freely chose between Karma Build and BP System. (Using German Raw)

I want to be able to get into systems and idealy survive if i get found.

What Qualities should i look up?
Is there cyberware that is worth losing one Resonance? (Or that costs just 0.4 essence so i can fit in tailored pheromones to fill the gaps i will have in social skills)
What Stream+Paragon Combo would be good?
Should i invest into Immersions from start? There seem to be some freaking good Echos out there..Which would be the best for starting?

Any more advice or common traps i could fall for?
And concerning that common traps/mistakes that a GM might make that make a TM worse?

And something nearly completly different: Anyone tried an Adept Hacker and had fun with it? What would be cool Powers for that kind of character?

Thanks in advance .. i hope someone reads that topic before tomorrow.

Check the link in my sig and look at the Technoshaman for a technomancer with secondary face skills.

The big thing not used there is Empathy Software, because it's commonly banned. You could drop Disarm for Empathy Software if it is allowed.

I'm not sure how well technomancers work out using karmagen; you might want to make one and compare.

Qualities: You should have Paragon and Technomancer. Optional: Analytic Mind (better Software = better Threading). SURGE helps you like it helps everyone else.

Cyberware: Not on a Charisma stream technomancer.

Stream: Technoshaman.

Investing in immersions at chargen: If you do karmagen, yeah, probably. Good echoes include:

Biowire, Sprite link (code), Sprite link (tutor), Widget Crafting (but make sure that using the Cheat widget won't run into a dicepool cap, if your group is using those rules), possibly Swap 2 but there's at least 3 different ways to interpret it, so ask your GM what it does*, Overclocking/Advanced Overclocking, Mind over Machine.

If you plan to use BP-gen, I would basically just say "look at the Technoshaman archetype." Common mistakes include not having 6 resonance, having a lot of crappy complex forms instead of a few good ones, having complex forms that you can just get Sprites to do or just thread to be "good enough," having Decompiling, picking a dumb stream, having really high mental stats that you don't need.

The most common problem I see is people trying to make a Technomancer that's like a mundane hacker or vice versa. Technomancers give up the ability to handle real-world combat and stuff for the ability to win like whoa on the matrix (including being good at rigging as a side effect). Mundane hackers get to be pretty good at the matrix and still be able to handle real-world stuff well in one or two other areas**. I often see Technomancers that are bad at RL combat, bad at one or two other things, and bad at hacking instead of being awful at RL combat and awesome at hacking and rigging. Occasionally you also see hackers that want to be technomancers and are awful at RL things and only pretty good at hacking.

The matrix rules are like the Mirror of Galadriel - no two people who look into it see exactly the same thing, unless you are Frodo in which case you see Rob Boyle's blazing eye staring out at you. Technomancers are fine in most versions of the matrix, the only one that makes them super bad is most variations of the "stat+skill with program rating as a cap" houserule.

Adept hackers are totally playable - so long as you're sure that you're making an adept hacker and not trying to be a technomancer. You should do this if you want to only do two things (hacking + one other thing) and be good at both, but NOT if you want to be the bestest at hacking and forget everything else. Also, you should be getting 1-2 points of ware like all other adepts should.

*Swap 2 can be read as:

1: you ignore the first -2 penalty from sustainining complex forms (ie, 1 CF = -0, 2 = -2, 3 = -4)
2: you ignore the -2 penalty from each complex form (ie, any amount = -0)

and

a: you ignore this penalty on threading actions only
b: you ignore this penalty on all actions

1a and 1b are utterly worthless echoes that don't do anything useful. 1b is a bad echo, although not outright worthless. 2b is a pretty decent echo, although more for reducing bookkeeping by letting you prethread once and then sleep/get healed, rather than having to do it on the fly constantly.

**take a look at the Generalist archetype from my sig for an example of a mundane hacker/face/street samurai, or the Combat Hacker for a hacker/street samurai.

First: Thanks a lot! Thats some great advice and helps me greatly.

Question:


Is that because the only viable cyberware would boost Logic to resist Fading?

Is it true, that Threading doesn't take up any time?
Up to now we handled it as a complex action which massively limits it's usefulnes because you need to be prepared if you want to do something.

Threading is a Free Action... Not a Non-Action.

It's more because Resonance is really important to Technomancers, even more than Magic for mages, and thus you only want to give any up if you're getting something really awesome for it. Logic stream technomancers can get really awesome things, other technomancers can't get anything as awesome.

Threading used to be an action that takes no time, but it's been recently errata'd to a free action.

Elf with soft-maxed CHA and Influence Group at 2+ can be a pretty good face for only 60BP.

I would be tempted to leave Tailored Pheremones and other cyber/bioware until later if you go Technomancer or Adept Hacker route to keep your Resonance/Magic as high as possible. You are going to need to invest pretty heavily cash-wise in your commlink and programmes anyway, and might be better spending any leftover cash on a drone or two to help with recon/combat.

Adept hacker/face could be interesting as the Kinesics adept power can help your facing now or later.

My recommendation for a TM/Face is an elf Technoshaman with the Paragon 'Flow' (+2 Threading, +1 Data sprites, -1 Cybercombat Attack tests). Use Karmagen, it is so much easier to build a TM with Karma as opposed to BP. Hard max your Resonance (60 Karma, the last point isn't extra like in BP gen, IIRC) and a Charisma of 6 or 7 gives you a good Fading resistance, as well as lots of room to play with sprites, which Technoshamans have one of the best selection of, IMO. Hacking 5, Electronic Warfare 4, Cybercombat 3, Electronics Group 4, Registering 5, Compiling 4 for hacking skills, and Influence Group 2 or 3, and then a smattering of other skills. (This is the build I used for my PC in my home game, I did Pistols (SA) 2, Athletics Group 3, Perception 2, Pilot (Bikes) 2, Blades (Knives) 2, Influence 2, Stealth Group 2 for a pretty balanced skill set.) You can keep your CF list smaller with the bonus to Threading and the good Fading resistance (Analyze, Exploit, Stealth, Shield, Sniffer, Browse, Spoof, and Edit were my CFs, with a few of them on the low end.)

If your GM allows Submersion during creation, I definitely recommend Widget Crafting for your first echo, as that uses a extended Threading Test, and the rating on them is NOT restricted by your Submersion grade, so you can create fairly powerful and useful Widgets right away. That and Swap to reduce the penalty for sustaining threaded forms.

The German errata, which their group is using, fixed the underpricing of stats - Resonance 6 is 100 karma, not 60. Unerratad karmagen is just strictly better than BP-gen for everyone.

Adept hacking: Yes. Improved Technical Skill: Hacking/Electronicwarfare/Computer. Multitasking. Improved reflexes. Heightened Concentration. I have a post about it here, that may be highly informative. More of a skeleton build, but it does a good job of hightlighting what's possible. be sure to check the posts below it for clarifications on how itall works.

As for Echoes:
Macro is incredibly underrated. It lets you offhand two matrix actions at once, and, if you have decent dice pools, it is so much more efficient than getting extra passes
Multiprocessing is amazing: Perception/Matrix perception as a free action is a huge boost, especially if you plan on rigging at all. Its also opens up Mesh Reality, which CAN make you capable of fighting in the real world rather well, but you need a second source of physical initiative passes for it(drugs are one)
If you have access to Tutor sprites, Biowires become a much better deal.
E-sensing is fantastic.
Immersion seems like a trap, but its fantastic when you realize that it stacks with control rigs, and also helps ANY action you make, not just Vehicle tests.
Skinlink/Resonance trodes opens up at-a-touch brainwashing, which you may be interested in as a face. This involves connecting to someone via resonance trodes, and threading up a psychotropic option(unwired 115) for your Black Out. Being able to punch people' short-term memories out of their head is a great way of staying off the radar.


Things to ask your GM, from the FAQ:
Q: Can technomancers thread or learn Complex Forms of the Sensor software (p.60, Arsenal) or TacSofts (p.125, Unwired)?
A:Yes, if the gamemaster allows it. In practice, these specialized software sometimes require additional sensors and databases to be used, but for most of the Sensor software at least the cybereyes and cyberears may be used as general substitutes for cameras and microphones.

Clarify this. If he says yes, get the Empathy sensor soft as a Complex Form. Ditto for Tacnets - its a huge teamboost if you have one. Don't worry about having enough Subscriptions on your biological node(check unwired 55, subscriptions): You can use your extra Processor Limit to run more subscriptions at no downside, because complex forms don't take any processor limit at all. Learning the Focus reality amplifier is rather fantastic as well.

Also clarify whether you would be allowed a Submersion or two at character creation.
If yes, absolutely 100% get a point of cyberware at creation if you are allowed karmagen. You want echoes and you want ware, the two go hand in hand. 1 submersion + 1 point of ware + resonance 6 isn't that much more expensive than just resonance 6.
I can recommend PuSHeD(geneware, augmentation) to help with your hacking things. A simsense booster will give you 4 passes without the need of an expensive submersion.(no, really, check the faq. It can get you to 4, but not 5. If you plan on getting it removed later, its not a bad idea) Control rigs are never bad. Reception Enhancers(bioware, augmentation) are amazing, because they help matrix perception. Cybereyes are never bad. Biosculpting can give you extra bonus social dice (see sidebar, biosculpting social effects, augmentation 61) and is fairly cheap on the essence. Trauma Dampers are amazing, because it gives you -1 stun damage, and really helps someone who wants to casually thread all the time.
Worth noting, though probably not allowed by your gm: Tailored Pheromones helps with charisma stream Fading. It helps with charisma tests, but the restrictive text is only for magical abilities, which technomancers are not. Pain editors can be worth it, because they prevent you from being auto-logged out when you take a bunch of stun damage, and make it so you don't suffer stun damage track penalties.


As for Qualities:
Analytical Mind is fantastic. Codeslinger -can- situationally be worth 10 points, if you do it on some actions like Compile Sprite or Threading.
Surge is always nice. Consider Metagenetic Improvement: Charisma (on an elf, a 20 karma value, and you can pick it up with surge 2 for 10bp which is 20 karma. Its a net break-even). Glamour is an excellent source of extra dice, but whether it applies online is a point of contention among these boards, and something to clarify with your GM.
Perceptive CAN raise your matrix perception, but usually isn't worth the points.
Paragons are excellent. Depends what you are shooting for. Flow's bonus to Threading is always nice(and don't forget to specialize Software for Threading), though Idoru does help with Con, and that is important for a face. Pulse is a trap, because it doesn't raise your basic initiative score at all, only bonus dice on the initiative test.
First Impression. The standard face quality. Worth it. Doubly worth it if you can 're-use it' if you're in a big enough disguise.
The Chatty quality(unwired) can be worth it, if you do a lot of online interactions. It may have got an errata nerf, however, i don't recall.

Regardless of what else you take, you should make a -special- effort to get the points to do the following. Unlike magicians, technomancers can start the game with both submersion discounts, because joining a technomancer network takes no karma. First submersion for 8 karma? Yes please. Here is what you do.
1) Take a technomancer network as a Contact. Make sure to have a decent loyalty, so they don't turn on you later. Flesh them out a bit, give your GM some details to work with.
2) Take a Free Sprite as a contact. Free sprites are interesting: They need technomancers to grow as entities, and technomancers want them to help give them better insight into the resonance. Basically, they need each other. The relationship is pretty simple: The technomancer feeds the free sprite registered sprites, and the free sprite helps the technomancer out with a Recompiling ordeal. Make sure to get a decent Loyalty, because, well, this is one benefit you want to keep. Also consider getting a Resonance Bond with said sprite. Some powers are WORTH it. Even grabbing Stability lets you rush job basically any extended test on the matrix without fear of failure, which is a huge deal when breaking encryption or probing nodes. If you start off with a rating 1 sprite, its even cheap.
Having both of these things nets you 60% off(round up) future submersions.

Also worth noting: As a technoshaman, you have access to Data sprites, which have Any Linguasoft as an option. This means that you come with a built-in translator.
You have access to Machine sprites, which are always solid. It may be worth long-term linking(unwired 154) one just to have guaranteed Stability all the time. Its cheap, too: 1 karma per rating.

Paladin and sleuth sprites are both new sprites from unwired. Sleuth sprites are interesting because they have a capability nobody else does: they can find out where anyone on the matrix(literally, which node, instead of relying upon bad Trace rules) is in about an hour. Which can be amazing for finding people.

Having access to every language in the world is a very, very powerful tool!

Most of Udoshi's advice is reasonable (or labeled as "your GM might well not allow this but..."), I do have nits to pick with these 3.

The reason most people aren't big on Macro is because of the "noncombat" restriction. It does have some uses, but if you're not in combat, you often don't care about the extra actions. Yes, there are some times when you need to hurry (such as when you are using the Mute program option for a smash-and-grab), but I'd rather have Overclocking for extra IPs all the time, rather than Macro for extra IPs that don't work at the time when I most need more IPs.

Many GMs will not allow you to Biowires from Tutor sprites. Check with your GM on that. If your GM does allow that, then your first two echoes should be Sprite Link (Tutor) and Biowires, because it is super duper broken and will let you get huge skills at everything for very little cost.

You cannot take Codeslinger: Threading because Threading is not on the list of Matrix actions. You can take Codeslinger: Compile Sprite, but I don't recommend it, because the limitation on compiling big sprites is more the highly random Fade than beating them at the opposed test. Codeslinger: Control Device is big time win if you care about rigging, though. Codeslinger: Hacking on the Fly is debatable.

Lastly, a note about rigging. You can go for the jumped-in rigger route and I know Udoshi is a big fan of it; I'm not, and would suggest going the VR Command rigging route. The main advantage is that it is cheap and very low-risk, and you can get quite large dicepools by using Threading and Assist Operation on your Command CF. It also works fine with crappy off-the-rack drones that have a FA gun bolted on. It's a good option if you mainly want to hack and face and want to rig as a side thing, because it takes up few of your resources and you can be quite effective with a less-than-5000Y drone, Command 6, and nothing else that you wouldn't want anyways.

Command also has the benefit of Control Device on a medkit for ridiculously huge First Aid.

Two things i want to respond to.

Normally, Macro's non-combat restriction applies. Normally. There is a specific exception for it being used in combat within the rules.
The downside is that you need Mesh reality for it, which means you need Multiprocessing. None of these things help your physical passes(which you normally want with mesh reality), or your matrix initiative(which you also want with mesh reality). Its usually not worth it, because it takes up three whole submersions for a gimmick trick. You would need another TWO before you even got access to Acceleration, and then you could only submerge once more before you HAVE to raise your Resonance if you want any other Echoes(or your gm is using an optional rule, but that isn't guaranteed).
However, Macro by itself is rather excellent anyway, because it lets you do noncombat tasks(like issuing commands, or network scanning, or using sensors) while IN combat. Unlike Multiprocessing, who's extra free actions go away in combat situations, Macro's extra action can be used in combat, but has to be a non combat task. Its an important distinction, and there are plenty of things you can do with it that aren't directly shooting people. Summoning sprites comes to mind.
Basically, the reason I like it so much, is that its an inexpensive way of getting more mileage out of your passes, and if you are a generalist, its very solid.

Per the Anniversary Errata, Threading is now a Free Action.(you may have noticed people going around and saying that recently. Yes, its a thing) Just because it is not on the list of actions in the core book doesn't mean you can't codeslinger it. Also, there are plenty of Actions from supplement books, such as unwired, that DO work with codeslinger. Just a reminder, the big list of actions in the core book is vastly out of date.

I am usually a fan of rigging, but in this case, Command basically costs you nothing to use, and its hella good for when you need it. A threaded command is well worth the investment. Being a technomancer and a face is going to eat up enough of your points that you don't want to be branching into a third role very hard.

I agree with Umaro as far as how to build a TM wrong. I took Codeslinger: Hacking on the Fly and regret it (too easy to cap out my pool).

The big list of actions is the list of “Matrix Actions” for the purpose of Hotsim and Code Slinger (i.e. actions that refer to the term “Matrix Actions”) NOT the full list of actions that can be preformed on the matrix (i.e. matrix actions).

Threading and Registering Sprites are two examples of matrix actions that are not Matrix Actions. Unwired Page 112 specifically states “New Matrix Actions”” which mean that Corrupt Data, Disarm Program, and Disinfect are all Matrix Actions but hiding a backdoor is not. If the SR4A Errata had wanted Threading to be a Matrix Action, it would have said so.

Edit: removed MoM mention because it was already mentioned

I did actually mention Mind over Machine.

Man, that thing about Actions you take on the matrix not being Matrix Actions is complete bullshit.

If it takes an Action(complex, whatever,) on the matrix, then its a Matrix Action. Here.


Oh my. EVERYTHING you do while jumped-in rigging is a Matrix Action? And they are Matrix Actions NOT on the Big List?(outdated and incomplete list, btw) OH NO. That sure shoots holes in your arguement, doesn't it?

No need to strike that tone there Udoshi. You're more than welcome to disagree.

That said, bringing up rules on completely unrelated things (rigging != threading) doesn't prove anything.
And there's plenty to be said for Threading not being a Matrix Action, since it's the TM boosting his own ability to do things, not adapting the Matrix in any way.

I don’t consider stating the facts to be an argument. I just stated what the book said. I’ve done it again with bolding. I personally think it is just a flaw from poor editing and patchwork writing but since I play SRM, I care about what RAW says and try to follow it to the letter.

You will also note that your quoted rule is contradicted by the one I quoted, which explicitly makes rigging actions Matrix Actions - and those are not on the list.

Which takes precedence?

RAW, neither takes precedence because both are RAW and SRM doesn’t have a meta-rule like D&D where the most specific rule applies when two rules contradict. This is a problem when the Matrix rules suffer from poor editing and patchwork writing.

The way I play, is that all things on that list are Matrix Actions and all things done while Jumped-in are Matrix Actions. Thus both can be correct, except the list of Matrix Actions is no longer exclusive. This makes sense to me, as they update the list of Matrix Actions in Unwired also adds to that list. With that interpretation you could get +2 to registering while Jumped-in which I have no problem with. To go back to the original question, does that mean that a character can take Code-Slinger for any action because while the character is Jumped-in it is a Matrix Action?

You mean like "Codeslinger: Use Sensors/Fire Vehicle Weapon/Make Vehicle Test/Ram"
(Vehicle Actions, SR4a @ p.169)