Hi. I GM on an SR3 based MUD (Seattle 2064.net port 4000). It's RP Encouraged which means you don't run around shooting wageslaves in the face. My problem and question is there a way to balance runs vs. the players. The average PC on the mud can farm Karma from auto-runs and advance pretty quickly. I use pretty much canon SR3 bad guys and find the PCs walk right through them. Average PC is in the 100 Karma range. Any ideas on how I can beef up my bad guys without getting insane? (The scale is badly off considering most TT groups don't get 100 Karma in a year and within about two weeks of steady playing, a PC on the MUD can go from newb to 100).
I've been doing things like coming up with runs that don't involve straight up combat, using the LoneStar response time table, etc, etc.
Thanks in advance.

Can you prevent auto-runs? Or put another way, what are auto-runs?

Can the opposition change, depending on the composition of the PC group? In other words, if you have a runner with 100+ karma, can he get different opposition than a 50+ karma character?

Are there types of challenges you can present in which the power level of the characters doesn't matter?

Use da Splosives!
And moar Dakka!

srsly.

And Drugs. Cheap ones to make gangers a bit stronger while staying in flavour of the world, special units get highly efficient military combat drugs . .
And applied chem-tech is a big equalizer, seeing how armor and most things that give body don't do shit against chemical stuff.
Also, strength in numbers. If you let them, as a group of probably 4 or 5, only go up against groups of 10 to 15, then yes, the odds are good for them.
If they can PLAN it to have it happen like that, they SHOULD walk all over them. But if they start a fight with some gangers, anywhere near their home turf, have at least one break off and run for help.
And then wait a moment and have 20 of them come around the corner of the next block. Now the characters have the choice to run facing overwhelming odds or escalating violence untill lone star and knight errant and the plex guard want to play.

Also, if you want to be a bit mean:
Anything the characters do is fair game for the NPC's too.
If they use their low TN's to do headshots all the time, have the NPC's start doing aimed shots for damage or effect too.
Somebody using a cheap but effective weapon? If it's cheap and effective, why should he be the only one to have figured it out?
PEOPLE are DUMB. But PERSONS are street smart enough to cheat with the odds of their own survival.

QFT

Also have NPC's dive for cover when the shooting starts (or when people walk about with firearms openly). This increases tn's, limiting hits (and increasing combat duration).

Also consider reducing the number of karma for just killing people (and maybe tie it instead to completing missions ... with many of the missions set so they can only be completed once).

To answer the above questions, the way it works if there isn't a player GM available, is your MUD character wanders around text Seattle checking out various bars and businesses for Johnsons. You ask them for a job, they give you one if your rep (Earned Karma) is high enough. Most of the auto runs are deliver the goodie or go beatup/kill this guy who did something to me, there are a few Matrix runs built into the MUD. Once you are done, you go back and tell the J you are complete, they give you nuyen and some Karma.
The problem is we have a small pbase right now so there are only two player GMs (me and one other guy), so without us being online due to RL jobs and such, people log on and autorun for a few hours. Then they go find trainers to spend that Karma on or places to buy really wiz gear (which is kind of what we do in TT).
There's no real way to stop an autorun, because the way they are coded, you can get the same run over and over if your Reputation is high enough.

Now, the difference when I do a player run is that we sit around in a virtual room with MUD characters and we use the emote command to say what the PCs are doing. I will give them the scenario, TNs, and results just like TT.

I do like the advice because there are drugs available in-game. And I think you are right with more bad guys rather than trying to arms race the players and build uber NPCs.

I was actually thinking of using the Missions model, which means a little more work for me. But I could ask everyone what thier Rep was before we started, average that and have 4 or 5 different rankings for the opposition. Like 0-20 gets the two gangers with light pistols who run off when they take stun 20-40 its double that and they have armor/shotguns 40-80 its gangers with shotguns and a combat mage with a spirit, 80-100 they get the whole gang on bikes plus the mage 100+ And one of the gangers is a rigger with drones...

Thanks for the inspiration guys. I think this might solve the problem. I can see applying that model to all my runs really, cause the ones with 100 Rep should have the skills and experience to know how to handle the tougher cases. I even think I know how to make it fair and thats by increasing the Karma and Payout.

Any other thoughts?

Yep. They will die like flies.
If the character has skills and attributes to handle that kind of combat, good.
If he does not, a player with that rep should have the skill to decide when to run for it to survive.
I think they probably won't suspect something like this and will drop left and right ^^

Absolutety correct sir. And its not like I'm not going to up the payoff.
I firmly believe the reward on a run should totally match the risk if not be slightly better due to the fact that what the runners are doing is in most cases illegal at least and immoral at best.

Also, if any of you are interested in getting in on a run / watching them fail
Go download a copy of mushclient
Put www.seattle2064.net in the host slot
Port 4000 in the port
The game will prompt for name, race (please no more Night Ones), and then you just go through chargen.
Unlike TT none of your chargen cash goes with you and yes it's the old priority system
Magic is wonky so be careful if you make a mage.
I do runs about every other day or so and I'm Murphy there as well.
Hope to see some of ya

Seeing how this is SR3, i will be giving it a try! ^^

Well, you know it's about SR3 when the owner of the MUD goes, "The magic, it's wonky"

...out of interest, how wonky?

Ta,

-Tir.


Gak! Priority! ....What am I reading, I don't even...
T.

First, not the owner. Second, yes, code magic is wonky but if you have a mage on my runs, you get to use all of you abilities. Third, yes its Priority System. While I like point buy myself, I don't play the MUD to build min max characters, I use it to run fun missions.

This reminds me of my Seattle/Detroit MUX days.

IIRC (and IMO), the SR3 Priority system encouraged min-maxing more than the BP system.

Well, the Priorities System opened up the whole can of worms with edges and flaws to be taken . . .
Which did not work all that well with the priority system . .
But in Priority System, you could build a human Adept with one million ressources . . or a full mage with 650k.
This is not that easy in the points system, so they are both a bit open to abuse. Points does away with magic and high ressources mostly.
But it is more flexible because of you being able to more finely tune where you want to spend how many points in terms of skills and attributes.

Edit portion here: Murphy. I know that you're probably a stellar administrator over there, but your head staffer insulted a new player as if it was the thing to do. I get it, it's his/her game, but to treat new players like that to me is just unprofessional.

This is a log of something that just went down on the Seattle 2064 MUD. My name is Daiden on there. Their 'head administrator' decided to act accordingly and I guess call my bluff? I have no clue. Anyway, I felt I should post this on here and on the Shadowrun4 forums so people are aware of what they are about to step in to. Yeah, I might have been out of line, but really? Insulting a new player (Madison) is uncalled for. Me myself? I made my own bed.

Madison |]newbie[| how do i iniate a call on my phone

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Madison |]newbie[| help phone doesnt say how to make a call

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Someone |]newbie[| Here's a crazy thought. Help phone.

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Leon |]newbie[| 'help phone'

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Daiden |]newbie[| Give me a second, I am in the newbie area. I think it was here.

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Someone |]newbie[| Hah. She's actually right
Leon |]newbie[| That is an interesting oversight.

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Someone |]newbie[| I guess common sense just fails people sometimes. Try 'call'.

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Leon |]newbie[| Yeah it's 'call phonenumber'
Madison |]newbie[| thanks i guess

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Madison |]newbie[| ya know rude sarcasam is not called for when people ask legitimate questions

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Daiden |]newbie[| In order to draw attention to the game and promote a friendly atmosphere, I'd think people would attempt to not discuss common sense or the lack there of concerning new players.

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Someone |]newbie[| Fine, you're offended by my sarcasm. Fuck off, move on.

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Daiden |]newbie[| Yay for intollerant asses on the NEWBIE channel.
Someone |]newbie[| A quick way to get yourself removed from the game is to insult those who run it. Especially after being told to move on.

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Madison |]newbie[| i dont even know how to respond to that....maybe you are the reason the player base is so low

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Daiden |]newbie[| Sounds good to me. I'll just be sure to email the head administrator. Can I get your name? I'm also posting this log on forums.dumpshock.com so that everyone knows about your attitude toward new players.
Someone |]newbie[| It's got nothing to do with new players. It's entirely about attitude and intelligence. I don't coddle people. Nobody is flawless, and Madison is right - the helpfile is lacking. I'll be fixing that shortly. On the other hand, you can also list all commands and a little experimentation would have resulted in success. I won't apologizing for not having polished the silver spoon to feed you with.
Madison |]newbie[| thank you Daiden
Daiden |]newbie[| No problem, Madison. "Someone," I'm perfectly okay with the lack of help files. I've run games in the past and I know that above all else, Helpfiles are a huge pain in the ass. Despite thise, the way you have just handled yourself is completely out of line. If you want to call it sarcasm, that is fine by me. But you are a staff member and this is a newbie channel. People will ask questions on here in order to get helpful information, not be treated as if they are stupid for not trying out every single command that they can think of in order to perform a function within the game.
Madison |]newbie[| notice someone refused to give their name
Hadrian |]newbie[| Hey, here's a thought. I'm the head admin.
Daiden |]newbie[| That really sucks for you then.

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Hadrian |]newbie[| Actually, I'm very content with things, as are most people. This is not a public forum, your views on how things should be done are fine - but they are yours, they have no impact here.
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Daiden |]newbie[| You don't think the way you conducted yourself on the newbie channel will have any impact here?
Hadrian |]newbie[| According to the data I have at hand, Daiden, you've been here a week and haven't managed to make it through character creation. As there isn't that much in there to truly do, I can only assume your primary intent here is to troll and be annoying, which you have excelled at over the last seven days. Do you have anything actually constructive to offer, or do you think the phantom bogeyman of a log on a site I have nothing to do with in some way bothers me?

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Madison |]newbie[| be that as it may you are very very hatefull to newbies. Why?

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Hadrian |]newbie[| I haven't been remotely hateful to newbies. You are inferring things that do not exist.

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Daiden |]newbie[| Actually, I work 60+ hours a week and was out of internet communcation for much of this past weekend. I also take my time when creating a character because I want to get it right. I am also not familiar with my 3rd edition Shadowrunning, so this is actually taking me some time. Feel free to check earlier logs to see if I've ever trolled before now.

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Madison |]newbie[| i understand reading emotions in text is difficult, but just so you know, you are coming across as hatefull and sarcastic. Do you not want new players?

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[Tracy] (OOC), "Ohhhhhhhh, man"

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Hadrian |]newbie[| Madison, if you truly wish to discuss my philosophy or mentality on things, we can do that sometime, but not on the newbie channel, where it is patently not appropriate.
Madison |]newbie[| thats reasonable
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Hadrian |]newbie[| In any event, my core staff has the utmost of my trust, and I've never seen them do or say anything to sway that. If you don't like me, or even them, then that is certainly how you have opted to feel about things. We all have MUDmail, and e-mail addresses available for personal grievance.

Real quick. Not an admin or staffer, I just like the MUD and having the ability to play a rough version of TT Shadowrun with a different group of people any time I choose to jump on. I've PM'd Golgoth on The Other Forum to address his concerns in my limited capacity.
Also, Hadrian can be harsh but then again if you have to answer the same questions over and over and over...

Just my two 'yen on the topic

I'm in the process of trying this out, I have to say, these guys ARE a sour bunch.

Alright, did anyone else join? I'm particularly interested in some Europeans I could run with at European times.

That, and Murphy, can I ask you about any other auto-johnsons? The two I know (training and Dante's) don't keep offerring, and it seems tedious to run through town just looking for J's.

i try but i don't get through char gen due to work x.x

I have to say Chargen is super-tedious, because you have to run around all the time.

One piece of advice, if you haven't done it yet: Unless you're playing a Rigger you probably won't need the Mil. There isn't enough ware to spend money on for a sammy, unless you go the super-essensive intensive route of reaction enhancement.

I try to do a simultanous creation in NSRCG3 and the MUD, but it does not really work out for me <.<

They just don't have everything in the MUD. What were you looking to build?

And the numbers of the stuff that are in there somehow don't add up like they do in the NSRCG either for whatever reason . .

I was trying to build a Giant Samurai. Hence my recent posting about the lifting and weight issue, because the MUD made my Character at 3.46m or so 1028kilos heavy . . .

hehe, well... you can customize your weight a bit later, however, you are limited to "light", "average" and "large", which are all random values.

I'm not sure cars have weight limits or size mods, so I'm not sure this will ever matter.

*shrugs*
more than one ton of living weight and the wonky lifting rules . .

You can ask about auto-johnsons on the radio on the IC terminals or if you find me logged in, come find me IC and I'll take you around.

I'll do that, actually I found a few more on my own now. So my characer is now a contract killer for peanuts... 5000nY, yay .

Another question, do I have to find trainers in the game to train me, or should I go back into the training area through the "chute"?

And finally: Outside of runs, are there any NPCs you can actually communicate with? I mean are there other trigger words except "job"?

The other trigger words are ,practice' and 'list'.
You can't raise your skills until after 27 TKE and then its IG trainers which you can ask people about ICly a couple are pretty obvious.

Thanks.

Alright, attributes are also stuck? That's sort of disappointing, but... well, you can get good enough at chargen.

I'm only asking all these things becuase it's actually really bad roleplaying to have to ask some of these thigns IC: You've been living in the world, maybe not in the shadows, for a while, so you should know how many things work.

By the way: is the game experiencing problems right now, or is it just running from a guy's home computer and not online all the time?

You can raise attributes by contacting the Imms. It was done that way to limit super twinked out characters. I don't mind answering any questions you have. Also, if the mud crashed, the last time it did it was someone messing around with magic.

Yeh, I heeded the warning and did not try making a mage... and as far as I can tell the game is offline right now.

Well, thanks, anyway. Now I just still have to find some people that will play at European times...

No bows either it seems.

You can take projectile weapons as a skill for player runs and Imm runs, but just like grenades, they aren't supported in code yet. Actually, grenades aren't supported in code because I figure the admins didn't want a MUD full of random jackasses running around lobbing them at everything.

try dru.kicks-ass.net as the host. the seattle2064.net host is being retarded.

Hmm, I get a Connection Refused error for that host.