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Psikerlord
As the title says - can drones have smartlinks and get +2 dice for shooting? Where are the rules for this?

Cheers!
Stahlseele
Under SR3 i'd have told you no, because smartlink is a piece of cyber-ware . .
Under SR4, it's Software basically, and eye-ware at best . . so possibly yes . .
But isn't that what clearsight/sharpshooter autosofts are there for? O.o
Seriously Mike
I'd say no.
Also, while we're at shooting from drones: what are the recoil compensation mods for mounted weapons? Because I'm a little scared by the thought of a GM Doberman ripping targets up with full auto without any penalties.
Yerameyahu
There are recoil rules in Arsenal. The 'base' rule is 'no recoil for any vehicle', but the rule people actually *use* is RC=Body.
Stahlseele
if i'm not mistaken, drones use their body stat as recoil compensation in addition to whatever recoil compensation comes from the gun itself . .
drones are basically mobile turrets/smart-plattforms/gun emplacements, you should not be surprised if they are effective at shooting stuff . . .
Seriously Mike
...One die penalty. For a full-auto hosedown. My brain just puked up a BSOD. And then there's the flying sporter rifle with a decent sensor array, thank god I didn't give it Chameleon Coating. Four-person team has a shaman/medic/face, two pistoleros, rigger/sniper, flying sniper bot and gunner doggiebot. Once things start getting killy, there will be madness beyond words involved.
Lantzer
You could include a smartlink in the camera mods for a drone, sure. It won't help the drone itself -just any rigger who hops in who isn't doing sensor-enhanced gunnery.
SpellBinder
As I recall this has been asked before and effectively answered "Yes", that drones can have a Smartlink installed in a camera and gain a +2 DB bonus when using weapons with a SmartGun.

The unresolved question, actually being, do drones also need an Image Link in that same camera or can they rely on the fact that a drone's pilot program is a matrix entity and bypass this requirement?

Now if you really wanna start getting extra gross for drones add a Gyro Link and a Fuzzy Logic module.
ShadowDragon8685
The Smartgun Link doesn't do much more than project a crosshair and give you range-finding from the gun to whatever its muzzle is in-line with.

Invaluable for a metahuman shooter, probably not all that useful to a drone, since I imagine they have that standard.



As for sicknasty drones, one of my players once told me of a 'run' he did back in the day. The group was very experienced, and they were given a tough assignment: the Johnson wanted them to make sure this other guy didn't get to a meeting. He was surrounded by bodyguards, and already on foot in the city (for some reason,) and the meeting was going to happen very soon. To make it worse, the group wasn't allowed to be seen, nor to kill him - just ensure he didn't get to make his meeting.

So they negotiated the money aspect, and made Mr. Johnson show them that he had enough cash on-hand to cover the whole beef. Then the stealth blimp-drone with the concealed, suppressed antimaterial rifle which had been stalking the guy since the Johnson gave them the target's name and whereabouts took the shot and blew the guy's leg off at the knee. They then asked for the rest of the money right then and there, because that guy wasn't going anywhere except a DocWagon trauma ward.

Easiest run ever, I imagine, and the best way to ensure the Johnson doesn't stiff you is to accept and complete the run without getting up from the negotiating table. So trust me, there are far worse things out there than a Doberman with a LMG firing nearly completely compensated.
Psikerlord
Thanks for all the replies. Yeah my basic impression was drones can't use smartlinks, but that's just coz smartlinks arent specifically listed in the arsenal list of modifications (or at least not obviously - they could be hidden away in there somewhere). I like the idea of having it for a rigger using his drone, however, that is still very handy.

As for the recoil question - Arsenal p.105 - a vehicle weapon mount grants vehicle body as recoil reduction.
SpellBinder
Smartlinks don't have to be listed in Arsenal at all. In SR4a they're listed as a vision enhancement, along with low-light, thermographic, etc. (and various other sensors & sensor mods outside of the cameras). You can install a smartlink in a camera, and that camera can be installed as a sensor in a drone or vehicle. If you go hard by the rules, you just need a rating 2 camera and include an image link as well. Just as long as you feel a drone's camera(s) can have any kind of vision enhancement available (they do IRL), a smartgun/smartlink combo is possible with full benefits.

For a jumped-in rigger to get the benefits, likely will need these to be installed in at least one camera in the same drone as well.
Brainpiercing7.62mm
QUOTE (SpellBinder @ Feb 5 2012, 06:47 AM) *
Smartlinks don't have to be listed in Arsenal at all. In SR4a they're listed as a vision enhancement, along with low-light, thermographic, etc. (and various other sensors & sensor mods outside of the cameras). You can install a smartlink in a camera, and that camera can be installed as a sensor in a drone or vehicle. If you go hard by the rules, you just need a rating 2 camera and include an image link as well. Just as long as you feel a drone's camera(s) can have any kind of vision enhancement available (they do IRL), a smartgun/smartlink combo is possible with full benefits.

For a jumped-in rigger to get the benefits, likely will need these to be installed in at least one camera in the same drone as well.


I would tend to agree to this. Generally a smartlinked weapon does more than just a dumb weapon - because smartlink includes a ballistics processor, etc. So the +2 dice are completely valid.
Modular Man
I don't think two dice will be a huge balancing issue anyway.
On a side note: To be used in a weapon mount a gun has to be a Smartgun... and upgrading sensors is probably one of the easier ways for a rigger to make a drone better.
QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685 @ Feb 5 2012, 04:06 AM) *
As for sicknasty drones [...]

You just had me watch a certain scene from "Smokin' Aces" again... and there I thought I was done with the idea smile.gif Well, I may not do sniper in fear of the GM also doing so... maybe. Or maybe not, and then demand a straight line of vision for the sniper each time... question.gif
Psikerlord
haha that smokin aces sniper scene is awesome.

Ah hell seems like in sr4A smartlink is basically software which yeah can go in a drone's camera ... guess that makes them even more deadly and even better counterpoint to magic. Hmm yes overall I like this.
Lansdren
I'm going with a yes on this one, its a mod for the camera so apart from upping the price and maybe the avaliability it makes sense from where I'm sitting. The smartlink also gives out data on the heat of the weapon, ammo usage and other general data on the weapon which would make a lot of sense for wanting it on a drone as you can see the current status of the gun at all times.
Udoshi
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 4 2012, 03:49 PM) *
if i'm not mistaken, drones use their body stat as recoil compensation in addition to whatever recoil compensation comes from the gun itself .


It is the most common houserule. Body = RC for vehicles is in arsenal.
The alternative is that vehicles never suffer recoil at all.

QUOTE (Lantzer @ Feb 4 2012, 07:00 PM) *
You could include a smartlink in the camera mods for a drone, sure. It won't help the drone itself -just any rigger who hops in who isn't doing sensor-enhanced gunnery.

Note that under dumbass 4a rules you do need an image link in that camera, which is just wasted space with the stupid capacity rules not being updated.
Previously cameras were unrated and had unlimited accessories - the imagelink required for a smartlink was just money, not an opportunity cost.
Lansdren
@Udoshi

Because a camera with unlimited space inside it is not at all stupid in comparison to having a actual limit to how much can be crammed into one peice of electronics.
Dakka Dakka
On a camera I can understand the requirement for an image link or glasses but on cyberware? What difference does it make whether the smartlink projects the red dot into the (possibly natural) eye or into the user's brain. It must have a DNI anyway.
Modular Man
All Eyeware comes with a built-in image link.
Dakka Dakka
No, Cybereyes come with a camera and image link, but a smartlink can also be installed in a natural eye. If you do this, by RAW you have to install an image link as well. silly.gif
Stahlseele
Hardware Smartlink comes with Image-Link i'd say.
Seeing how it's otherwise perfectly fine as Software only, how'd you explain the Essence Cost otherwise?
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Stahlseele @ Feb 6 2012, 01:33 PM) *
Seeing how it's otherwise perfectly fine as Software only, how'd you explain the Essence Cost otherwise?
Where is the software only Smartlink? The only thing I remember is the Complex Form and Technomancers do have "hardware". The Smartlink (whether gear or ware) is a processor dedicated to performing ballistics calculations. Putting something like that into your eye merits the loss of essence.
Stahlseele
Yeah, the complex form. That's what i meant.
It's a kind of Software. And all said and done, Smartlink is a glorified math-spu with some fancy extras like telling you whom not to shoot with the right add-on and it lets you throw out spent clips . .
Udoshi
QUOTE (Lansdren @ Feb 6 2012, 02:28 AM) *
@Udoshi

Because a camera with unlimited space inside it is not at all stupid in comparison to having a actual limit to how much can be crammed into one peice of electronics.


It isn't when you compare how much crap you can fit inside a cybereye.

Cybereyes are basically better in every way than cameras.

Its come up among our group when discussing cyborgs before. Like, seriously, compare the two: cameras basically get shafted on the stuff that can go in them.
Stahlseele
Otherwise, everybody would run around with 2 Smart-Plattforms with Guns with Cameras strapped to them on their shoulders, linked to their PAN and Glasses/Contact-Lenses via WiFi for no Essence-Cost at all. There has to be a REASON to get Eyeware . .
Dakka Dakka
Actually there is no need for eyeware. If you take contact lenses and glasses/goggles, you should have more than enough capacity.
Modular Man
Thanks for the correction. I meant cybereyes.
Psikerlord
Cyberware smartlink lets you change out ammo for a free action via the DNI. I don't think smartlink glasses let you do that. That's at least one major advantage.
SpellBinder
Just add a set of trodes to your PAN in that, Psikerlord. There's your DNI for 50 nuyen and no essence cost.

And I've also long allowed characters to stack contact lenses with another set of eyeware, like glasses, as long as the installed mods in the two made sense. Heck, you could even go all out with a set of [natural looking] cyber eyes, contact lenses, and goggles for probably more gear mods than you'll know what to do with.
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Psikerlord @ Feb 6 2012, 08:55 PM) *
Cyberware smartlink lets you change out ammo for a free action via the DNI. I don't think smartlink glasses let you do that. That's at least one major advantage.
While you may find reasons to disallow it, by RAW both can do all that stuff.
Yerameyahu
Yup. You can control things with eye movements, etc. I'll still take the nice, easy, perfect trodes. smile.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 6 2012, 04:17 PM) *
Yup. You can control things with eye movements, etc. I'll still take the nice, easy, perfect trodes. smile.gif


Naah... Give me the Higher Fidelity of a Datajack Everytime. Trodes are for wannabes. smile.gif
Yerameyahu
Like an audiophile, you're only imagining there's any higher fidelity. I wish the datajacks were sold with 3000 monster cables. biggrin.gif
Tymeaus Jalynsfein
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 6 2012, 04:36 PM) *
Like an audiophile, you're only imagining there's any higher fidelity. I wish the datajacks were sold with 3000 monster cables. biggrin.gif


Heheheh... That would ROCK... biggrin.gif
CanRay
QUOTE (Yerameyahu @ Feb 6 2012, 07:36 PM) *
Like an audiophile, you're only imagining there's any higher fidelity. I wish the datajacks were sold with 3000 monster cables. biggrin.gif
Who says there isn't?

If there's a market dumb enough to buy it and rich enough to afford it...
Udoshi
QUOTE (Dakka Dakka @ Feb 6 2012, 04:15 PM) *
While you may find reasons to disallow it, by RAW both can do all that stuff.


Negatory. Manual control is pretty much way worse than DNI. (unwired)

Its the reason why skinlink+trodes are so popular.

CanRay
Datajacks are still better. Why? Because you have a PLUG IN YOUR HEAD!

The way Cyberpunk is supposed to be. nyahnyah.gif
Psikerlord
hear hear!
Dakka Dakka
QUOTE (Udoshi @ Feb 7 2012, 05:08 AM) *
Negatory. Manual control is pretty much way worse than DNI. (unwired)

Its the reason why skinlink+trodes are so popular.
Yes, manual control is worse than other forms of control, but you do not need a DNI in this case. The switch from simple to free action for various things you can do with a gun, requires a smartgun and a smartlink. There is no rule that this is not possible with just a smartlink in a pair of glasses.
You can find various reasons why this should or should not work, but RAW is clear on that.
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