Reading through the sourcebooks (always great when at work and trying not to swallow your tongue out of boredom) I've only just read the thing saying, "This spell can also affect a vehicle's Signature Rating; every 2 net successes can be used to raise or lower the Sig by 1, to a maximum modifier of the spell's force."
So...casting a force 5 Vehicle mask and with exploding dice, I could get +/-5 Sig?
If so, the rigger's going to be cosying up to the mages...who only before used the spell as a quick "Let's look like Lonestar and do a drive-by" disguise.
Hmm, ok, it's not as overpoweringly awful as I thought - Spells need LOS, so the invisible wardrone O'death isn't going to be flying out anytime soon. But in a pinch, a lightweight mage could use the old Rotodrone escape clause and laugh at anyone trying to lock on with sensor checks.
Note: must make Rotordrone resemble an umbrella.
-Tir
(Yeah, I know it's likely to have been covered a decade ago in the archives, but that place is spooky and smells funny...)
Full Version: Another SR3 question - Vehicle Mask
QUOTE (Tiralee @ Feb 11 2012, 06:35 AM) 
So...casting a force 5 Vehicle mask and with exploding dice, I could get +/-5 Sig?
It's late and I'm pretty dumb, so help a brother out: how are exploding dice going to get you the requisite 10 net successes?
Ah, it might be a houserule, but we thought it was reasonably cannon (since the bad guys get it as well) but we allow another success for 6 past the TN.
So if you manage to roll a 13, TN 6, that's 2 successes.
-Tir.
(Nothing pisses a player off more than his armoured death machine hit with D stun from a lowly ganger firing from ambush)
So if you manage to roll a 13, TN 6, that's 2 successes.
-Tir.
(Nothing pisses a player off more than his armoured death machine hit with D stun from a lowly ganger firing from ambush)
Two things that caught my eye.
1. Exploding dice: As we are talking SR3 here, exploding dice is a houserule. However you can get your 10 successes by rolling Sorcery plus Spell Pool. This is generally 6 + 6 for characters straight out of chargen, but with a karma reroll it's certainly possible to get 10 successes.
2. LOS and sustaining spells: AFAIK, the mage only needs LOS to cast the spell and can sustain it even if they then lose the LOS to the target. For example Karl Kombatmage casts Improved Invisibility on his runner chum Neal the Ork. Karl stays in the car while Neal goes enters the building to kidnap their target. Once Neal enters the building, LOS is lost but Karl can still maintain the spell. I admit that preventing the invisible flying drone of death is a good thing, but this spells doesn't make it invisible at all. "The vehicle must be masked to look like another vehicle of the same approximate size (body)". Yes, the radar and sensors on the drones won't lock on very easily, but it makes just as much noise and is just as obvious to any Metahuman guards. Drones being actively rigged also bypass the "Sensor Enhanced Gunnery" rules, it's only drones not directly rigged that will be unable to shoot it.
Vehicle mask is a useful spell, and it makes drones harder to see with sensors, but only with sensors. Sight and Sound are unchanged, and I've always thought of most larger Rotor Drones and especially Vector Thrust Drones as being fairly noisy. As always, YMMV and have fun.
1. Exploding dice: As we are talking SR3 here, exploding dice is a houserule. However you can get your 10 successes by rolling Sorcery plus Spell Pool. This is generally 6 + 6 for characters straight out of chargen, but with a karma reroll it's certainly possible to get 10 successes.
2. LOS and sustaining spells: AFAIK, the mage only needs LOS to cast the spell and can sustain it even if they then lose the LOS to the target. For example Karl Kombatmage casts Improved Invisibility on his runner chum Neal the Ork. Karl stays in the car while Neal goes enters the building to kidnap their target. Once Neal enters the building, LOS is lost but Karl can still maintain the spell. I admit that preventing the invisible flying drone of death is a good thing, but this spells doesn't make it invisible at all. "The vehicle must be masked to look like another vehicle of the same approximate size (body)". Yes, the radar and sensors on the drones won't lock on very easily, but it makes just as much noise and is just as obvious to any Metahuman guards. Drones being actively rigged also bypass the "Sensor Enhanced Gunnery" rules, it's only drones not directly rigged that will be unable to shoot it.
Vehicle mask is a useful spell, and it makes drones harder to see with sensors, but only with sensors. Sight and Sound are unchanged, and I've always thought of most larger Rotor Drones and especially Vector Thrust Drones as being fairly noisy. As always, YMMV and have fun.
Easily fixed with Improved Invisibility and Silence on it. Course now you are sustaining 3 spells...
QUOTE (Tiralee @ Feb 11 2012, 07:38 AM)
Ah, it might be a houserule, but we thought it was reasonably cannon (since the bad guys get it as well) but we allow another success for 6 past the TN.
So if you manage to roll a 13, TN 6, that's 2 successes.
So if you manage to roll a 13, TN 6, that's 2 successes.
Yeah, pretty sure that's a house rule, but whatever: sounds like a cool one to me.
QUOTE (ntwi @ Feb 11 2012, 05:38 PM)
2. LOS and sustaining spells: AFAIK, the mage only needs LOS to cast the spell and can sustain it even if they then lose the LOS to the target.
Yeah, I wasn't sure about this, so I did some leafing and I'm pretty sure that's exactly right: you can sustain a spell even after you lose LOS. Does anyone have anything that contradicts or confirms this? I'd love to know for sure.
The LOS requirement for casting but not sustaining is in the story on page 16 SR3.
Summary: Dwarf shaman peeked over the edge of the truck, cast invis an then moved back, breaking LOS while sustaining the spell.
QUOTE
He gave Flash and me a thumbs-up sign, waggled his fingers at us as he did his magic stuff, then popped out of sight. I’d expected to feel different with the invisibility spell on me, but I didn’t. Me and Flash wedged ourselves on either side of the truck’s rear hatch, with me hoping to Ghost that the spell hadn’t crapped out. Now it was finger-crossing time; if none of the perimeter guards raised a shout, we’d know Biggs’ magic was working. Just in case it wasn’t, I held my SMG ready to swing up and fire; I heard Flash unsnap the holster of her Colt Manhunter.
The supply truck bounced through the perimeter gate and into the yard. I could see the tattered ends of a cut blue ribbon dangling from each gate-side. Almost made me feel sorry for all the corp bigwigs we were about to inconvenience. They’d looked so proud of their shiny new fusion plant at the dedication ceremony, which had been on the trid just last night. And now we weren’t going to let them enjoy their new toy.
The truck bounced into the loading dock. As it came to a halt, I hit the floor and rolled underneath. Flash did too, so fast that we bumped shoulders. Biggs, according to plan, was lying flat on top of the truck and doing his damnedest to look like part of it.
The supply truck bounced through the perimeter gate and into the yard. I could see the tattered ends of a cut blue ribbon dangling from each gate-side. Almost made me feel sorry for all the corp bigwigs we were about to inconvenience. They’d looked so proud of their shiny new fusion plant at the dedication ceremony, which had been on the trid just last night. And now we weren’t going to let them enjoy their new toy.
The truck bounced into the loading dock. As it came to a halt, I hit the floor and rolled underneath. Flash did too, so fast that we bumped shoulders. Biggs, according to plan, was lying flat on top of the truck and doing his damnedest to look like part of it.
Summary: Dwarf shaman peeked over the edge of the truck, cast invis an then moved back, breaking LOS while sustaining the spell.
Re: dice.
If you use NSRCG for SR3 character gen (Which, frankly, is the only way to fly, thank you McMackie.) the included diceroller (another lovely touch) has in the Shortcuts->About & Options section the relevant panel. As we use it (the rule) for all relevant rolls, it's pretty fair. (and gives that bit more danger back to the situations, without overwhelming things)
Oh, and our karma pools are mainly for hand-of-god rerolls, once it's gone, it's gone:)
I've read that bit of fiction ~ 300 times, and never made the connection. I always assumed (and we've always played) sustain = LOS... Duh us.
Yeah, the invis rotordrone-o-doom would need multiple sustained spells but that was simply something I'd discourage my players from trying to do. The opposing forces though, I have no hesitation to include that in their little bag of evil tricks.
And mainly, was more fascinated that the ability to drop or increase the Sig of a vehicle, along with making it look different.
Stealth dodge scoot, away!
-Tir.
If you use NSRCG for SR3 character gen (Which, frankly, is the only way to fly, thank you McMackie.) the included diceroller (another lovely touch) has in the Shortcuts->About & Options section the relevant panel. As we use it (the rule) for all relevant rolls, it's pretty fair. (and gives that bit more danger back to the situations, without overwhelming things)
Oh, and our karma pools are mainly for hand-of-god rerolls, once it's gone, it's gone:)
I've read that bit of fiction ~ 300 times, and never made the connection. I always assumed (and we've always played) sustain = LOS... Duh us.
Yeah, the invis rotordrone-o-doom would need multiple sustained spells but that was simply something I'd discourage my players from trying to do. The opposing forces though, I have no hesitation to include that in their little bag of evil tricks.
And mainly, was more fascinated that the ability to drop or increase the Sig of a vehicle, along with making it look different.
Stealth dodge scoot, away!
-Tir.
QUOTE (ntwi @ Feb 12 2012, 02:39 AM)
The LOS requirement for casting but not sustaining is in the story on page 16 SR3.
Nice! Don't get me wrong, I'd love a rule-rule, but I'll take what I can get!
QUOTE (Tiralee @ Feb 12 2012, 04:08 AM)
And mainly, was more fascinated that the ability to drop or increase the Sig of a vehicle, along with making it look different.
And 5* more Signature - however you get it!
- is a pretty huge deal. When you look at the money you'd need to spend to push most custom stealth-drones another 5 Signature, that's serious value-for-money. It'd be serious value-for-money even if you put in the investment to have it Quickened, which there's no reason you shouldn't be able to do, right?That said, logically that bonus probably shouldn't be available in certain circumstances, but SR taken that granularly falls apart anyway.
*Or 12 more; Force 5 is arbitrary here. This could get...messy.
It's unlikely to get to +12 messy because each +1 takes 2 net successes. If a mage with sorcery 8, spell pool 8 and a force 8 elemental for aid (24 dice total) used karma rerolls until every die was a success, then yes, you could get a +12 signature on the drone... But thats some serious effort for a sustained spell, not to mention that it would be physical drain, and the TN to learn that Force 12 spell would have a TN of 24.
All things considered, if they spend that much time and effort to learn a force 12 spell, let them. Then have a patrolling air elemental smash the astrally active drone with it's Psychokinesis power, or use "Accident" on it or any number of other things as the "stealthy" drone now glows like a beacon on the astral.
All things considered, if they spend that much time and effort to learn a force 12 spell, let them. Then have a patrolling air elemental smash the astrally active drone with it's Psychokinesis power, or use "Accident" on it or any number of other things as the "stealthy" drone now glows like a beacon on the astral.
The "Air elemental" or "Storm Spirit" detection system does make this an interesting exercise in brinksmanship - I'm hoping the players don't cotton on to the perfect Scissors for the OPFOR's Paper.
-Tir.
-Tir.
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